bump - this should get stickied
Power Windows and Door Locks--Permanent Fix! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter slcfj62
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Since you're already dealing with the switches I have a quick question I was hoping you could answer. The window lock switch on my '88 is broke off (gone, out since I bought it) in the locked position so all I can do is raise and lower the driver window.
Would it be a fairly easy thing to go in and fix? I don't care if the window lock switch works or not, but I'd prefer it was broken in the position where it allows the windows to be used by passengers
Thanks for any advice!
Would it be a fairly easy thing to go in and fix? I don't care if the window lock switch works or not, but I'd prefer it was broken in the position where it allows the windows to be used by passengers
Thanks for any advice!
- Thread starter
- #43
Since you're already dealing with the switches I have a quick question I was hoping you could answer. The window lock switch on my '88 is broke off (gone, out since I bought it) in the locked position so all I can do is raise and lower the driver window.
Would it be a fairly easy thing to go in and fix? I don't care if the window lock switch works or not, but I'd prefer it was broken in the position where it allows the windows to be used by passengers
Thanks for any advice!
The window lock switch works this way: The return ground for all the windows except the drivers window comes back to the window lock switch. So, when the switch is in the lock position, none of them work. If yours is missing, you could solder a jumper wire across the contacts. Then it would be as if the switch was always in the unlock position. You could also modify the window switches at all the doors to ground them there, but you would need to install the relay mod to do that.
If you are planning on doing the relay mod to your windows, hold off until I figure out whether the diodes work or not. Then in my write up, I'll include both options--with and without the diodes. Then you can decide which option you want to use: With the diodes you would need to solder a jumper across the window lock switch contacts. Without the diodes, you will need to run a ground wire to every door.
I should have the diodes today or tomorrow and will have the write up done by Saturday morning.
- Thread starter
- #44
Diodes work with quickie test
The diodes came today and my preliminary tests say they are going to work. They get a little warm with repeated window cycles, but should be OK under normal circumstances.
I am convinced that fixing the windows is a multi-pronged approach. Today my window channel weatherstripping also arrived. It is outrageously expensive for what it is. Someone needs to find an alternative. This thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/141279-sluggish-windows-fixed-$40-dial-up-grab-coffee.html
is perfect, except the style 27 isn't available on the JC Whitney site, or at least it doesn't seem to be. I should have called and talked to a sales rep instead of giving up so easily and getting the OEM stuff from Toyota. But now that I have the OEM channels, they are just rubber, and in almost the exact shape as the style 27 that doctorjj used. So if someone will take some initiative and call and find a source for the window channel weatherstrip that will be a big help to everyone, because I think most will need replacing.
At any rate, I pulled the front passenger side window and regulator out. The previous owner had slapped what looked like wheel bearing grease all over the regulator. The grease had hardened and got sticky, and was not helping. Once I got all the old grease off, I lubed the regulator with Toyota lithium grease, the kind that comes in a spray can. I installed the new window channels and reinstalled the window and regulator. Using a modified switch with relays and grounded through the diode, the window (front passenger side) comes down in 4 seconds, and goes up in 5 seconds. And with the new window channels and grease, it goes smoothly up and down without slowing down and speeding up like before. By contrast, the drivers door window, which hasn't been lubed or window channel replaced yet, and which used to be the fastest of the 4 windows goes down in 6 seconds and up in 7. The front passenger window with just the relay mod (before lube and new channels) went up and down at about the same speed as the drivers side. So new channels and grease will shave off about 2 seconds I think.
I haven't tackled my back windows yet. At present, they won't even go up and down without some help. Hopefully I'll see the same results with the back windows that I am seeing with the front passenger window. I'll finish my write up after I do at least one of the back windows.
The diodes came today and my preliminary tests say they are going to work. They get a little warm with repeated window cycles, but should be OK under normal circumstances.
I am convinced that fixing the windows is a multi-pronged approach. Today my window channel weatherstripping also arrived. It is outrageously expensive for what it is. Someone needs to find an alternative. This thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/141279-sluggish-windows-fixed-$40-dial-up-grab-coffee.html
is perfect, except the style 27 isn't available on the JC Whitney site, or at least it doesn't seem to be. I should have called and talked to a sales rep instead of giving up so easily and getting the OEM stuff from Toyota. But now that I have the OEM channels, they are just rubber, and in almost the exact shape as the style 27 that doctorjj used. So if someone will take some initiative and call and find a source for the window channel weatherstrip that will be a big help to everyone, because I think most will need replacing.
At any rate, I pulled the front passenger side window and regulator out. The previous owner had slapped what looked like wheel bearing grease all over the regulator. The grease had hardened and got sticky, and was not helping. Once I got all the old grease off, I lubed the regulator with Toyota lithium grease, the kind that comes in a spray can. I installed the new window channels and reinstalled the window and regulator. Using a modified switch with relays and grounded through the diode, the window (front passenger side) comes down in 4 seconds, and goes up in 5 seconds. And with the new window channels and grease, it goes smoothly up and down without slowing down and speeding up like before. By contrast, the drivers door window, which hasn't been lubed or window channel replaced yet, and which used to be the fastest of the 4 windows goes down in 6 seconds and up in 7. The front passenger window with just the relay mod (before lube and new channels) went up and down at about the same speed as the drivers side. So new channels and grease will shave off about 2 seconds I think.
I haven't tackled my back windows yet. At present, they won't even go up and down without some help. Hopefully I'll see the same results with the back windows that I am seeing with the front passenger window. I'll finish my write up after I do at least one of the back windows.
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Thanks for all the info, this thread is great
- Thread starter
- #47
Power windows relay fix Part 1
(EDIT) I wanted to add the same disclaimer as for the door locks. This has worked well for me, and it will probably work for you. But just in case I screwed something up, you are on your own. And if you fry the wiring in your Cruiser, you can sue me for the same amount of money you paid me.
Well, I completed my testing using the diodes. The diodes are power diodes to handle the return current. Power diodes require a certain amount of current to bias or turn them on. Unfortunately, the relay coil doesn’t pass enough current to turn the diode on. I could use two diodes, the power diode for the motor return ground, and a signal diode for the relay coil ground, but I decided I’ve fooled with this long enough. Besides, by using diodes, the return ground will always be going through the drivers door master switch like it does without the relay mod, which I think is less desirable. It is better for the longevity of the switches to have only relay coil current pass through the switches. That way, the switches will last for ever. The switches are getting scarce and expensive.
So, I am tossing out the diode method, and proceeding by grounding at each door. For best reliability, a wire should be grounded to the chassis and fed through the rubber grommet at the front of each door and connected to the switch ground. It seems to work OK by grounding to the door, which relies on a ground path through the hinges. This will work for testing, but I wouldn’t recommend grounding to the door as a final solution. Run the ground wire, you will avoid problems down the road. Grounding problems often exhibit weird symptoms and are difficult to track down.
As I mentioned in a previous post, this mod isn’t the silver bullet that will cure all your power window ills. What it will do is present maximum voltage and current at each window motor, and preserve your switches from deteriorating—the black pitting which limits the current available and causes the window motors to be intermittent and slow. In my case, even with the relays, the back windows would not go all the way up and down without me pushing or pulling with my hand. To get the windows to go smoothly up and down, I pulled each regulator and window out of the door. I lubed the regulator, replaced the window channels with OEM, and installed the window relay mod. I also polished each switch contact to get rid of the pitting. Now all the windows are smooth and fast—about four seconds down, and five seconds up.
So, here is the relay mod part of the equation.
Picture 1 shows the connectors and the butt-splice crimping tool used for the mod. Use pliars for the tap splice connector.
(EDIT) I wanted to add the same disclaimer as for the door locks. This has worked well for me, and it will probably work for you. But just in case I screwed something up, you are on your own.
And if you fry the wiring in your Cruiser, you can sue me for the same amount of money you paid me. Well, I completed my testing using the diodes. The diodes are power diodes to handle the return current. Power diodes require a certain amount of current to bias or turn them on. Unfortunately, the relay coil doesn’t pass enough current to turn the diode on. I could use two diodes, the power diode for the motor return ground, and a signal diode for the relay coil ground, but I decided I’ve fooled with this long enough. Besides, by using diodes, the return ground will always be going through the drivers door master switch like it does without the relay mod, which I think is less desirable. It is better for the longevity of the switches to have only relay coil current pass through the switches. That way, the switches will last for ever. The switches are getting scarce and expensive.
So, I am tossing out the diode method, and proceeding by grounding at each door. For best reliability, a wire should be grounded to the chassis and fed through the rubber grommet at the front of each door and connected to the switch ground. It seems to work OK by grounding to the door, which relies on a ground path through the hinges. This will work for testing, but I wouldn’t recommend grounding to the door as a final solution. Run the ground wire, you will avoid problems down the road. Grounding problems often exhibit weird symptoms and are difficult to track down.
As I mentioned in a previous post, this mod isn’t the silver bullet that will cure all your power window ills. What it will do is present maximum voltage and current at each window motor, and preserve your switches from deteriorating—the black pitting which limits the current available and causes the window motors to be intermittent and slow. In my case, even with the relays, the back windows would not go all the way up and down without me pushing or pulling with my hand. To get the windows to go smoothly up and down, I pulled each regulator and window out of the door. I lubed the regulator, replaced the window channels with OEM, and installed the window relay mod. I also polished each switch contact to get rid of the pitting. Now all the windows are smooth and fast—about four seconds down, and five seconds up.
So, here is the relay mod part of the equation.
Picture 1 shows the connectors and the butt-splice crimping tool used for the mod. Use pliars for the tap splice connector.
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- Thread starter
- #48
Power windows relay fix Part 2
The second picture shows the schematic for this mod. Refer to the power door lock mod earlier in the thread for how to interpret the color code for the wires. You will notice that the colors of the wires change with each door. The relative wires are in the same places in the connector however, so the mod is wired exactly the same for each door.
The wires will be cut where the X’s are.
The second picture shows the schematic for this mod. Refer to the power door lock mod earlier in the thread for how to interpret the color code for the wires. You will notice that the colors of the wires change with each door. The relative wires are in the same places in the connector however, so the mod is wired exactly the same for each door.
The wires will be cut where the X’s are.
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- Thread starter
- #49
Power windows relay fix Part 3
This picture shows the wire colors map for the front passenger switch. The Toyota color codes from the manual are B=Black, R=Red, L=bLue, G=Green, Y=Yellow. Where two colors are listed, there is a colored stripe on the wire.
As I mentioned in the power door lock post, the colors on the wiring diagram from the Factory Service Manual change at the connector where the door switch plugs into the vehicle wiring loom. The map shows this color change for the front passenger door, called the "Assistant" in the FSM.
You should verify that your vehicle has the same wiring colors as mine. If not, make your own map that shows the wiring color changes.
This picture shows the wire colors map for the front passenger switch. The Toyota color codes from the manual are B=Black, R=Red, L=bLue, G=Green, Y=Yellow. Where two colors are listed, there is a colored stripe on the wire.
As I mentioned in the power door lock post, the colors on the wiring diagram from the Factory Service Manual change at the connector where the door switch plugs into the vehicle wiring loom. The map shows this color change for the front passenger door, called the "Assistant" in the FSM.
You should verify that your vehicle has the same wiring colors as mine. If not, make your own map that shows the wiring color changes.
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- Thread starter
- #50
Power windows relay fix Part 4
OK, here we go. You are going to cut the Green wire with the Yellow stripe and the Red wire with the Yellow stripe. If you offset the cuts an inch or so, things will lay a little flatter.
OK, here we go. You are going to cut the Green wire with the Yellow stripe and the Red wire with the Yellow stripe. If you offset the cuts an inch or so, things will lay a little flatter.
- Thread starter
- #51
Power windows relay fix Part 5
Label or mark the two relay harnesses you are going to be using. Label one UP and the other DOWN. Now, using the butt splice connectors and the tap splice connectors, make the following connections. Refer to the schematic for the relay in the power door lock mod earlier in the thread.
That’s it! Go out and plug the switch back in, connect up the ground wire and test it out.
EDIT: By the way, this mod bypasses the window lock switch in the drivers door master switch, so you will no longer be able to lock passengers windows.
Label or mark the two relay harnesses you are going to be using. Label one UP and the other DOWN. Now, using the butt splice connectors and the tap splice connectors, make the following connections. Refer to the schematic for the relay in the power door lock mod earlier in the thread.
- Butt splice the UP Yellow wire to the connector Green wire with the Yellow stripe.
- Butt splice the UP Brown wire to the switch side Green wire with the Yellow stripe.
- Butt splice the DOWN Yellow wire to the connector Red wire with the Yellow stripe.
- Butt splice the DOWN Brown wire to the switch side Red wire with the Yellow stripe.
- Using the Tap Splice Connectors, connect both UP and DOWN relay harness Red wires to the Blue wire running between the switch and the connector.
- Connect both the UP and DOWN Black and Blue relay harness wires all together. This will be the wire you GROUND. The yellow tap splice connector works better for connecting the two larger black wires together.
That’s it! Go out and plug the switch back in, connect up the ground wire and test it out.
EDIT: By the way, this mod bypasses the window lock switch in the drivers door master switch, so you will no longer be able to lock passengers windows.
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YOU are my huckleberry of the day.
Think using a few transistors for the Window Locks would work? I'm not too much of an electronics guy, but I think they could do the trick. Although it would involve running voltage through the lock switch. I dunno, just a thought, you seem to have a lot more electronics experience then I do.
Edit: Thinking more about this, you could use the same ground wires that run to each of the windows as the signal wires on the transistors and just apply 12 volts to it when the switch is on, with the transistor interrupting the connecting (brown wires) when current is not applied. (If you use this idea, make sure it only applies current when the car is on, we don't need another clock draining the battery when everything is off anyway)
Edit: Thinking more about this, you could use the same ground wires that run to each of the windows as the signal wires on the transistors and just apply 12 volts to it when the switch is on, with the transistor interrupting the connecting (brown wires) when current is not applied. (If you use this idea, make sure it only applies current when the car is on, we don't need another clock draining the battery when everything is off anyway)
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- Thread starter
- #55
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No no no, hold on, maybe the post hadn't updated before you read it. Put two transistors in on the brown "signal" wires from the switch to the relay. This then disables the relay, however no through ground and not through power, it just disables the switch. If the driver door switches still worked that would be even better for me.
- Thread starter
- #57
So I'm thinking about this and posting while I'm listening to a conference call, so only half my brain is in this. Sorry. If you are thinking only about the power window lock out feature, then we are talking about the same thing. If you are concerned that my relay mod is going to disable the master control switches, then I can set your mind at ease. Once you install the relay mods in the doors, either the drivers door master panel switches OR the switches on each door will operate the relays and roll the window up and down. None of the window up and down functionality is lost, only the lock out feature at the drivers door panel. And now, I'm thinking I can use some signal diodes in the return ground path for the relay coil, and be able to also use the window lock out switch. And, I'll kick your idea around in my head and see if we can alternately use some transisitors and be able to use the master control switches even when the window lock out switch is engaged.
EDIT: Looking at the schematic again, it would require a redesign to be able to still actuate the windows from the drivers panel when the window lock switch is activated. The two switches (drivers door and any of the other doors) are in series with each other. This means that interrupting the brown wire (relay coil return ground) locks out both the drivers panel and the individual door switch. To be able to not lose drivers door functionality when the lock switch is activated would require the switches to be in parallel. This would require running some more wires to each door which would increase the complexity of the mod dramatically. For my own sanity, and for ease of implementation, I don't want to go down that path.
Anyone else want to take on the challenge?
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I am electronicaly impaired and have these issues with my switches,I have the oportunity to a wrecked 80 series and was wondering if I could gut out all the wiring and motors and swap it ,would this work or is it completely a different wiring set up.
If not I will pain stakingly try to follow the path of this thread and maybe just maybe I won't have a electrical fire down th road.
If not I will pain stakingly try to follow the path of this thread and maybe just maybe I won't have a electrical fire down th road.
- Thread starter
- #59
I did a little lurking on the 80s forum, and it looks like they may have the same issues with the windows as we do with the 62s. So that may not gain you much. And I personally don't know if the 80s window motors and locks would be a direct fit. I think your better option is to do the mod, replace the window channels and lube the regulators. Then if you have a bad motor or something, see if the one from the 80 will fit. Unless of course, you have access to a donor 80, in which case we will all be interested in what works and what doesn't. And don't stress too much about causing a meltdown. That is what fuses and circuit breakers are for!
EDIT: And by the way, if you have any questions about the mod, let me know. I tried to be clear about the procedure, but what is clear for me might be mud for you.
Apparently my understanding of the cruiser wiring is either a bit off or I am just missing something.
How does the driver panel connect in to the window motor of the passenger's window? Is it through the passenger's switch or not?
If it doesn't connect through the passenger's switch then interrupting the brown grounding wire from the control circuit would only stop the passenger's side switch from working.
How does the driver panel connect in to the window motor of the passenger's window? Is it through the passenger's switch or not?
If it doesn't connect through the passenger's switch then interrupting the brown grounding wire from the control circuit would only stop the passenger's side switch from working.
