Knock when turning at low speeds - replaced loads already!

[SMLE]

Hi folks,

2004 100 series - I've had replaced:

• Steering Rack & track rods
• UCAs
• LCAs
• All diff bushes
• Front bearings
• CVs
• Droplink bushes

Had alignment done by a garage after.

Above were all brand new OEM parts, but now when turning on the spot or at slow speeds, e.g. below 10-15MPH, I notice a single sort of thud that I can feel in the floor.

I've had the suggestion that it could just be torsion bars, but it never had this issue before having everything replaced, so I'm keen to get this sorted out as I don't want it to cause me any more issues on new parts.

Has anyone got any suggestions of what I can check?

Thank you!

 

[Trapper50cal]

If 2004's have a center diff lock switch, cycle it a couple times to make sure it's not engaged.

 

[Mike NXP]

Does it only happen when the wheel is fully turned or do you feel it right as you begin to turn the wheel? Did you replace that stuff attempting to fix the problem or did the problem start after some repairs? When did the problem start?

The lower control arm has little stopper things on the lower backside. Mine weren't adjusted correctly at one point and now and then with wheel at full lock it would sort of contact and making a metal popping noise.

You could take a quick look under there to see if it looks like they have been getting contacted / show signs of wear. Otherwise just as guessing game for now. Maybe wheel bearing preload or something not torqued down all the way from recent repairs?

 

[Trunk Monkey]

CDL would be constant bind, not a single item. If you turn a slow circle does it repeat?

 

[Trapper50cal]

CDL would be constant bind, not a single item. If you turn a slow circle does it repeat?

But it would only be super evident while turning slowly/sharply, right?

 

[SMLE]

Does it only happen when the wheel is fully turned or do you feel it right as you begin to turn the wheel? Did you replace that stuff attempting to fix the problem or did the problem start after some repairs? When did the problem start?

The lower control arm has little stopper things on the lower backside. Mine weren't adjusted correctly at one point and now and then with wheel at full lock it would sort of contact and making a metal popping noise.

You could take a quick look under there to see if it looks like they have been getting contacted / show signs of wear. Otherwise just as guessing game for now. Maybe wheel bearing preload or something not torqued down all the way from recent repairs?

• It is a bit inconsistent, but will happen not long after turning the wheel sometimes, and other times 3/4 of the way to full lock.
• The problem started after repairs, it had everything replaced in one go as all the bushes, CVs etc were all needing replacement, and immediately got it's tracking done. I got the car back and noticed it did this but haven't yet had chance to get it looked at - plan is to in a few weeks.
• Thanks for the suggestion ref. stoppers, I'll take a look
• I've been assured everything is tight and we've had more work done since then and nothing raised, and the bearings don't have any play

 

[2000UZJ]

I just went through the exact same thing, and turns out the dealership did not tighten the cam bolts all the way. This was creating a racket upfront, so something to check.

The second thing I found, was the sway bar popping over bumps. I did not torque down the Sway bar LCA mount, causing the eyelet to bounce around a little on the bolt.

 

[SMLE]

I just went through the exact same thing, and turns out the dealership did not tighten the cam bolts all the way. This was creating a racket upfront, so something to check.

The second thing I found, was the sway bar popping over bumps. I did not torque down the Sway bar LCA mount, causing the eyelet to bounce around a little on the bolt.

Thank you, I'll check these!

 

[joshrabon]

Following.

I have a similar issue, can’t find anything loose. I’ve removed the front sway bar as well so that isn’t causing the sound.

 

[SMLE]

Right folks, an update for you.

I took the truck back to the original mechanic and then also somewhere else too who is now due to strip down the front suspension entirely, inspect and reassemble in a couple of weeks, along with replacing the injectors too.

The noise has come from the steering stops hitting the back of the wheel hubs, essentially not sitting in the 'pocket' on the back of the spindle.

I posted about it here: 100 Series - Front LCA bump stop hitting hub 'cup' incorrectly, any ideas? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/100-series-front-lca-bump-stop-hitting-hub-cup-incorrectly-any-ideas.1364952/ a couple of months ago, but still haven't figured it out.

It mainly happens when the vehicle is turning on ground which isn't level, so I assume the geometry changes and allows it to behave this way. It is such a clunk that the LCAs really twist and I'm pretty confident this is also causing stuff to loosen, it's not a good situation at all after I've spent a lot of money putting all OEM parts on this truck.

I've had alignment checked by another alignment shop who said it's all great.

I've also noted it making a clunk when changing the AHC height (can't put my finger on if its a different issue though).

Just posting here before it goes off for more work on the off-chance anyone else has any ideas?

Thank you!

 

[Mike NXP]

Right folks, an update for you.

I took the truck back to the original mechanic and then also somewhere else too who is now due to strip down the front suspension entirely, inspect and reassemble in a couple of weeks, along with replacing the injectors too.

The noise has come from the steering stops hitting the back of the wheel hubs, essentially not sitting in the 'pocket' on the back of the spindle.

I posted about it here: 100 Series - Front LCA bump stop hitting hub 'cup' incorrectly, any ideas? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/100-series-front-lca-bump-stop-hitting-hub-cup-incorrectly-any-ideas.1364952/ a couple of months ago, but still haven't figured it out.

It mainly happens when the vehicle is turning on ground which isn't level, so I assume the geometry changes and allows it to behave this way. It is such a clunk that the LCAs really twist and I'm pretty confident this is also causing stuff to loosen, it's not a good situation at all after I've spent a lot of money putting all OEM parts on this truck.

I've had alignment checked by another alignment shop who said it's all great.

I've also noted it making a clunk when changing the AHC height (can't put my finger on if its a different issue though).

Just posting here before it goes off for more work on the off-chance anyone else has any ideas?

Thank you!

Yeee, I posted this above. It drove me crazy too . Only happens at full wheel lock and hard brake or something to shift all the weight to one side.... I tried to fix it but eventually after taking it to a few truck alignment shops they all told me to just put some grease on those stops and problem solved. Seems like a band aid fix for sure but its worked ... let me know if you find a better fix

 

[2001LC]

Knuckle stops (on LCA), in just the right configuration. Could get hung-up in pocket on knuckle. Say like when in a full turn (to the stops (lock), moving/rolling on ground. The inside wheel in a turn, drops into a rut. This can result in stop locking into pocket on LCA. Lifted rigs do this alot, stock hieght rigs not so much. Lifted rigs, knuckle stops will misaligns with pocket on knuckle. Those I'll hear pop.

But if this condition was not present before control arm install. And all parts OEM, which indicates stock hieght. I'd look for two things:

• Bolts not torque to spec.
• Bolts torque, but while vehicle on lift, tire dangkleing. This is very common practice of shops. It is, fast and easy. But wrong and will reduce life of bushing.

We want all the bushing loaded, with weight of vehicle and in neutral stance. When bushing bolts torqued in. This includes:

• All control arm mounting bolts. Upper controls arm or at least one. Will very often, get torque loaded, later during alignment. Since alignment is done loaded in neutral stand on the alignment rack.
• Shock lower bolts.
• Link lower bolts.

Also make sure upper bushing of shocks, in good condition and torque down.

I find, all to often, damaged lower shock bushing and bolt. Due to being improperly torque in. Then, shock bushing and bolt must be replaced and torqued loaded. Otherwise in time, brackets on control for shock & link, get damaged.

 

[2001LC]

FWIW:

We sometimes we're finding, for unknown reason. The inner TRE becomes lock washer, unstakes. The TRE walks off (loosens) from rack. The inspection for this is:

With only the side being tested, tire off the ground. The other side on the ground. Grab the raised tire, at the 3 & 9 and wiggle it. If a knock can be felt/heard. Then, grab the boot where it is covering the inner TRE. Where TRE threads into rack (near rack). Feel for movement. If we feel movement under boot as you wiggle tire, between TRE & Rack. We then, unstake the boots clamps, and pull back boot to visually inspect TRE. Same test is used for inner TRE ball joint.

A sign, TRE is unstaked and waking off. Steering that was center. Become uncenter move off to one side, this increase the further TRE walks off. Very dangerous.

I've only seen this once in 200 inspection. First heard of, from another mud member. So that's about 1 in 100. Given the lack of reports of this. Let's call it; 1 in 10,000.

 

[SMLE]

Knuckle stops (on LCA), in just the right configuration. Could get hung-up in pocket on knuckle. Say like when in a full turn (to the stops (lock), moving/rolling on ground. The inside wheel in a turn, drops into a rut. This can result in stop locking into pocket on LCA. Lifted rigs do this alot, stock hieght rigs not so much. Lifted rigs, knuckle stops will misaligns with pocket on knuckle. Those I'll hear pop.

But if this condition was not present before control arm install. And all parts OEM, which indicates stock hieght. I'd look for two things:

• Bolts not torque to spec.
• Bolts torque, but while vehicle on lift, tire dangkleing. This is very common practice of shops. It is, fast and easy. But wrong and will reduce life of bushing.

We want all the bushing loaded, with weight of vehicle and in neutral stance. When bushing bolts torqued in. This includes:

• All control arm mounting bolts. Upper controls arm or at least one. Will very often, get torque loaded, later during alignment. Since alignment is done loaded in neutral stand on the alignment rack.
• Shock lower bolts.
• Link lower bolts.

Also make sure upper bushing of shocks, in good condition and torque down.

I find, all to often, damaged lower shock bushing and bolt. Due to being improperly torque in. Then, shock bushing and bolt must be replaced and torqued loaded. Otherwise in time, brackets on control for shock & link, get damaged.

Thank you thank you thank you!

I'm so glad you've mentioned all of this, I am almost certain there was no torquing to spec done on any of the suspension, and I even made a point of asking about ensuring the preloading was set correctly as I remember reading about it on one of your threads I think, and a video on YouTube too, but I know this wasn't done and was a real concern for me.

It sounds like this is the issue, so we shall see, I'll pass this onto the new shop who are the real deal and will be completely stripping and readdressing all this work needed.

I'll report back with an update in a few weeks!

Thanks

 

[2001LC]

Good luck.

It is the lower shock bolt, that I find make pop sound. More often than any other neutral stance bushing/bolt. With lower shock bolt, we must have weight of vehicle on them prior to torque in.

Shock and link bolts are easy to get to, for anyone. While, vehicle on the ground.

For shops with Alignment racks or any roll on rack. To loosen and re torque these LCA bolts, while vehicle in neutral stance. Isn't difficult.

For the DIY or shops without roll on rack. LCA bolts is a real PITA. Some just measure neutral position of LCA & UCA. Then place them, into a that neutral position to torque. Which I suppose is okay. But best is, with weight of vehicle on rubber bushing. To get, the most life out of them.

I use special spacer under my tires. These allow me get full swing on my 1/2" or even 3/4" torque wrench for the LCA.

Some will have issue with rear (#2) bushing bolt of LCA. They can't keep the bolt from spinning, with T-bar bracket on. I've two ways to hold the bolt. First was, I just place a crowbar on bolt head, from below. I've now have, a slim open-end wrench, fit on from above onto bolt head behind T-bar bracket.

Others argue. It's the bolt head, we must have torque wrench on. Not the 4 point serrated nut. I feel it's better have T-bar fully cranked to neutral stance. I also let the FSM be my guide. Which show torque at nut. I'd also point to other nut with even more serrations, like fan clutch 24 point.

 

[SMLE]

Good luck.

It is the lower shock bolt, that I find make pop sound. More often than any other neutral stance bushing/bolt. With lower shock bolt, we must have weight of vehicle on them prior to torque in.

Shock and link bolts are easy to get to, for anyone. While, vehicle on the ground.

For shops with Alignment racks or any roll on rack. To loosen and re torque these LCA bolts, while vehicle in neutral stance. Isn't difficult.

For the DIY or shops without roll on rack. LCA bolts is a real PITA. Some just measure neutral position of LCA & UCA. Then place them, into a that neutral position to torque. Which I suppose is okay. But best is, with weight of vehicle on rubber bushing. To get, the most life out of them.

I use special spacer under my tires. These allow me get full swing on my 1/2" or even 3/4" torque wrench for the LCA.
View attachment 3997331


Some will have issue with rear (#2) bushing bolt of LCA. They can't keep the bolt from spinning, with T-bar bracket on. I've two ways to hold the bolt. First was, I just place a crowbar on bolt head, from below. I've now have, a slim open-end wrench, fit on from above onto bolt head behind T-bar bracket.

Others argue. It's the bolt head, we must have torque wrench on. Not the 4 point serrated nut. I feel it's better have T-bar fully cranked to neutral stance. I also let the FSM be my guide. Which show torque at nut. I'd also point to other nut with even more serrations, like fan clutch 24 point.

Thanks again!

There are two things at play:
- Steering stop misalignment with the back of the hub (which I hope to be resolved by stripping out the front and reinstalling as per FSM with preloading etc)
- Popping at random times such as AHC height change (self levelling when stationary, or when I increase from N to H), or when braking hard etc.

This sounds like it's all got the symptoms of poor workmanship sadly.

I'll get some more bushes and bolts ordered just incase.

Thanks