Pinion Crush Sleeve Reality (2 Viewers)

[calen]

So I have been feeling a super subtle vibe when letting off the gas going down hill over 100kmh. it is very subtle like running over a patch of ruff road. I though it was maybe bad u joint and took the shaft off t check and found that there is a tiny amount of movement between the pinion flange and pinion. This makes me think the nut is loose, even though it is staked. It looks like the stake job still slowed it to move a small bit. Im no diff expert, so I have done a bunch of reading and. Get mixed information regarding the crush sleeve or lack of crush sleeve in a 40 series diff. some people say 40's don't have crush sleeves and use solid spacers and shims, yet. Read a lot of discussion of crush sleeves and see crush sleeve included in diff rebuild kits. so which is it? sleeve or spacer?



that all being said, If I have a spacer in there. can I just torque that nut back down and stake it properly? can anyone also tell me what the torque spec would be for the pinion nut on a 82 hj47? I have no FSM.

Thank you!!

 

[charliemeyer007]

No info the Haynes manual I could find = "torque to specified" was all it said.

Good luck. Nice vid too.

 

[B y r o n]

Check out post #15 here.

 

[calen]

Thanks! looking at the diagram of the rear diff there doesn't appear t one a crush sleeve in there. but can anyone that has taken a rear diff apart confirm crush or solid?

 

[B y r o n]

This will let you see why you don't need a crush sleeve:

The pinon on the right is a factory pinion. No crush sleeve required.

 

[calen]

This will let you see why you don't need a crush sleeve:

View attachment 3378125

The pinon on the right is a factory pinion. No crush sleeve required.

I don't know if I understand? first off I need to know if 40's use or don't use crush sleeves to begin with. cause I am trying to determine if mine does or does not have one without dissasembling. the answer is simple if all 40's use only shims. but no one has answered this yet. so I dont really understand what you image is showing me.

 

[B y r o n]

The picture above is from a '73 FJ-40. You mentioned that when you looked at a diagram of your 3rd member it didn't appear to have a crush sleeve. The reason it would need a crush sleeve is because the bearing would rest against the step on the pinion shaft. If you look at the pinion on the right you will notice it doesn't have that shelf on the shaft for the bearing to rest against, hence a crush or solid sleeve is needed. I opted for a solid sleeve as crush sleeves are use once and replace.

According to SOR a crush sleeve was not used until after 11/84.

 

[calen]

The picture above is from a '73 FJ-40. You mentioned that when you looked at a diagram of your 3rd member it didn't appear to have a crush sleeve. The reason it would need a crush sleeve is because the bearing would rest against the step on the pinion shaft. If you look at the pinion on the right you will notice it doesn't have that shelf on the shaft for the bearing to rest against, hence a crush or solid sleeve is needed. I opted for a solid sleeve as crush sleeves are use once and replace.

According to SOR a crush sleeve was not used until after 11/84.

hmmm, Im still a little confused. it might be your wording. when you say you "opted" for a solid spacer. I dont know if I understand why you needed to "opt" as opposed to just "have" a solid spacer, if that is a factory pinion. like shouldn't your truck have come with a spacer as it is before 84 and there would be no need to change anything as it would just have a solid spacer?

so im an 82, so that should mean that it is a solid spacer style right? does that then mean I can just torque the nut down to 143- 173 ft lbs (body chasis manual) right now to tighten it? I know the splines on either the pinion or the flange are ruined in order to allow that movement and need to be replaced but id like to crank it down in the mean time.

instead of rebuilding the diff, i might just look for a good used 3rd member. Is there a difference in the diff if your axle is full or semi floating? mine is full. also will a 88 fj60 3rd member bolt to my housing? good to use it as long as its got 4.11 gears yeah?

THanks!

 

[B y r o n]

hmmm, Im still a little confused. it might be your wording. when you say you "opted" for a solid spacer. I dont know if I understand why you needed to "opt" as opposed to just "have" a solid spacer, if that is a factory pinion. like shouldn't your truck have come with a spacer as it is before 84 and there would be no need to change anything as it would just have a solid spacer?

so im an 82, so that should mean that it is a solid spacer style right? does that then mean I can just torque the nut down to 143- 173 ft lbs (body chasis manual) right now to tighten it? I know the splines on either the pinion or the flange are ruined in order to allow that movement and need to be replaced but id like to crank it down in the mean time.

instead of rebuilding the diff, i might just look for a good used 3rd member. Is there a difference in the diff if your axle is full or semi floating? mine is full. also will a 88 fj60 3rd member bolt to my housing? good to use it as long as its got 4.11 gears yeah?

THanks!

I rebuilt both my 3rd members and installed ARB's in both. I bought my new gears from Nitro which is the pinion on the left. They are not built with the shelf you see on the factory pinion on the right. Because of this you have two options, a crush sleeve or a solid spacer. Most kit will provide 2 crush sleeves because when you are setting things the first gets crushed and since things aren't exactly right the first time you have to take things apart. Once you take things apart you then have to replace the crush sleeve. A solid spacer doesn't crush and is more like the factory pinion so things can be taken apart and reassembled as many times as necessary and you don't have to replace it.

You can see what is involved in a rebuild at Zuk's site here.

 

[pb4ugo]

hmmm, Im still a little confused. it might be your wording. when you say you "opted" for a solid spacer. I dont know if I understand why you needed to "opt" as opposed to just "have" a solid spacer, if that is a factory pinion. like shouldn't your truck have come with a spacer as it is before 84 and there would be no need to change anything as it would just have a solid spacer?

so im an 82, so that should mean that it is a solid spacer style right? does that then mean I can just torque the nut down to 143- 173 ft lbs (body chasis manual) right now to tighten it? I know the splines on either the pinion or the flange are ruined in order to allow that movement and need to be replaced but id like to crank it down in the mean time.

instead of rebuilding the diff, i might just look for a good used 3rd member. Is there a difference in the diff if your axle is full or semi floating? mine is full. also will a 88 fj60 3rd member bolt to my housing? good to use it as long as its got 4.11 gears yeah?

THanks!

If in fact you know your 3rd member has a solid spacer, yes you can tighten the nut to spec and stake it. Are you certain the 3rd Is original to the vehicle?

A 1988 fj60 would have 3.70:1 gear ratios.
According to this thread the 1988 3rd would have a crush sleeve. Not that, that matters.

 

[calen]

I rebuilt both my 3rd members and installed ARB's in both. I bought my new gears from Nitro which is the pinion on the left. They are not built with the shelf you see on the factory pinion on the right. Because of this you have two options, a crush sleeve or a solid spacer. Most kit will provide 2 crush sleeves because when you are setting things the first gets crushed and since things aren't exactly right the first time you have to take things apart. Once you take things apart you then have to replace the crush sleeve. A solid spacer doesn't crush and is more like the factory pinion so things can be taken apart and reassembled as many times as necessary and you don't have to replace it.

You can see what is involved in a rebuild at Zuk's site here.

ok, im understanding better now. so if my diff is as it should be according to SOR and has a solid spacer NOT a crush sleeve, then I should be able to re tighten it? if I take it apart and it turns out to have a crush sleeve, does that mean I have to replace the ring and pinion to get a solid spacer? or can it be aded to a pinion that previously had a crush sleeve?

Thanks so much.

 

[Malleus]

Have you ever read the FSM?

 

[calen]

Have you ever read the FSM?

no I have not, i Have no manuals of any kind other then a body chasis manual I downloaded yesterday. what part exactly do you recommend if I can get my hands on one?

 

[Malleus]

The FJ40 chassis and body factory service manual is a complete manual. The engine service manual is a separate volume. You can rebuild the entire truck with these two manuals, and a sufficient supply of skin and money.

The HJ45 chassis & body manual is in the Resources section. Here's one source for the manual you want:

I didn't look too deeply; there should be others.

Reprints are readily available; you must specify the year of your truck to get the correct publication.

 

[calen]

The FJ40 chassis and body factory service manual is a complete manual. The engine service manual is a separate volume. You can rebuild the entire truck with these two manuals, and a sufficient supply of skin and money.

The HJ45 chassis & body manual is in the Resources section. Here's one source for the manual you want:
View attachment 3378678
I didn't look too deeply; there should be others.

Reprints are readily available; you must specify the year of your truck to get the correct publication.

ok, yeah I have a version of that downloaded. doesnt have a date window though. jsut says 1980. mines an 82?

 

[Steamer]

In your video, it appears to be some play/slop in the splines. Watch the difference in rotation of the yoke compared to the pinion.
However, I do not know how much, if any, play is acceptable.

 

[calen]

In your video, it appears to be some play/slop in the splines. Watch the difference in rotation of the yoke compared to the pinion.
However, I do not know how much, if any, play is acceptable.

hahaha, yes, this is the whole purpose of this thread. trying to determine the cause of that specific play and how to fix it, while having the car down for the least amount of time.

 

[Steamer]

hahaha, yes, this is the whole purpose of this thread. trying to determine the cause of that specific play and how to fix it, while having the car down for the least amount of time.

My bad. I should have read your post more carefully.

 

[calen]

My bad. I should have read your post more carefully.

haha no no all good. ida probably made the same mistake