Power Vs Manual drum brakes and other brake related questions. (1 Viewer)

[RustyRanger]

I'm trying to come up with a plan for my fj before I start going and getting parts. I'm going to stick with drums because I want to keep my original axles and I don't plan on going crazy with power, lift and huge tires or towing.

I am considering doing a dual circuit system no matter what but my biggest wonder is, should I try and go with power brakes instead of just getting another manual Master cylinder?

How big of a PITA is it to put some form of booster system on a very early 40?
Do I need to worry about damaging my drums with a boosted system?
If I went boosted, what are some parts that would work?
Is it possible to use parts from a much newer, more easily sourced or common vehicle VS specialty parts or trying to dig up really old land cruiser specific stuff?
I know they used some weird 9mm brake line fittings on these, how big of a problem is that going to be when I run new lines?

Thanks for the help.

 

[reddingcruiser]

Have you made a panic stop yet at any speed over 30mph with your drum brakes? My wife did in her new-to-her '72 FJ40 and disk brakes are now on the to-do list. Drum brakes CAN be adjusted to stop straight (for a while), and at one time that was all there was to choose from for braking. FWIW, I believe front disk brakes are one of the best upgrades you can do to a FJ40. Plus, it is possible to do this with all OEM Toyota parts, making servicing them an easy chore.

There are adapter kits for the booster to clear the firewall rib. Do the booster, dual circuit master cylinder and disk brakes, you won't regret it.

 

[RustyRanger]

Have you made a panic stop yet at any speed over 30mph with your drum brakes? My wife did in her new-to-her '72 FJ40 and disk brakes are now on the to-do list. Drum brakes CAN be adjusted to stop straight (for a while), and at one time that was all there was to choose from for braking. FWIW, I believe front disk brakes are one of the best upgrades you can do to a FJ40. Plus, it is possible to do this with all OEM Toyota parts, making servicing them an easy chore.

There are adapter kits for the booster to clear the firewall rib. Do the booster, dual circuit master cylinder and disk brakes, you won't regret it.

I'd have to find a mighty large hill to push it down to get up to 40mph right now, what with no engine in it and all, really doesn't even have functioning brakes either, with the original master cylinder being a ball of rust inside and the brake soft lines being 55 years old and rotted.

Disk's on the early cruisers require a newer axle if I understand it right or a pile of money for a aftermarket setup( not sure about those fitting a 64 anyway). It's only a semi-easy swap once the later axles came around in the 1970's. Not going down that road any time soon, only so much money to spend.

 

[Alexh85]

I'd have to find a mighty large hill to push it down to get up to 40mph right now, what with no engine in it and all, really doesn't even have functioning brakes either, with the original master cylinder being a ball of rust inside and the brake soft lines being 55 years old and rotted.

Disk's on the early cruisers require a newer axle if I understand it right or a pile of money for a aftermarket setup( not sure about those fitting a 64 anyway). It's only a semi-easy swap once the later axles came around in the 1970's. Not going down that road any time soon, only so much money to spend.

I dont know any thing about rear disk brakes, but on the front you just need swivel hubs from a 60/70. the only problem then is the 40 tierod ends dont fit the bigger steering arms on the knuckles, nor do the 40 series arms fit on the 60 knuckles . i got around this by doing a power steering conversion, i used a 70 series tie rod and drag link and a 60 series steering box. Have a look at what i did
i fitted an 80 series brake booster and master cylinder and calipers from a Hilux Surf which are bigger than the 60 ones
Cheers

 

[Alexh85]

Damn, i didn't know axles changed sometime in the 1970s. What i said might not work?

 

[RustyRanger]

Damn, i didn't know axles changed sometime in the 1970s. What i said might not work?

Yeah the hubs and whatnot are different. The pre 1967's ones have ball and claw joints not birfields like the 1970's and later cruisers and pickups had, most kits say 1970 and later for disks. I believe the knuckles are different.

Not interested in different axles or spending thousands of extra dollars, so I'm sticking with drums. I want to keep my original wheels and hubcaps too.
I'm half tempted just to order a new single circuit Master and run with it but I figure if I'm giving up disks and power boost, I might not want to go too primitive.

Quote of SOR:

On early Land Cruisers 1958-7/70 it takes major significant modifications to fit disc brakes on these Cruisers. Firewall changes, pedal bucket modifications, differences in hard line fittings all add up to changes beyond just bolting on other year parts. On these models you will need to be your own engineer and fabricator. 1958-9/73 Cruisers with stock riveted wheels, the hub of the wheel is riveted to the outer rim and will not fit the calipers. These will need to updated to the non riveted, later style, welded type wheel. All SOR Front Disc Changeover Kits parts are from Land Cruiser axles only, not mini truck or some other vehicle.

 

[pb4ugo]

If your considering to stay with drums, then I think at a minimum, you should at least adapt to a dual circuit system with new hard & soft lines. It's a major safety issue. In a single circuit system, if 1 line fails then you will have no brakes. I would not rely on the old original 9mm soft and hardlines.

 

[RustyRanger]

Any idea what master cylinders I should try and buy? Can I just buy standard size brake hard line and bend up a set or do I have to find some oddball size to match the 9mm fittings? I've got all the tools to do it and a bunch of time, so I don't want to buy a SOR prebent set.

 

[3_puppies]

if staying with drums, follow any late 1970 up to 1975 40 series, those had 4 wheel power drum brakes.

 

[65swb45]

I have non-boosted dual circuit master cylinders with thin firewall adapters on all 4 of my rigs. Satisfied with the drum brakes.

Got the parts from Mark’s Off Road. He’s a MUD vendor.

 

[pb4ugo]

You can buy 3/16 brake line in bulk and bend it yourself, in stainless, steel or ni-cop. There's also another member on this site, Rainman, who makes up brake lines. To make lines you need a double flare tool and the proper fittings. The most important thing to remebmer is to put the fitting on the line b4 flaring it. I found Ni-cop is easy to work with. I prefer steel lines on the axles.

 

[RustyRanger]

You can buy 3/16 brake line in bulk and bend it yourself, in stainless, steel or ni-cop. There's also another member on this site, Rainman, who makes up brake lines. To make lines you need a double flare tool and the proper fittings. The most important thing to remebmer is to put the fitting on the line b4 flaring it. I found Ni-cop is easy to work with. I prefer steel lines on the axles.

Oh cool. Good to know. I'll have to pick up a double flare set. I don't believe my hvac set has those anvils in it.
I'll need to reuse my original tube nuts, or is it possible to buy new 9mm ones?

Sucks, looks like most stainless line is not supposed to be double flared. Oh well.

 

[RustyRanger]

Anyone know what the thread size is for the plastic external reservoirs on a early 70's fj40 dual circuit Master cylinder or a Source for tanks that don't cost $40 each?

I did notice that rock auto lists one that has fittings for external reservoirs included for $40. Just need to find some tanks that work and some appropriate hose with that one. Sucks that the ones sold complete with tanks cost $140+.

I pondered trying to use the metal tanks off my brake m/c and clutch m/c but they are very very rusted inside.

 

[MyTwoToys]

I have a 12/72 FJ-40 and put Power Steering and discs on it. I scavenged parts from a 60 series and it is great. I did have a guru put them on for me as I ran out of time and lost my shop in the middle of a move. I would highly recommend it if you will do any road time. If it is going to be strictly off road then the drums would be fine to me.

 

[pb4ugo]

I'm not that familiar with converting 9mm to 10mm. I prefer 4 wheel disc. I believe most 9mm hardware is nla, but you might be able to find 9mm to 10mm adapters. I think new brake hoses will be for 10mm lines. I think at some point you'll end up using later model wheel cyldrs and fittings. Spector and other sites have schematics on how stk brake lines are run for different yrs. As for brake components, stk Toyota and Asin stk replacement parts are best. I try to avoid Chinese knockoffs, they just don't last. There are many vendors on this site like Mark, who chimed in earlier or other places like cruiser outfitters, who can supply parts and walk you thru your project. Use the advanced search function and find threads on 9mm issues. Hopefully others more knowledgeable will chime in too.

 

[RustyRanger]

I have a 12/72 FJ-40 and put Power Steering and discs on it. I scavenged parts from a 60 series and it is great. I did have a guru put them on for me as I ran out of time and lost my shop in the middle of a move. I would highly recommend it if you will do any road time. If it is going to be strictly off road then the drums would be fine to me.

It's going to be mostly a drive to the mountains(55mph 2 lane) and drive around on dirt/gravel road rig. I'll probably drive it to work a few days a week( 3 miles of 40mph rural road) and do some car cruises and stuff in town in the summer. I've got a little pickup and a mustang as every day cars so it's going to just be a fun toy, not my only car. If I need to do interstate I'll take those.


https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_6415023
These seem like the right adapter fittings? I may just get these and convert everything from the master cylinder to the ends of the hoses to standard size line and fittings. Should allow me to use more common soft lines that way too, might even do braided lines.

 

[RustyRanger]

Ok So about those 9-1.0mm to 3/8-24 adapters. They are still available but I found a problem, they use bubble flares VS inverted or single 45*. I've found some threads about useing them but sofar I haven't found one that really shows where people have used them in the system and how people have worked around those stupid bubble flare fittings.

 

[MyTwoToys]

I did my rig 3 years ago so am not 100% positive but I am almost positive I went with 10mm. I also used NI-
CAD line and it has been great. Here are some pics. My finished product is disks in the front and drum in the rear and it works awesome. I found donor parts from a 60 series for the discs and Power Steering. .

 

[RustyRanger]

I wish I could go find the toyota engineer who decided to invent these bastard size fittings and yell at him.
It would be so, so easy to replace the whole system with common, cheap parts if those stupid fittings on the hubs were just 10mm. Then I want to find the idiot who decided the only adapters made should go to a bubble flare instead of a inverted flare. I'm haveing a hell of a time figureing out how to go from 3/8 bubble flare to a brake hose, . I'd like to replace as many of those stupid fittings as possible and it would be great if I could put the adapter on the hub fitting and be done with it.

 

[3_puppies]

I wish I could go find the toyota engineer who decided to invent these bastard size fittings and yell at him.
It would be so, so easy to replace the whole system with common, cheap parts if those stupid fittings on the hubs were just 10mm. Then I want to find the idiot who decided the only adapters made should go to a bubble flare instead of a inverted flare. I'm haveing a hell of a time figureing out how to go from 3/8 bubble flare to a brake hose, . I'd like to replace as many of those stupid fittings as possible and it would be great if I could put the adapter on the hub fitting and be done with it.

are you looking at replacing the wheel cylinders? go with later ones that would use the 10mm fittings, no adaptors needed.