Power Windows and Door Locks--Permanent Fix!

[dwillmo]

I am having the door panels reupholstered and I'm thinking about doing away with the individual window switches and master panel and just have four rocker switches mounted in the console (probably the Smittybilt console). Since I have no kids now and nobody ever rides with me, I'm thinking that would be workable. I'm thinking all the relays could be located under the dash somewhere. All my windows worked until the passenger control fell apart. I'm hoping just to have a single LOCK/UNLOCK switch in addition to the manual pop up locks on the doors. No switches on the doors. What's wrong with that plan?

 

[slcfj62]

That's not a bad plan. If you don't have the relays in the doors, you will be running lots of 12 or 14 gauge wires from the relays to the window motors. If you put the relays in the doors, then you would be running 18 gauge wires from the switches to the relays. It will work either way and I like the concept. Mercedes Benz does that--the window switches are in the console instead of the front doors.

EDIT: And after thinking about it for another couple of minutes, you should be able to extract the wires from the wiring loom and use those, so you probably wouldn't have to run new wires to the doors. I'm liking your plan. You'll have to do a thread on it when you are done.

 

[Bigduke6]

Found a replacement power window master switch online at Switch Doctor. Cost was around a hundred bucks. had a broken tab on the switch for the passenger window and window lock was missing/bypassed. Pass window switch kept falling out and operation on all windows was hit or miss. It is a duplicate of the original other than the brown color is off-lighter than original and the connectors are white instead of blue.

Plugged it in and replaced door panel. Pass window doesn't work right. ****! Pull panel off, find blue/white wire in wrong position after comparing to old switch, swap it into the correct slot and everything works! I need to call them and let them know about the color and the incorrect pinout, but happy it all works now. May still eventually put in the relays to reduce arcing in this switch, but nice to have it all work.

 

[bentonrover]

Well found a couple of wires cut and thought that was the proBlem. Wasn't. So I just jumped the lock out switch with a glob of soder. Everything is all good now. Slow so next step is clean and spray silicone the tracks.

 

[willflow]

Door lock mod done and all I can say is BAD ASS!!!!!!! Window relays next!

 

[bapmia]

I'm getting ready to do this mod and was wondering do I buy the standard or "heavy duty" (14 gauge) wiring harness? Thanks.

http://www.autotoys.com/x/product.php?productid=319

 

[bapmia]

I'm getting ready to do this mod and was wondering do I buy the standard or "heavy duty" (14 gauge) wiring harness? Thanks.

http://www.autotoys.com/x/product.php?productid=319

Never mind. Per slcfj62 14 gauge is recommended.

 

[deangeloni]

An easy alternative

I purchased a fj62 1988. I am no stranger to power locks and window wiring, but wow what a mess. Like previous post, the switches just wear out and a solution is to clean the switches and put relays in every door and hope the little green box doesn't burn out too.

An additional problem i had was the passenger side window would not go down using the driver side switch, but would roll down the drivers side window instead. Weird.

i traced the wire and really do not understand what the original intent was, but the fix was to switch a wire. The blue with yellow was throwing power to the green box and then no where. So i took that power from the blue and yellow and sent it down the black with green stripe that was attached to nothing except the passenger side up power. All fixed



Doing relays for each door is a pain, so an alternative is to use a "DEI 530T" window automation system. This is meant to be used for alarms systems, and rolls the windows up when the alarm is armed. These units cost $50 for two windows and include built in relays and allow one touch roll up so you dont have to keep your finger on the button the whole time to roll up or down. The system wires directly to the motors and relies on the factory switches to throw minimal power to activate them. This is an easy alternative to wiring relays to each door with no instructions and gives more functionality than stock. I also bypassed the green box, since the unit provides relays and auto down and up. Mine is wired to the alarm, so they all roll up when i arm the alarm.

 

[bullsheadcruiser]

Can you point me to how I track CDan down? I found a user called CDaniel in AZ but who said he is not CDan. Perhaps PM me as I am a rather amateur user of the site.

 

[Tim-HJ61]

Really appreciate this thread.

I have completed the mod on my 24v HJ61.
The wiring colours are exactly the same as described in the thread.
The method is exactly the same as described in the thread.

The only difference is fitting relays with a 24v coil. I couldn't easily find high capacity 24v relays, so bought 24v 10A relays. Given 24v draws half the current of 12v, they are the equivalent of 20A relays, so I figure they will be quite adequate.

EDIT - I found the low current relays were not up to scratch and have bought proper automotive SPDT change over five pin relays. These are rated at 30A and will be much more satisfactory - ENDEDIT

I've refined the instructions to help fellow Aussies not familiar with some of the terms used. These build on the instructions at post https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=4067473&postcount=51 and are aimed at folk who didn't buy relays with a ready made harness. Best to go back to posts 47 to 51 and carefully read everything they say before following my steps.


<<<

UP Relay
Cut the Green with the yellow stripe wire.
Connect the end closest to the connector to Pin 30 on the relay.
Connect the end closest to the switch to Pin 85 on the relay.

Down Relay
Cut the Red with Yellow stripe wire. Cut this wire about 3cm along from the other cut to allow the relays to sit flatter.
Connect the end closest to the connector to Pin 30 on the relay.
Connect the end closest to the switch to Pin 85 on the relay.

Splice two wires into the Blue wire that runs between the connector and the switch. Leave this blue wire connected to both the connector and the switch. Connect Pin 87 on both relays to this blue wire. Note - Pin 87 connects to Pin 30 on the relay when the relay is not energised – i.e not turned on.

Connect the remaining pins on both relays – Pin 86 on the coil, and 87A to Ground on the door. Note: Pin 87a connects to Pin 30 when the relays coil is energised - i.e. turned on.
<<<

Hope this helps 24v Aussie users.

Tim

 

[icemann8317]

new master contol switch the problem?

hey guys i have a question for the electrical gurus out there. i bought a new master window control switch(aftermarket) for my fj62, after installing it the passenger side window wouldnt work. after reading the forum i found that the wiring is off on the aftermaket switches. i fixed it and it worked fine for a day. Now the master switch will only roll the passenger window up not down and the passenger switch will only roll down not up. I switched the passenger switch with a known working rear window switch and same problem. Any ideas? Much thanks in advance

 

[Spook50]

After having the lock relay mod installed for several years now, I can attest that it works like a champion. I think now one of my solenoids is pooping out though because my rear left lock won't engage or disengage when under just battery power. With the engine running and the full 14V in the system, it works just like factory brand new. All the others work great still, so this tells me there's an issue with the solenoid.

I also found some SMT and through-hole PCB mounted relays by Panasonic on Digi-Key, so when I get around to trying the window relay mod (still haven't gotten that done), I might try a few of those. They're smaller than normal automotive relays, same specs, and I think mounting them could be much easier. Be great to have a simple board with two relays and the necessary wires in place and ready for simple splicing. Could make mounting a whole lot easier as well.

Also; Eric, given the current draw of the locks and the window motors, have you considered any likely benefit of adding capacitors to the circuits just upstream of the load input for the relays? This might provide the bit of extra initial oomph that'd be needed for worn tracks or extreme hot or cold temps. Just a thought. I might try it myself and see if there's any difference with or without caps. I'm like freakin' Curious George with this stuff now that I'm gaining alot more useful knowledge and experience

 

[irstaxhelp]

Can I get this diagram. The link at the beginning does not work... Sorry

 

[slcfj62]

The schematics and specific info for the locks are in posts 27 to 32 and the schematics and info for the power window mod are in posts 47 to 51. Are you not able to see the pics in those postings?

 

[Spook50]

Still showing up on my end after clearing out my cache, so the hosting is working.

 

[mrt6644]

Regarding the power window fix, it looks like a great mod, but what about the issue of the existing power feed being weak?
A common issue with many of the electrical components is the weak power feed from the fusible links, like the headlights, heater motor, defroster, etc.
The relay fix for the power windows only switches the existing power feed which comes from the fusible links.
Isn't a new fresh power feed necessary to make this work as new?
I feel like all stock electrical components are all weak due to the old and restricted power feeds.

 

[mrt6644]

Here's my issue. I had the same power door lock issue many have had. Cleaning the contacts helped.
I installed a Viper remote door unlock system. It's just a basic unit that I only use the remote door lock/unlock function.
According to the documents, the unit contains relays so I felt that I didn't need the relay fix as written up in his thread. However, one of the door locks is still not functioning well.
I'm thinking that maybe the factory power feed is the cause? Relay or not, if the relay is using the factory power feed and sending this through the factory wires to each door, there will still be a loss of power.
The problem door is the passenger side rear door, which is the furthest away. I don't think it's the mechanical linkage.
I'm wondering if the factory wiring issue that affects many other power systems is the cause. Seems like the fusible links or the aging corroding wires could be causing significant resistance?
Has anyone ever installed relays at each door for the power door locks?
This would require wiring new power feeds to each door that are always hot.
It would be nice if all the power door locks worked consistently.

 

[Spook50]

One of my locking solenoids doesn't like to actuate unless I'm pushing a full 14V to it. Idle or battery power doesn't provide enough voltage to push the required current thru the old wiring to it. Initially I thought the solenoid was crapping out but a direct connection to 12V and it feels like the arm is going to blast its way out of the solenoid housing, for both directions. This tells me that the new relays' present location electrically, while a vast improvement over stock, still can't compensate for the increasing resistance in the wiring and connectors as they age.

It looks like the only real viable long term option will be two pairs of relays in each door (one for the window up/down and the other pair for the lock solenoid) and leaving the master switch wiring in the OEM configuration. Fortunately the window motors and solenoids operate the same way, each door can be done independently. The bugger is that the standard 40A relays are fairly big when you get four of them together in one area. I'm going to do some digging to see if there are some more compact relays that can maybe be mounted on PCB and not cost an arm and a leg. Keeping the solution as one fully integrated unit will make installation easier, though a larger (thinking maybe 14ga or even 12) power wire will be needed in each door, and I'd add a dedicated ground lead to attach to the vehicle body instead of the door (avoid having the ground current pass through the door hinges).

Auto-resetting breakers instead of fuses for the power leads would probably be a good addition too.

 

[mrt6644]

I came to the same exact realization. The relay fix described in the site is a nice idea, but has 2 flaws for some vehicles.
1: it uses the old 12v positive and ground source from the stock wiring, which really isn't up to the task.
2: and 2, the wiring between the driver door and each door is old, thin and possibly corroded.
The only 100% fix is to do the same thing as the headlights. The headlight relay fix does not use old stock wiring, it uses a new power source that goes directly to the battery.
So if you want. 100% fix! you need to wire a new power source to each door! for the door locks and windows. And run a new ground as well. Then you need relays in the door. The factory stock wiring can be used to send a signal to the relays where no real current is required.
I haven't done this as it is an ordeal to run all this stuff but I don't think there is an option otherwise.

One of my locking solenoids doesn't like to actuate unless I'm pushing a full 14V to it. Idle or battery power doesn't provide enough voltage to push the required current thru the old wiring to it. Initially I thought the solenoid was crapping out but a direct connection to 12V and it feels like the arm is going to blast its way out of the solenoid housing, for both directions. This tells me that the new relays' present location electrically, while a vast improvement over stock, still can't compensate for the increasing resistance in the wiring and connectors as they age.

It looks like the only real viable long term option will be two pairs of relays in each door (one for the window up/down and the other pair for the lock solenoid) and leaving the master switch wiring in the OEM configuration. Fortunately the window motors and solenoids operate the same way, each door can be done independently. The bugger is that the standard 40A relays are fairly big when you get four of them together in one area. I'm going to do some digging to see if there are some more compact relays that can maybe be mounted on PCB and not cost an arm and a leg. Keeping the solution as one fully integrated unit will make installation easier, though a larger (thinking maybe 14ga or even 12) power wire will be needed in each door, and I'd add a dedicated ground lead to attach to the vehicle body instead of the door (avoid having the ground current pass through the door hinges).

Auto-resetting breakers instead of fuses for the power leads would probably be a good addition too.

 

[bapmia]

Undoubtedly the condition of the electrical systems in each of our trucks is different, but in my truck the locks nearly shoot out of all 4 doors when locked/unlocked. I do not have the relay mod installed and the master switch is original and has not been cleaned. I do have Eric's headlight harness, but the rest of the electrical system is original. What made a huge difference for me is a combination of the following (1) new battery; (2) new Denso/OEM alternator; and (3) new battery cable set from "Fourrunner" here on Mud. In fact, I planned on doing the relay mod (even bought all the parts), but after installing the new battery and alternator, there was such a noticeable improvement in the operation of the locks that I abandoned the plan. Having said that, Fourrunner's battery cables are what really added the muscle not only to the locks, but the starter motor as well. The truck cranks with authority--big, big difference in starter performance!