OME (original, not BP-51) or Tough Dog?
- Thread starter Chip503
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SQRRRL
SILVER Star
I went TD from Jason @ TrailTailor. Very happy. 40mm lift front. 20mm lift rear. No UCA needed.
Tough Dog 45mm adjustables all the way. Being able to adjust the compression to soften or stiffen the ride depending on your load is worth the $500 more.
Really? No UCA? You were able to get okay caster?
SQRRRL
SILVER Star
I’ve had the TD for about 2 years now. No issue. Lift is mild.
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
I have personally never seen an OME nitro shock fail, but I have seen a TD foam cell fail. Blew its oil, lost all dampening, was 8 months old. However, I’m sure there are failed OME nitro’s out there.
I prefer OME because there are more small changes between a larger selection of rear springs than what Tough Dog offers. Tough dog offers three rear spring options where OME offers five.
On top of that, when asking for the rear spring design. I kept getting information from TD that the top of the rear coil springs has wraps that are much closer together with less free heigh between them.
I’ve had springs like that in the past, and they annoy the hell out of me because the spring slaps itself when compressed quickly. And when loaded heavy, and going down 15-20 mph overland routes that have enough bumps to keep it interesting. You get to hear a nice metallic bang. Now, do these actually do that? Don’t know, but knowing that was how they were designed (at least what a conversation from TD told me), I stayed away from them based on prior experiences.
I did buy a rear panhard rod from TT about a year and half ago, and I was less than impressed with the bushings, and how they were pressed. Just looked kinda amateur. But hey, it does it’s job.
I think Tough Dog is fine, many here seem to like it, but I feel it is more because Trail Tailor pushes it and his customer service and speed of shipping is great, so why not buy suspension he resales? I would, especially if I was having bumpers made by him. Just get what you need from one place.
Anyway, that’s my worthless opinion. OME.
I prefer OME because there are more small changes between a larger selection of rear springs than what Tough Dog offers. Tough dog offers three rear spring options where OME offers five.
On top of that, when asking for the rear spring design. I kept getting information from TD that the top of the rear coil springs has wraps that are much closer together with less free heigh between them.
I’ve had springs like that in the past, and they annoy the hell out of me because the spring slaps itself when compressed quickly. And when loaded heavy, and going down 15-20 mph overland routes that have enough bumps to keep it interesting. You get to hear a nice metallic bang. Now, do these actually do that? Don’t know, but knowing that was how they were designed (at least what a conversation from TD told me), I stayed away from them based on prior experiences.
I did buy a rear panhard rod from TT about a year and half ago, and I was less than impressed with the bushings, and how they were pressed. Just looked kinda amateur. But hey, it does it’s job.
I think Tough Dog is fine, many here seem to like it, but I feel it is more because Trail Tailor pushes it and his customer service and speed of shipping is great, so why not buy suspension he resales? I would, especially if I was having bumpers made by him. Just get what you need from one place.
Anyway, that’s my worthless opinion. OME.
Just to throw out another option that I have not seen discussed on here. I am running the Dobinson "med" kit. offers 50mm of lift front and rear. Could not be happier with the ride quality. I have run OME on my 5th gen 4runner and had zero complaints. I don't think you can go wrong with any option.
Where did you get your kit? Part numbers to share? What tire size in the picture?
Markuson
SILVER Star
Curious what you wish the TT P rod physically changed. I’ve debated adding a rear PR but thinking my lift probably isn’t tall enough to justify the adjustment.
In other news...Rear control arm is bent...so will be looking to replace it soon.
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
I was getting a tad of pull that I wasn’t able keep within alignment specs that I agree with.
I needed to shift the rear axle 42mm to the right to center it with 350 pounds in the back.
Did it help? Technical yes, but only because I was happy with my alignment setup. But the drivability was the same as I adjust preload on the BPs to take a tad of force off the front left wheel with fixed the tad but of pull.
Separate of that, your control arms. So... like skids plates, anyone can bolt something on that’s WAY stronger, and now it’s stronger than the frame. The factory arms are pretty strong. And if something is going to bend, let it be the cheap control arm, not the welded on mounts.
I put SPC rear arms on that are .188 DOM (it May be Chinese metal, which is not as strong, but still .188 DOM is no joke). I would never go stronger than that on a toyota frame (even with a 200). Something to think about.
Josh @ Apex Overland ordered the kit and also did the install. He is very knowledgeable and does fantastic work.
Set up is as follows:
C59-542 Front springs
C59-545 Rear springs
10mm spring spacer
Dobinson Shocks all around
SPC UCA’s
305/65/18 BFG’s pictured
SQRRRL
SILVER Star
Are you running these? I’m very interested. Maybe when I replace the TD?
I am running just the standard shocks. It’s just like the basic OME kit but with a softer ride.
In hindsight I wish I would of gone with those because I like the dobinson kit that much. You can’t go wrong with the basic setup like I have also. Absolutely ZERO complaints.
I just replaced my OME lift (2" kit w/heavy springs all around and OEM UCAs) after 90k hard miles including Moab, all over CO, and pretty much every trail system on the east coast. I never had an issue and will run OME kits on my other LCs down the road
I can't really comment on failures. Seeing one fail is anecdotal. Unless there is something obvious in the design which you can see clearly caused the failure like an undersized rod or bushing, you really need a large sample size to know if that's a quality or design issue or just a fluke. (I'm not discounting what you've seen... I would probably feel the same way based on my singular experience)
I've been happy with the TD adjustable performance once I got it dialed in, but I have to agree at least on the TD instructions being amateurish. I ended up doing my rear springs (and my alignment) twice because they assured me the taller spring goes on the driver's side in the US. No, it doesn't, it goes on the side with the gas tank in all countries. I think Jason advises folks to ignore the TD instructions now and put the taller spring on the gas tank size, but still that was a disappointment.
I have to agree that some different spring options for TD would be nice. Then again there's no reason you can't use OME rear springs with the TD shocks. No coil-to-coil contact in my rear springs, even when bouncing around like mad when towing a heavy load, but I also have air bags in the rear.
I've put close to 25k miles on mine and I'm very pleased with their performance for the money. I've heard a lot of complaints about the newer OME Nitrocharger shocks being too stiff, but with the adjustable compression setting on mine I've been able to dial them in as my setup changes. That said if I hadn't gone with the 45mm adjustables, I would look at the standard OME Nitros as they are cheaper and I suspect the ride would be similar enough to the 40mm non-adjustable TD shocks that I would have preferred the OME spring options.
Just returned from a 1200 mile round trip journey traveling back roads that consisted of various types of terrain. This really broke in my new TD suspension (41mm foam cell fronts and 660# rear coils with 41mm rear shocks), and I have to say that the ride is almost as comfy as stock.. even with my KM3's. As stated, it aligned perfectly with no UCA, but I would definitely suggest installing the OEM front coil spacer if you want it to sit level though. (part no. 43136-60020)
Orange Hat
SILVER Star
At how many inches of lift is a new (or adjustable) panhard needed/required/suggested? Also, where was the 42 mm measured from?...I sometimes “feel” an adjustable panhard would give me a more linear ride (seems to crabwalk at opposite corners thru dips and turns but could all be in my head) but everything visually looks ok.
I installed a Tough Dog kit on my 2016 last month and have been very pleased so far - lots of details in this thread:
Tough Dog Suspension and Slee Slider Install
The main reason I chose TD over OME was for the adjustable shocks (I only got adjustable rears) and the reports of a softer, less harsh ride. I’ve never been in another 200 with an aftermarket suspension, so unfortunately I have nothing to compare my setup to. I have run OME kits in the past on other Toyota’s and been pleased, just wanted to try something different - as someone else mentioned I don’t think you can go wrong with either option.
In regard to the ride comfort, know that the TD kit is definitely firmer than stock - not uncomfortable but not nearly as plush. I think that change will happen with any aftermarket suspension but seems to get downplayed because everyone wants to be positive about their new setup. Also, I did add aftermarket UCA’s because I kept my 1” front spacer when my TD kit was installed. If you’re adding the front spacer I think it will be very hard to get alignment in spec with factory UCA’s (unless you’ve got weight up front), just something to keep in mind.
Tough Dog Suspension and Slee Slider Install
The main reason I chose TD over OME was for the adjustable shocks (I only got adjustable rears) and the reports of a softer, less harsh ride. I’ve never been in another 200 with an aftermarket suspension, so unfortunately I have nothing to compare my setup to. I have run OME kits in the past on other Toyota’s and been pleased, just wanted to try something different - as someone else mentioned I don’t think you can go wrong with either option.
In regard to the ride comfort, know that the TD kit is definitely firmer than stock - not uncomfortable but not nearly as plush. I think that change will happen with any aftermarket suspension but seems to get downplayed because everyone wants to be positive about their new setup. Also, I did add aftermarket UCA’s because I kept my 1” front spacer when my TD kit was installed. If you’re adding the front spacer I think it will be very hard to get alignment in spec with factory UCA’s (unless you’ve got weight up front), just something to keep in mind.
I have the 1” OEM spacers and it aligned perfectly within specs. Im not sure how many miles youve driven in the past month, or what kind of miles, but i think the new suspension definitely softens up a bit once broken in. Maybe not as plush, but it still rides better than my Tundra. @tarheel40
Anecdotally, my (and immediate family's) OME nitros and springs have seen 15 years+ of service without failure or compromise on FJ40's and 80's. Impressive, but would still consider Dobs or TD if I thought their specific kit fit my vehicle and needs.
