So started the dreaded oil cover job, some screws came out fine others not so much. Went with the “let me just drill the cover off and buy a $23 one. It went well but got a little carried away and drill into the oil pump itself. How bad did I mess up? Should I change the oil pump? Or will putting some JB weld in there help me prevent any leaks?
Oil pump cover how bad did I ****ed up
- Thread starter landingtheLC
- Start date
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You're lucky. All the wood-peckering is on the non-pressureized side of the o-ring.
I'd guess you'll be OK to clean it up, back fill with J-B Weld and it will stay oil tight.
How you're going to keep it out of the o-ring groove is another problem.
I'd guess you'll be OK to clean it up, back fill with J-B Weld and it will stay oil tight.
How you're going to keep it out of the o-ring groove is another problem.
OMFG!
Do you have a problem with hitting the right hole with the GF too?
You can recover here too. Fortunately, all of your issues are outside the O-Ring, even though a couple have compromised the seal channel.
Get the last screw out.
Use a flat file and smooth the entire surface SLIGHTLY enough to take off all the burrs made by the drill. You lay it flat across the ENTIRE surface, not just on the area you jacked the surface.
Yes, you can use JB Weld to fill those craters, but you'll need to fill them, then smooth them off at the same time you do the previous statement. make sure you clean the craters with Brakleen before you put in the JB weld so it will actually stick.
You will need to run a tap into all those holes to clean out the threads.
Make damn sure to keep all metal particles out of the gear area as well as any other debris, as that is the heart of the oil feed to your engine. Any debris in there goes to your bearings.
What does the oil pump cover piece look like? Did you turn it into swiss cheese also?
Also, that is the oil pump HOUSING you drilled into which is part of the timing cover. To replace that, you need to pull the engine. It's also not $23.00
Maybe in the future, you should consider paying someone else to do the work.
- Thread starter
- #5
No I was referring to the oil pump cover is not in the picture. I wasn’t suppose to hit the timing cover hahaha
- Thread starter
- #6
Since I started this project I haven’t been near any of my GFs holes hahaha. It was the angle I was doing it with the Radiator on I should had taken it out first place. All the screws came out well after I took the cover off. They’re all working good only issue is the wholes in the timing cover.
Main thing is to first remove the broken off screw.
Have you tried an EasyOut or Grab It?
Having said that and looking at the carnage I would not suggest the OP attempt to fix anything with power tools or taps, it could make things worse.
To clean up the holes there are clean out taps (thread restorers) that you screw in by hand that remove gunk but won't cut new threads
@landingtheLC : if new screws will go into those threads ie: a test fit before you install a new pump cover you won't need to use a tap or thread restorer. I would just blow them out with brake cleaner (cover your eyes and/or look away as the cleaner will blow straight back at your face!!)
The critical suface is the flat area where the oil pump cover clamps down onto the corresponding mating surface of the timing cover, but that doesn't look that bad and FIPG may be work well along with the O-ring IMHO
As mentioned above JB Weld could work but as mentioned the damaged is on the outside of the O-ring. But for that area it might be hard to keep it in place ie: the JB Weld will want to slump or slide downward. That could be fixed later with a dremel if too much got into the gland for the O-ring but again, difficult to work in that area for anyone and too easy to damage the soft aluminum. So I would not suggest using a dremel.
@landingtheLC : a safer option, if needed at all?? might be to use FIPG (form in place gasket maker) to fill the damaged areas after everything is completely degreased with brake cleaner for example
Technically, nothing should get into the gland or interfere with the movement of the O-ring but FWIW (to ensure a long term seal) I've used an extremely small amount of FIPG placed on the outer rim of the face of the oil pump cover just before installing the cover. I do this by putting the gasket maker on my finger first then scrape a small amount off as I work around the edge of the pump cover mating surface (note: this is not the Factory Method, just the way I've done it YMMV). Whichever way you do it, you do not want to get the gasket maker to squeeze out into the pump rotor.
One tip: after you've got the new O-ring into the groove/gland, to help get the cover on evenly, I've taken longer screws of the same thread (?M6 x1mm IIRC) and cut the heads off (made my own studs) then threaded a couple of those into a couple of holes. That allows you to "hang" the cover first then slide it back into place without the cover sliding/slipping around and disturbing the O-ring. if that makes sense, then start installing the screws and remove the studs.
Note: the use of a small amount of gasket maker for the oil pump cover may be controversial and it's not recommended or mentioned in the FSM, it's just something some people including myself have used to help ensure a long term seal. FWIW.
Have you tried an EasyOut or Grab It?
Having said that and looking at the carnage I would not suggest the OP attempt to fix anything with power tools or taps, it could make things worse.
To clean up the holes there are clean out taps (thread restorers) that you screw in by hand that remove gunk but won't cut new threads
@landingtheLC : if new screws will go into those threads ie: a test fit before you install a new pump cover you won't need to use a tap or thread restorer. I would just blow them out with brake cleaner (cover your eyes and/or look away as the cleaner will blow straight back at your face!!)
The critical suface is the flat area where the oil pump cover clamps down onto the corresponding mating surface of the timing cover, but that doesn't look that bad and FIPG may be work well along with the O-ring IMHO
As mentioned above JB Weld could work but as mentioned the damaged is on the outside of the O-ring. But for that area it might be hard to keep it in place ie: the JB Weld will want to slump or slide downward. That could be fixed later with a dremel if too much got into the gland for the O-ring but again, difficult to work in that area for anyone and too easy to damage the soft aluminum. So I would not suggest using a dremel.
@landingtheLC : a safer option, if needed at all?? might be to use FIPG (form in place gasket maker) to fill the damaged areas after everything is completely degreased with brake cleaner for example
Technically, nothing should get into the gland or interfere with the movement of the O-ring but FWIW (to ensure a long term seal) I've used an extremely small amount of FIPG placed on the outer rim of the face of the oil pump cover just before installing the cover. I do this by putting the gasket maker on my finger first then scrape a small amount off as I work around the edge of the pump cover mating surface (note: this is not the Factory Method, just the way I've done it YMMV). Whichever way you do it, you do not want to get the gasket maker to squeeze out into the pump rotor.
One tip: after you've got the new O-ring into the groove/gland, to help get the cover on evenly, I've taken longer screws of the same thread (?M6 x1mm IIRC) and cut the heads off (made my own studs) then threaded a couple of those into a couple of holes. That allows you to "hang" the cover first then slide it back into place without the cover sliding/slipping around and disturbing the O-ring. if that makes sense, then start installing the screws and remove the studs.
Note: the use of a small amount of gasket maker for the oil pump cover may be controversial and it's not recommended or mentioned in the FSM, it's just something some people including myself have used to help ensure a long term seal. FWIW.
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- Thread starter
- #8
Oh keeping the JBweld out of the o-ring grove that’s a good point I don’t think I want them mixing up. What about just using one of those gasket makers and filing it up with that instead of Jbweld ?
"What about just using one of those gasket makers and filing it up with that instead of Jbweld ?"
Read post #7 above. You can use Toyota's "Seal Packing" 00295-00103 (Seal Packing 103) or any of the other similar gasket maker products, everyone has their favorite like Permatex Ultra Black, Permatex The Right Stuff, etc, etc
www.permatex.com
Read post #7 above. You can use Toyota's "Seal Packing" 00295-00103 (Seal Packing 103) or any of the other similar gasket maker products, everyone has their favorite like Permatex Ultra Black, Permatex The Right Stuff, etc, etc
Permatex® Ultra Black® RTV Silicone Gasket Maker, 3 OZ - Permatex
www.permatex.com
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- Thread starter
- #10
Okay thanks a lot
Okay thanks a lot for all this appreciate it. Yeah I got a bit carried away with the drill I should had taken the radiator etc earlier to get a better angle. But yeah all screws came out fine and just did a test run like you mentioned with new screws and they’re all going in good. I am going to get one of those gasket makers and use it to fill the holes like you mentioned.
I’ve had stuck screws on many an oil pump job.
If a screw strips out I keep at it until it’s really striped out. Then take 7/32 drill and start drilling the screw out. The 7/32 drill is roughly the same diameter as the screw and once it severs the head from the screw the head just spins and drilling stops.
You can’t drill too deep this way.
If a screw strips out I keep at it until it’s really striped out. Then take 7/32 drill and start drilling the screw out. The 7/32 drill is roughly the same diameter as the screw and once it severs the head from the screw the head just spins and drilling stops.
You can’t drill too deep this way.
JIS bit is a better fit.
Been discussed a lot on the past but FWIW here it is again: many Phillips type bits are the wrong profile for the OEM Cross Head JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) screws, the Phillips bits IME are too pointy and are likely to damage the OEM JIS screw head.
However if you look around and compare bits there are some Phillips bits that will fit snugly into the OEM JIS screw slots, some that fit are more paddle shaped ie: the blades bow outward some and may have little ridges on the blades (anti-cam-out). IME it's best to take a new OEM screw and test fit different Phillips bits until you find a bit that fits snugly (or, just buy some JIS bits). Sometimes it take a few taps to both seat the bit into the JIS screws but also the tapping can help loosen the screws that might have some corrosion holding them in place. Don't tap too hard as that can break the head off the screws (they can be removed later however).
I've used a long ratcheting 3/8 drive breaker bar, press in hard to hold the bit in place and then quickly pull/snap the ratchet to break the screws free one at a time. I've also used a cordless FUEL Milwaukee Impact drill driver with a bit in a 1/4" socket and that has worked also. Key is cleaning out the slots of the old screws, tapping the bit to both seat it and help break any corrosion, then pressing/holding the tool and bit very snugly into the screw before you hit the go button.
However if you look around and compare bits there are some Phillips bits that will fit snugly into the OEM JIS screw slots, some that fit are more paddle shaped ie: the blades bow outward some and may have little ridges on the blades (anti-cam-out). IME it's best to take a new OEM screw and test fit different Phillips bits until you find a bit that fits snugly (or, just buy some JIS bits). Sometimes it take a few taps to both seat the bit into the JIS screws but also the tapping can help loosen the screws that might have some corrosion holding them in place. Don't tap too hard as that can break the head off the screws (they can be removed later however).
I've used a long ratcheting 3/8 drive breaker bar, press in hard to hold the bit in place and then quickly pull/snap the ratchet to break the screws free one at a time. I've also used a cordless FUEL Milwaukee Impact drill driver with a bit in a 1/4" socket and that has worked also. Key is cleaning out the slots of the old screws, tapping the bit to both seat it and help break any corrosion, then pressing/holding the tool and bit very snugly into the screw before you hit the go button.
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Either way, point is to get a screwdriver impact. Most people don’t have an impact like this, few hammer taps and they are out and in. The bit is moot in most cases but if we want to beat our technical chests then sure it’s a JIS. I’ll continue to use the philips. Some people swap for Allen or Torx bolts at this time as well.
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FWIW I've never used a JIS bit although they are available online. As mention above I go out and test fit different Phillips bits (because I usually can't find the bit that worked well the last time) until I find one that fits snug. Some people have ground off the pointy tip of a Phillips bits so they fit deeper into
the JIS Crosshead screws.
Take your pick (I generally use the shorter 1" bits):
Links for future reference:
Compare the JIS Crosshead bit below to some Phillips (above) which are similar:
the JIS Crosshead screws.
Take your pick (I generally use the shorter 1" bits):
Links for future reference:
Compare the JIS Crosshead bit below to some Phillips (above) which are similar:
I don't think you can even get JIS anymore- it was sunsetted back in like 2006. Even the vessel stuff you order from japan isn't "true" JIS and it's whatever new standard they use.
Another note I've used a hex impact twice with the "JIS" vessel bits. Hammered in too- still had 2-3 strip. Think it's just inevitable. Always order a new cover when you do it and keep left handed drill bits to pull the stripped ones out.
Another note I've used a hex impact twice with the "JIS" vessel bits. Hammered in too- still had 2-3 strip. Think it's just inevitable. Always order a new cover when you do it and keep left handed drill bits to pull the stripped ones out.
Fear of screwing this job up is what had me buy an electric screw impact driver. Worked perfectly on both 80s. I've used it literally a hundred times since. Stripped phillips are a thing of the past in my world. Since it's also a 90 degree tool with a small head, it fits everywhere a normal screwdriver cannot. Possibly the most used tool in my arsenal.
I've had my eye on the Milwaukee M12 right angle impact as I already have a few of the M12 tools
@IdahoDoug : is this what you use or ??
www.milwaukeetool.com
@IdahoDoug : is this what you use or ??
M12™ 1/4" Hex Right Angle Impact Driver Kit
www.milwaukeetool.com
