Poor 100 snow+ice handling. (1 Viewer)

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Pskhaat

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After several days of snow and ice, when the skies cleared I took a fun 9.2 mile up & down a local mountain road to see how the UZJ100 does in the snow. It's normally nothing to write home about in any Cruiser. The route is here and is only 1800 total altitude delta:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=...21886&sspn=0.063702,0.11673&ie=UTF8&z=13&ll=3 9.655267,-105.4212&spn=0.063702,0.11673&om=1

What I found on my descent shocked me. The 100 is a completely different off-road animal to many 4WDs and previous Cruisers. On the steeper switchback turns (see North side of route) I very nearly went over the side of the road until I got a good feel of the 100, as the 100's rear end likes to slide out. More on why later.

To maintain any level of speed (I'm still talking very slow speeds here) and for those accustomed to winter driving, you almost need to delay corrective steering action during the slide turn in order to keep the 100 in it's intended track albeit at an angle, as early/natural correction will put you on the outside/falline track. I won't be brave enough to call this drifting, but in effect it is it's slight form.

The reason I believe the 100 has such an easy rear to break out is that in light braking, the rear calipers receive a greater bias of force. Harder braking will then transition the force more to the front of the vehicle. This is accounted in this thread here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=1294481&postcount=1

The problem with winter ice+snow driving downhill is that if you don't fall in the perfect downhill gear which is very difficult for longer variably sloped hills, there is still some braking to be done. One dare not apply too much brake as to cause ABS enabling which will IMO hinder braking even further in these conditions plus the delay in ABS shutoff. There is control to be had in a locked wheel when you know when to use it. Digressing, but you still will be applying some sort of braking which often immediately precedes the turn especially if you are on an unfamiliar road or at night where turns may creep unexpectedly on you even in safe & conservative driving.

Since the rear brakes have the bias more during these winter conditions in addition the already less orthogonal rear weight due to the incline plus the forward suspension shift during slowing: IMO it potentially causes an unnecessary rear end slide during tight cornering.

My sister-in-law years ago complained of this in her Hundy, but I never gave her due credit until now.
 
After several days of snow and ice, when the skies cleared I took a fun 9.2 mile up & down a local mountain road to see how the UZJ100 does in the snow. It's normally nothing to write home about in any Cruiser. The route is here and is only 1800 total altitude delta:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=...21886&sspn=0.063702,0.11673&ie=UTF8&z=13&ll=3 9.655267,-105.4212&spn=0.063702,0.11673&om=1

What I found on my descent shocked me. The 100 is a completely different off-road animal to many 4WDs and previous Cruisers. On the steeper switchback turns (see North side of route) I very nearly went over the side of the road until I got a good feel of the 100, as the 100's rear end likes to slide out. More on why later.

To maintain any level of speed (I'm still talking very slow speeds here) and for those accustomed to winter driving, you almost need to delay corrective steering action during the slide turn in order to keep the 100 in it's intended track albeit at an angle, as early/natural correction will put you on the outside/falline track. I won't be brave enough to call this drifting, but in effect it is it's slight form.

The reason I believe the 100 has such an easy rear to break out is that in light braking, the rear calipers receive a greater bias of force. Harder braking will then transition the force more to the front of the vehicle. This is accounted in this thread here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=1294481&postcount=1

The problem with winter ice+snow driving downhill is that if you don't fall in the perfect downhill gear which is very difficult for longer variably sloped hills, there is still some braking to be done. One dare not apply too much brake as to cause ABS enabling which will IMO hinder braking even further in these conditions plus the delay in ABS shutoff. There is control to be had in a locked wheel when you know when to use it. Digressing, but you still will be applying some sort of braking which often immediately precedes the turn especially if you are on an unfamiliar road or at night where turns may creep unexpectedly on you even in safe & conservative driving.

Since the rear brakes have the bias more during these winter conditions in addition the already less orthogonal rear weight due to the incline plus the forward suspension shift during slowing: IMO it potentially causes an unnecessary rear end slide during tight cornering.

My sister-in-law years ago complained of this in her Hundy, but I never gave her due credit until now.


What tires are you running? And what PSI?
 
If you are trying to "float" on the snow at reduced tire pressure then of course you will be sledding around. If you want control the tire needs to dig to solid ground. I would try running at your normal pressure and see if it improves performance.

I have had no problems with the rear of the 100 coming around even with my Revos which I consider only a moderately good snow tire. I have found the ABS extremely good allowing for steering control at maximum braking. The LC does appear to respond well to "absolute" maximum braking force when the ABS kicks it rather than trying to ease off even when compared to other ABS vehciles I've driven.

The Big O XT doesn't appear to be ideal for a snow tire but really more of a open tread "mud" style tire designed to "shed" rather than stick.

XT(new)009.jpg


The tightness of the lugs and small "sipes" of a true snow tire (as well as specific winter compounds) allow it to grip rather than "shed" the snow beneath it. (Bridgestone Blizzak below)

chillzoneMENU.jpg


A couple of questions I have to get a better idea of the situation ...

Was this fresh untracked snow or a hard snow packed road?
Was the truck in Low?
Using the rear locker or CDL ?
Stock tire size ?
 
Last edited:
Several days of snow and ice?

Scott, Could there have been more ice on the road than you thought? I don't know of any rubber that grips ice especially on a 6000lb top heavy truck. (btw what do Zambonis run)
I recently did a ski trip to Brianhead UT. and purposely did figure eights in the parking lot before the lifts opened one morning in about 10 inches of fresh powder and did not break loose. Of course I didn't have the pedal mashed. Driving around I had the ECT sw in 2nd and on decending the hill down to Parowan I had the shifter in 2nd and rarely had to touch the brakes, mostly just got off the gas before the turns.
I have stock Michelin LTS m+s running recommended tire press.

Every situation is different but this time mine was as expected. :cheers:
 
What year is your 100?
 
If your rear end is locked it will create an entirely different set of circumstances and those aren't necessarily good for driving in snow.
 
I would try running at your normal pressure and see if it improves performance.
I do not have lower pressure for the snow, just a remnant from the weekend.

I have found the ABS extremely good allowing for steering control at maximum braking.

I am one who prefers the option of ABS. I find that I am able to stop and control a vehicle better in many conditions without it.

As far as snow tires, sure Blizzaks are the bomb! but I think most people would agree that a good studded mud tire does pretty darn well too. I guess my point is that I'm quite confident that given a 60, 80, and 100 series on that road, the 100 has a more natural tendency to break given equal driving techniques. The 100 simply IMO needs to be handled differently than past Cruisers, and empirically it very much seems to me due to the more advanced (?) braking system, especially the rear, at least on the 1998-1999s...
 
I do this all the time in my 04 and it is rock solid.
I run B blizaks at 38 lbs.

No problems!
 
"I am one who prefers the option of ABS. I find that I am able to stop and control a vehicle better in many conditions without it."









X2!
 
For snow driving I use Blizzaks and disabled ABS. I have no complaints about it. It drives great. I can only complain about lack of snow this winter ;)
Studded MT tires will perform better only on ice. On snow regular winter tires will perform better.

Regards
Samo
 
I guess my point is that I'm quite confident that given a 60, 80, and 100 series on that road, the 100 has a more natural tendency to break given equal driving techniques. The 100 simply IMO needs to be handled differently than past Cruisers...

Maybe its due to the 100s weighing more then previous cruisers...more weight to throw around in the rear, then again some might say its more weight to help keep it planted. All depends on tire PSI too. The truck can handling much differently in incimate weather just by changing tire pressure....just like driving on the sand/rocks.
 
I have this problem a few winters ago before realizing that one of my rear caliper are stuck. I always though why my rear end always skid around on snow. I even cut extra sipes on my revo.

Anyway my old suzuki samurai on stock road tire would run circles on snow compared to my 99 LC.
 
Hmmm, now you've got me anxious (not eager) for better weather to go check that one out, though it all seemed good in there last year when I changed out the hard lines and pads...
 
your needing to be brave observation is pretty correct for those conditions, where fast is chuck it in, and rely on skill to do the "perfect" in and out on the turns, and depending on the suspension you run, wheel alignment settings, and tyres, they will all have a bearing on the grip levels and speed you can get the vehicle to cope with.

Normally, you would pick up the speed by at least double, by sliding the car in, facing your direction of exit at the apex, and driving it out, using throttle to control the amount of slide, direction change required.

Sometimes running lower pressures in the tyres will assist in getting the vehicle momentum moving in the required direction more quickly, and adding drive traction while doing so in a awd vehicle.

Thye cruiser will lift off oversteer though, hence why the tequenique above works in a faster speed.
 
Interesting thread; one question however, can you disable ABS on a 2000?

Also I had six kids; part of my soccer team with me yesterday & when we pulled into the fair grounds they begged for some donuts; so I headed into the empty lot & started a hard turn & finally got the rear to break loose as the ATC started beeping away, but the scary thing is as I let off in one of the turns the truck felt like the rear was a sling shoot & kept breaking out. Fun for the kids, but felt a little nerve racking to me.

Conditions were 4-5" snow with a 1/2 crust of hard ice pack-virgin terrain. No lock.

Any thoughts?
 

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