Pulsing/droning vibration at highway speeds

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Adjustable lower arms won't really change the diff angle much; not enough to effectively correct the pinion angle: the adjustable RLCA are mainly for positioning the axle forward or rearward. The adjustable upper rear control arms will have the greatest impact on pointing the diff up or down and require much less adjustment range to achieve measurable pinion movement. Your goal is 1~ 3 degrees of offset between the output flange and the diff flange ( like this /---/ ) . Ideally 1 degree is optimal; that is 1 degree difference: for example if output flange at TC is 1.5 degrees down, then the diff flange should be pointing UP 2.5 degrees (2.5-1.5 = difference of 1 degree)- this would require lengthening the rear upper control arms to achieve getting the pinion to point upward. Anything more or less than 1~degrees puts more stress & wear on the ujoints and will present vibes at various speeds.

Having adjustable upper & lower arms together is best option to dial in your driveline. As you lift the rear end the axle can shift where one wheel is slightly more forward than the other and also lifting the rear will point the pinion downward. (The axle also shifts to one side affecting thrust angle but thats another mod with rear adjustable panhard).Anyway, if both the TC output flange and the pinion flange are pointing downward ( /----\ ) then you'll start getting a growl, vibration etc. The Toyota ujoints are pretty forgiving, but on older drivelines you'll notice the misalignment is more pronounced. I'd recommend the "on vehicle" adjustable uppers that TT makes which are adjustable while connected to the truck, vs. the remove, adjust and reinstall type. It's much easier to adjust them while connected to the driveline- no removal required.
Honestly, at this point, I think I'm going to adjust the AHC sensors to bring it a bit lower and see if I can get the vibration to go away with height changes. If I can, then I might sink some money into upper links. I'm north of $1000 chasing this issue and have nothing to show for it; I'm not keen to spend much more throwing parts at it.

Edit: Just did more reading and damn is this a frustrating subject. I think it's possible that my lack of rake is a contributor to the problem as well, as that changes the pitch angle of the driveline too. Guess I get to spend saturday adjusting links and AHC to see if I can solve this and/or get a better idea of what needs to be done to solve this. Thanks for the input!
 
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Honestly, at this point, I think I'm going to adjust the AHC sensors to bring it a bit lower and see if I can get the vibration to go away with height changes. If I can, then I might sink some money into upper links. I'm north of $1000 chasing this issue and have nothing to show for it; I'm not keen to spend much more throwing parts at it.

Edit: Just did more reading and damn is this a frustrating subject. I think it's possible that my lack of rake is a contributor to the problem as well, as that changes the pitch angle of the driveline too. Guess I get to spend saturday adjusting links and AHC to see if I can solve this and/or get a better idea of what needs to be done to solve this. Thanks for the input!
I bookmarked this post for future use. It has the rear lca, uca and panhard bar oem bushing part numbers.

 
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So, I finally got off my lazy ass and used my phone to measure the angles. I get the transfer case at 2.9 degrees down (top back), and the pinion tilted 0.2 degrees up (top back), for a total angle of 2.7 degrees at rest. I really really hope this is the problem, and will do my best to get that to about 1 degree this weekend and report back. I'm hoping the lower links will have that much adjustment in them at least.
 

abuck99

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2.7 should still be ok. Have you checked run out on the following:

Pinion flange
Rear brake rotors
Prop shaft

Have you read through the diagnosis list in post #101?
 
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2.7 should still be ok. Have you checked run out on the following:

Pinion flange
Rear brake rotors
Prop shaft

Have you read through the diagnosis list in post #101?
Have read through the list in post 101, super helpful! Seems like lateral runout or driveshaft and yolk are most likely problems by that table. I don't have tools to do run out on anything, but have a new balanced rear shaft and can say the vibration goes away when the rear shaft is out.
 

atnolan94

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Thread resurrection. I've got an annoying vibration in the 60-80 mph range (yeah, exactly where I cruise on the highway). Below that it's not noticeable, and it goes back to smooth above 80, but I rarely go that fast. I plan to pull the front shaft, then rear shaft this weekend to see if i can narrow the problem again. I haven't tried that since I replaced both shafts but didn't banish this problem. I haven't looked for the weight thingy to be honest, but his isn't really an audible issue, but it's definitely felt. So far I've:

* Pulled both front and rear shafts multiple times to determine where the vibration was coming from. Originally, the truck drove completely smooth with the rear shaft removed, so I concluded that my rear joints were the issue.
* Replaced rear shaft ujoints; terrible idea. Was the most difficult ujoint replacement I've ever done and it made everything worse.
* Replaced the rear shaft with new oem. Large improvement over the shaft I replaced the joints in, but still there
* Replaced the front shaft with new oem. No change.
* Had the new OEM rear shaft re-balanced by a local shop. No change.
* Had wheels re-balanced multiple times - rims are straight and wheels balance out fine on a roadforce machine. Fixed balance issues but not driveline vibration.

The vibration isn't terrible, but it is annoying. I've kinda learned to live with it, but it still frustrates me. Those of you who went through this same sort of narrowing down the problem: did you ever work it out? Is there 'one neat trick' that hasn't been talked about in this thread already?

Other possibly pertinent info: running 33" all terrains, 1-1.5" AHC lift, no armor, roughly OEM weight. Issue was present before new tires and lift. Tires are in near perfect condition, alignment was done after lift. New CV axles went in about a year ago - A1 Cardone Select axles. Problem definitely appears to be from the rear end but you never know.
What was so hard about the U joint replacement? Mine are toast and I need to do them.
 
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How about cv joints instead of u joints on that drive shaft?
I looked for anyone building a CV drive shaft for the 100. I found some companies that built a double cardan joint, but nothing with a CV joint like in a normal CV axle. I'm sure I could get it custom made, but that can't be cheap.

What was so hard about the U joint replacement? Mine are toast and I need to do them.
Pressing them out was a pain, lots of hammering (I don't have a press). You have to hammer it out one side, remove the cap, then hammer it all the way through to the other side to get the other cap off. The circlips are on the inside of the joints which makes them a bit more difficult to get in and out. The end caps have to be pressed into the yoke while the main body of the joint is inside the yoke; you can't press one side part way in then install the body, there's not enough room. Centering them is a pain because if you push it slightly too far to one side, you bind the joint just enough to cause issues. You can't just put in a circlip then push the joint up against it. Meanwhile, all the needle bearings are trying to fall out.

After everything I went through with the first attempt at these, I'd probably be okay to do it again now, but I'd definitely want a hydraulic press with the right size fittings before I'd try it again. Or, I'd just replace the whole rear shaft; it's not stupid expensive, and replacement takes a whole fifteen minutes. Front shaft didn't cause issues, mainly because the shaft sits mostly level already - lack of angle makes everything better. I replaced it anyway chasing this vibration and it made no difference...so now I've got a spare front shaft.
 

atnolan94

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Pressing them out was a pain, lots of hammering (I don't have a press). You have to hammer it out one side, remove the cap, then hammer it all the way through to the other side to get the other cap off. The circlips are on the inside of the joints which makes them a bit more difficult to get in and out. The end caps have to be pressed into the yoke while the main body of the joint is inside the yoke; you can't press one side part way in then install the body, there's not enough room. Centering them is a pain because if you push it slightly too far to one side, you bind the joint just enough to cause issues. You can't just put in a circlip then push the joint up against it. Meanwhile, all the needle bearings are trying to fall out.

After everything I went through with the first attempt at these, I'd probably be okay to do it again now, but I'd definitely want a hydraulic press with the right size fittings before I'd try it again. Or, I'd just replace the whole rear shaft; it's not stupid expensive, and replacement takes a whole fifteen minutes. Front shaft didn't cause issues, mainly because the shaft sits mostly level already - lack of angle makes everything better. I replaced it anyway chasing this vibration and it made no difference...so now I've got a spare front shaft.
Yeah you probably should've gotten a press, even just a ball joint press....would've made 90% of the things you described there 10x easier. Also when you install them it is ok to bind the yoke some, if you smack the yoke a couple times with a hammer it'll seat. Like I said I haven't done them on my 100 before but can't be any harder than any other u joint.

Thanks for the feedback. I paid good money to buy a press so I am glad its justified!!!
 
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Yeah you probably should've gotten a press, even just a ball joint press....would've made 90% of the things you described there 10x easier. Also when you install them it is ok to bind the yoke some, if you smack the yoke a couple times with a hammer it'll seat. Like I said I haven't done them on my 100 before but can't be any harder than any other u joint.

Thanks for the feedback. I paid good money to buy a press so I am glad its justified!!!
I've done u-joints on several others cars and trucks and this is the first time I've ever had to pull the drive shaft back out multiple times to get it right. Smacking it with a hammer to get it to unbind works but has to be done repeatedly in different locations to get it to unbind right. It's odd - one smack it get looser, next smack it get tighter. Keep going til you get it right. When I finally got it all right, I still had vibration in the driveline and needed to get the shaft rebalanced, which added another 100 dollars to the cost of the ujoints and time involved. In the end, a $350 shaft wouldn't've cost much more than I'd already spent, not to mention the time sunk in.
 

atnolan94

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I've done u-joints on several others cars and trucks and this is the first time I've ever had to pull the drive shaft back out multiple times to get it right. Smacking it with a hammer to get it to unbind works but has to be done repeatedly in different locations to get it to unbind right. It's odd - one smack it get looser, next smack it get tighter. Keep going til you get it right. When I finally got it all right, I still had vibration in the driveline and needed to get the shaft rebalanced, which added another 100 dollars to the cost of the ujoints and time involved. In the end, a $350 shaft wouldn't've cost much more than I'd already spent, not to mention the time sunk in.
What brand joints did you try? I wonder if any are better than others.
 

abuck99

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The 100 series driveline doesn't like aftermarket spiders. FWIW the Toyota OEM spiders are by far the smoothest, most durable and strongest option for the 100 series ( when combined with the factory yokes & prop shaft). I will also say that aftermarket spiders ( especially the Moog) won't provide smooth operation in your drive line. In fact- using those Moog joints is more likely the source of your problems, on top of not using the right tools and how you explained removing installing the spiders may have also caused some balance issues.

The Toyota spider install process is very deliberate as described in the FSM- and skipping steps in that process will also create opportunity for vibes. Best if you can take the propshaft to the driveline shop with your spiders and pay them to install, true and high speed balance your prop shaft.

How about cv joints instead of u joints on that drive shaft?
Driveline angles on a 100 series don't justify the use of a Double Cardan drive shaft. Best applied to rigs with high operating angles.
 
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The 100 series driveline doesn't like aftermarket spiders. FWIW the Toyota OEM spiders are by far the smoothest, most durable and strongest option for the 100 series ( when combined with the factory yokes & prop shaft). I will also say that aftermarket spiders ( especially the Moog) won't provide smooth operation in your drive line. In fact- using those Moog joints is more likely the source of your problems, on top of not using the right tools and how you explained removing installing the spiders may have also caused some balance issues.

The Toyota spider install process is very deliberate as described in the FSM- and skipping steps in that process will also create opportunity for vibes. Best if you can take the propshaft to the driveline shop with your spiders and pay them to install, true and high speed balance your prop shaft.
Agreed - changing them like any other car doesn't work out great, which is ridiculous, but just the way it is. To me, the extra cost of having a ready-to-go shaft for the 100 is worth it, over saving a relatively small amount by buying the parts and taking it to a shop. I'd be looking at 300$ ish to get it done versus 400$ to buy a new shaft and ship it to me.

Regardless, I've still got driveline vibes after new shaft and spin balance, so I'll correct the pinion angle and go from there.
 

abuck99

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I had about $105 in new OEM Toyota Ujoints for my rear propshaft and $80 to press them in, true and high speed balance the prop shaft. ( I carried the propshaft to the driveline shop for the work so no install cost) roughly $185 all in. Your $300 sounds pretty high- or was that for front & rear?
 
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Slightly less in u joints, I think 35-40 each for the moogs? I paid 100 just for the balance, assumed another 100 for the install at a local shop, for 300 ish total. No install cost as I carried it in as well. Not sure if they'd do both the install and the balance for that 100, I didn't ask. Unfortunately, they were the only shop I found within an hour of me that had a shaft balance machine.
 

atnolan94

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Slightly less in u joints, I think 35-40 each for the moogs? I paid 100 just for the balance, assumed another 100 for the install at a local shop, for 300 ish total. No install cost as I carried it in as well. Not sure if they'd do both the install and the balance for that 100, I didn't ask. Unfortunately, they were the only shop I found within an hour of me that had a shaft balance machine.
Moog U joints are like $10 on Rock Auto. I've heard people have luck with SKF which are in the $20ish range, each.

I have a personal vendetta against moog. I bought their lower control arms and they failed catastrophically in Moab, UT at a very bad time (halfway thru Hell's Revenge). That really taught me the hard way not to cheap out. I wouldn't be surprised if the moog joints are a contributing issue....
 
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Moog U joints are like $10 on Rock Auto. I've heard people have luck with SKF which are in the $20ish range, each.

I have a personal vendetta against moog. I bought their lower control arms and they failed catastrophically in Moab, UT at a very bad time (halfway thru Hell's Revenge). That really taught me the hard way not to cheap out. I wouldn't be surprised if the moog joints are a contributing issue....
Not to split hairs, but the greasable ones are closer to 17$ each, but still way less than the 35-40$ I mentioned. I swear I looked them up before posting that, but I can't find them now. It's fallen off my list of orders from rockauto, so I can't go back and get an exact number. In the end, I'm pretty sure that I finally did get them installed and smooth since the new shaft didn't fix my vibration, nor did rebalancing my new shaft.

Either way, I've never been screwed by moog equipment before, but I would also be pretty damn upset at your sort of failure at a critical point. How did you limp your way out? Just riding the bump stops?

Control arm strain is one of the reasons I plan to run AHC for as long as possible / forever. Distributes the load between the torsion bar mounts and the strut mounts.
 

atnolan94

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Not to split hairs, but the greasable ones are closer to 17$ each, but still way less than the 35-40$ I mentioned. I swear I looked them up before posting that, but I can't find them now. It's fallen off my list of orders from rockauto, so I can't go back and get an exact number. In the end, I'm pretty sure that I finally did get them installed and smooth since the new shaft didn't fix my vibration, nor did rebalancing my new shaft.

Either way, I've never been screwed by moog equipment before, but I would also be pretty damn upset at your sort of failure at a critical point. How did you limp your way out? Just riding the bump stops?

Control arm strain is one of the reasons I plan to run AHC for as long as possible / forever. Distributes the load between the torsion bar mounts and the strut mounts.
Yeah man, bump stop on DS. Destroyed my sway bar links on both sides, CV, LBJ, and my 35" cooper mud tires were contacing my fender alot....had to bend my fender out with a pry bar! The exit to hells revenge that takes you back to the highway outside the park entrance has a NASTY rock ledge around a corner. It was some of the hardest wheeling I have done and I did it on the bump stops.

I have no fear of OEM quality, especially if you get torsion bar strengthening brackets, which literally cost nothing. This is 100% a moog problem IMO. I will never buy anything from them every again unless the part is stamped 555.
 
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The 100 series driveline doesn't like aftermarket spiders. FWIW the Toyota OEM spiders are by far the smoothest, most durable and strongest option for the 100 series ( when combined with the factory yokes & prop shaft). I will also say that aftermarket spiders ( especially the Moog) won't provide smooth operation in your drive line. In fact- using those Moog joints is more likely the source of your problems, on top of not using the right tools and how you explained removing installing the spiders may have also caused some balance issues.

The Toyota spider install process is very deliberate as described in the FSM- and skipping steps in that process will also create opportunity for vibes. Best if you can take the propshaft to the driveline shop with your spiders and pay them to install, true and high speed balance your prop shaft.



Driveline angles on a 100 series don't justify the use of a Double Cardan drive shaft. Best applied to rigs with high operating angles.
Got, just a wild guess.
 
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