pitman arm ? for saginaw PS conversion
- Thread starter blemarr
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dgangle
total rice
Local autoparts stores are NOT the place to buy a pitman arm. I bet they look at you like you have three eyes. Try a GM dealer with patient and experienced parts countermen. I doubt this item is in stock for a 29 year old car not produced anymore and a part that doesn't wear out so you most likely not be able to hold and look at it. Probably have to order it and then if it doesn't work have a $60 paperweight or pay a restocking charge if they are so gracious as to even take returns on special order items.
All that being said, to the best of my knowledge, there is no Saginaw pitman arm with the correct hole/taper to accept a stock FJ40 tie rod end (on the drag link at pitman arm). That is why every vendor that sells this arm also sells an SAE TRE and a special drag link that is threaded on one end metric and SAE on the other. That is not to say one couldn't bush or otherwise jury-rig something to 'work'.
One option is to buy this relay rod, SAE TRE and a Saginaw pitman arm of whatever configuration you desire. Downey, TPI, Advance Adapters and probably others as well all sell these items. I have gone this route on several trucks I have owned.
If you are dead-set on using the FJ40 TRE at the pitman arm, the only option I see is to buy whatever pitman arm you desire and take it to someone that can weld up the hole and ream it to the proper diameter/taper required by the FJ40 TRE. I have not had this done buy would imagine it would cost at least $100 when you are all done on this item alone. You will still need a custom relay rod that is the proper length and have the correct internal metric threads cut on each end. Add another $150-200.
If you want to go high steer or use larger one-ton or 80-series parts, non of the above apply. There are plenty of vendors that sell what you need.
Last, if you do go boneyard shopping, take your own tools (if they will allow) including a pitman arm puller, TRE puller/pickle fork, hammer and hand tools as I seriously doubt axeman with the blue-tipped wrench is going to be able to provide to you only this part. You may have to buy the entire steering box, etc. One time I bought a box/arm and they later handed me the steering box still attached to a section of the car's frame where they hacked out.
All that being said, to the best of my knowledge, there is no Saginaw pitman arm with the correct hole/taper to accept a stock FJ40 tie rod end (on the drag link at pitman arm). That is why every vendor that sells this arm also sells an SAE TRE and a special drag link that is threaded on one end metric and SAE on the other. That is not to say one couldn't bush or otherwise jury-rig something to 'work'.
One option is to buy this relay rod, SAE TRE and a Saginaw pitman arm of whatever configuration you desire. Downey, TPI, Advance Adapters and probably others as well all sell these items. I have gone this route on several trucks I have owned.
If you are dead-set on using the FJ40 TRE at the pitman arm, the only option I see is to buy whatever pitman arm you desire and take it to someone that can weld up the hole and ream it to the proper diameter/taper required by the FJ40 TRE. I have not had this done buy would imagine it would cost at least $100 when you are all done on this item alone. You will still need a custom relay rod that is the proper length and have the correct internal metric threads cut on each end. Add another $150-200.
If you want to go high steer or use larger one-ton or 80-series parts, non of the above apply. There are plenty of vendors that sell what you need.
Last, if you do go boneyard shopping, take your own tools (if they will allow) including a pitman arm puller, TRE puller/pickle fork, hammer and hand tools as I seriously doubt axeman with the blue-tipped wrench is going to be able to provide to you only this part. You may have to buy the entire steering box, etc. One time I bought a box/arm and they later handed me the steering box still attached to a section of the car's frame where they hacked out.
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pbgbottle
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that dodge powerwagon pitman arm looks very similiar to the arm i got from Luke at 4x4 labs .with my high steer kit. using the Chevy 1-Ton ends .
FWIW way back when years ago , not sure how safe it was . but i cut down my tie rod to like 26 inches or 26 1/4 inches or so ,ran a SAE tap down it .took my die grinder and made the split in the tube so the clamp could tighten down .threaded in a compatible tie rod end to match the pitman arm and it worked like a charm
![IMG_0115 [800x600].webp](https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/img_0115-800x600-webp.288213/ "IMG_0115 [800x600].webp")
FWIW way back when years ago , not sure how safe it was . but i cut down my tie rod to like 26 inches or 26 1/4 inches or so ,ran a SAE tap down it .took my die grinder and made the split in the tube so the clamp could tighten down .threaded in a compatible tie rod end to match the pitman arm and it worked like a charm
- Thread starter
- #24
Thanks for all the help. I am just trying to make up my mind as to what I want to do. It seems I have to get a tie rod, tre, & pitman arm any way I go about it, so now I guess the decision is whether or not to upgrade/replace all the rods & ends with big daddy's while I am in thier?
dgangle
total rice
Downey Off-Road
#45451 tre & relay rod and #99416 pitman arm $167.
Bigger stuff: no idea but you can be certain it will be significantly more. Bigger is better as they say but do you really need it being SUA?
Good luck and report back with what you end up doing.
#45451 tre & relay rod and #99416 pitman arm $167.
Bigger stuff: no idea but you can be certain it will be significantly more. Bigger is better as they say but do you really need it being SUA?
Good luck and report back with what you end up doing.
d gangle is right but the olds pitman arm takes the stock toyota tie rod and bolts right up .out west these cars are rare around here junk yards have several .also most yards have an iterchange book and that arm could have been used for years .however i do s*** the hard way so go with the popular vote here .by the way in 77 they didnt have bushings and downey also offered this pitman arm in their catalog i have used it and it works to bad its out of style good luck
- Thread starter
- #27
I think I will do a little more research to see who has the best deal for the tre & relay rod and pitman arm. I probably don't NEED the bigger stuff, especially if it is considerably more $. I will keep up with the post until I get the project finished. I might even post a few pics at the end if it turns out pretty...
dgangle
total rice
I have already done this for you 13 times! In case you missed it, it is Downey. Go buy the stuff, install it and enjoy it for many years. Next subject.
Downey
Well you might not have got blemarr's attention, but you sure got mine! Dgangle, Thanks for the help!
Well you might not have got blemarr's attention, but you sure got mine! Dgangle, Thanks for the help!
dgangle
total rice
Jim S,
PM'd ya back answering your questions.
PM'd ya back answering your questions.
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probably a really dumb question but does downey still offer a catalog thought they were long gone thanks
Thanks Jake. Couldn't have expected getting a picture, but that helps a lot. Sure does look the same
Most auto parts stores don't sell parts that don't wear out, so they aren't going to have pitman arms. Some dealers still carry the stuff. JC Whitney carries the 78 Bronco arm for a good price.
dgangle
total rice
Old thread I realize but I wanted to post up some pics and info on what I ended up using.
I tried both the straight pitman arm that comes with the AA or Downey Saginaw kits and a ~3.5" drop from a Cherokee but one was too hot and the other too cold as the 3 bears say. Pics of each side-by-side are shown earlier in this thread.
I ended up finding one at the boneyard that has ~1.5" drop and is 5.5" long. I am uncertain of the application as it was in a pile.
Using a 3.5 turn 3 bolt box this works well for me. Not oversensitive and enables steering from bumpstop to bumpstop without bottoming out the Saginaw steering box.
The only thing I would do differently if doing again would be to use a plate adapter for the box vs the cast mount and recessed the box into the front crossmember as much as practical to make the drag link more parallel to the tire rod.
I tried both the straight pitman arm that comes with the AA or Downey Saginaw kits and a ~3.5" drop from a Cherokee but one was too hot and the other too cold as the 3 bears say. Pics of each side-by-side are shown earlier in this thread.
I ended up finding one at the boneyard that has ~1.5" drop and is 5.5" long. I am uncertain of the application as it was in a pile.
Using a 3.5 turn 3 bolt box this works well for me. Not oversensitive and enables steering from bumpstop to bumpstop without bottoming out the Saginaw steering box.
The only thing I would do differently if doing again would be to use a plate adapter for the box vs the cast mount and recessed the box into the front crossmember as much as practical to make the drag link more parallel to the tire rod.
would stay away from downy, have had bad experiences in the past when i was doing my sag conversion. shipped damaged parts and didnt seem very inclined to do anything about it.
far as the arm goes...there is a jeep application that works i believe. i will try to find that notebook...
far as the arm goes...there is a jeep application that works i believe. i will try to find that notebook...
dgangle,
Would you anticipate any negative steering issues if using this same pitman arm on a 4.25 turn box? Any reason I would not get full lock to lock with this pitman arm and a 5.5" pitman arm? Should I try to find a longer arm than 5.5"?
What relay rod and pitman TRE are you using?
Are you running a steering stabilizer on the tie rod? Looks like there might be one behind the rod? What benefits does it offer for your set-up?
Thanks for posting this info. Your contributions to this and many other threads are greatly appreciated.
Would you anticipate any negative steering issues if using this same pitman arm on a 4.25 turn box? Any reason I would not get full lock to lock with this pitman arm and a 5.5" pitman arm? Should I try to find a longer arm than 5.5"?
What relay rod and pitman TRE are you using?
Are you running a steering stabilizer on the tie rod? Looks like there might be one behind the rod? What benefits does it offer for your set-up?
Thanks for posting this info. Your contributions to this and many other threads are greatly appreciated.
dgangle
total rice
No, I see no negative steering issues on a 4.25 turn box.
No, a longer pitman arm has a longer 'throw' which may cause the knuckles to hit the stops/locks with less turns of the wheel in my reasoning but the 4.25 box will take more turns of the wheel to get there. It may further slow down the steering characteristics but as I have said before mine behaves very well/predictable.
My pitman arm is 5.5" long. I have found the 3 varying drop pitman arms I had were all basically the same length (overall before bending) as far as I can tell. The bend make the CL to CL distance shorter because of the bend. Others have posted up the Dodge truck application that claim to be ~7" CL to CL which would make the steering faster but the 4.25 box should slow that down. There are an unlimited number of combinations all with varying end results. I know what I have is very predictable, has good manners and utilizes the full range of motion required. The 3-something boxes are abundant and inexpensive. I have used them on several FJ40 Sag conversions that I have owned/driven since the early 80's.
I am using the Downey relay rod and TRE at the pitman arm and a stock tie rod/ TRE's.
Yes, I have a steering stabilizer. I welded a stationary mount of the diff housing just to the driver's side of the pumpkin/chunk/3rd member and use the generic clamp on the tie rod for the other end. Benefits? I don't know but the stock set-up had one so it can;t be all bad. I am certianly not using it to cover up any other shortcomings of the steering or alignment geometry.
You are welcome. I look forward to meeting you at the next Cruiser Crawl as I live ~ 20 miles from Gardendale and hope to make one someday. Just don't count on me fording the lake like Badass!
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dgangle
total rice
here's one showing more of how I mounted my steering stabilizer
