This! Agree 100 percent.
I would argue that the TJ was mostly unchanged through '06 so not sure why '02-'03 marks a downward turn. The newest iteration of the Wrangler (JK) indeed does have power windows, locks, leather and lots of plastic...kinda' like an 80, 100, 200 series LC, right? Toyota has been doing this crap since '91. Jeep held the utilitarian line for another 16 years past the point when Toyota made the change to start producing luxury vehicles. I guess they just finally gave in and sold out to the luxury market but at least they kept the solid front axle. Is an 80 not a LC because it has leather? Is a 100 not a LC because it has IFS? The JK is a Jeep. It's plastic fantastic...but it is a Jeep at heart.
Your employee who bought a brand new Rubicon has a very capable off road vehicle but he will probably never use it off road. Neither will 99.9 percent of owners of brand new 200 series LC's or LX's. Anyone who can afford to buy a new Rubicon IS all that and a bag of chips. Same can be said for the guy who goes out and buys a new LX570. I know I can't.
You hit the nail on the head when it comes to the LC community though. You guys are great. This club is fantastic...and I'm proud to be a part of it.
First, I say 2002-03 because the first "sign" was when they brought over the plastic window sprayers over from the XJ. If I remember correctly, it started mid year production in 2002. The next model year is when they started doing their plastic covers over the roll cage. That for me was a HUGE turn off. I am old school, so I liked the medal with the thing little padding. Yes it hurt like hell when my head hit it when I would go off roading, but was part of the experience I guess. Then they started adding plastic around the front window frame. Then the side mirrors were plastic, then plastic covers on the tail gate swing out, so on and so on.
Second, for me I cannot even compare a JK to a LC. I mean no offense by that at all. To me I am not even comparing the two in my head when I made my earlier statement. My comments above were about comparing Jeeps to Jeeps. As I have been a Jeep guy for many years. Just to me, Jeeps are dead because they are so far away from what they are supposed to be in my opinion. I originally got my first TJ in 98 because the previous two years I flipped a few 40's and I loved the idea of having a reliable 40 like vehicle while I am in college.
**Guys don't kill me I am not saying a TJ is as good as a 40**
When I was in college I didn't have time to constantly be working on my own personal vehicle so my DD was a TJ for my last two years of school. I wish Toyota still would make something like a 40, that's why I flipped out the first time I saw a PX10. I literally almost pissed on myself.
Certainly, not arguing that Rubicons are capable. I have a lot of time behind the wheel of the TJ Rubicon's so I can imagine what its like now and especially with the longer wheelbase. Unfortunately, my employee perfectly fits the stereotype of those who typically people buy these things. He didn't go two weeks without making his first s***tybuilt purchase. I had to explain to him what a mall crawler is and he admitted as much because it will never see off road other than the beach.
To me, there are just a worlds of difference between the typical 99.9 percent LC/LX owners and those that are in the "community." So I just don't even consider the soccer moms of the world who own them when I ever make any of my statements.
My apologies, for any confusion, again I was really comparing current Jeeps to Jeeps of old.
That got me back onto the path of toyotas again, and now I'm one of those who deem 4wd like most deem AC, darn near necessary, even if mine are not used for hardcore crawling.
