Oil consumption report on Mobil 1 0w-40

[turbocruiser]

[quote author=greglomax link=board=2;threadid=15882;start=msg151976#msg151976 date=1083877008]

Is there any direct correlation between engine wear and oil change intervals?
[/quote]

I will try to summarize the take home message that the esteemed Cary explained which is that the additive package can spike out abruptly in effectiveness and that as a result, we all approximate when we should replace oil based on how close to that abrupt spike out we want to get. I guess its frugality vs. fear; we all decide how much fear is a factor and whenever that is, that is when we replace oil. Now Cary has sent in samples from analysis and as a result he KNOWS that 7500 is fine, at least for his rig, based on the analysis and the amount of the additive package left over. On my next change which is in about one hundred miles, I am sending my oil in to see how much, if any, the turbo affects the oil.

 

[cary]

Turbocruiser has it correct on a basic level.

Generally what you will see is that the particulates measured in the oil increase in a relatively linear fashion, until the additive package for the oil runs out (TBN <1), at which time the oil wear metals will spike and continue to climb rapidly. What most people don't realize is that wear actually drops slightly as the oil is used, up to the point where it spikes. Idealy, you want to use the oil right until the point where the addtive pack runs out. The problem is there is no way to tell without oil analysis.

So what is a safe change interval. It depends. It is a function of driving conditions, oil capacity, oil used, tempuratures encountered, engine design, etc. Some motors (the 4 cyl and 6 cyl toyota sludgemonsters) can break down a mineral oil in 3000 miles, but they are pretty rare. From what I have seen you can make some very broad generalizations:

1) A good Synthetic (Mobil 1) will go about twice as long as a good mineral oil.
2) Generally, you are safe doing 5000 mile oil changes on Mineral and 7500 mile changes on synthetic.
3) Never change your oil less than a year.

Bottom line is most people are wasting their money on 3000 mile oil changes. In Europe where they are very concerned about the enviroment, most manufactures are specifying Synthetic Oil with 10,000+ mile changes (Mercedes is up to 18,500 mile max interval). Many argue that it is a waste to use synth every 7500 miles at $5 a quart. I tell them the extra $20 that I spend (since they will change twice at $12 for oil and filter (if they use the really cheap stuff) and I once at $45 for oil and filter) is well ofset by my time saved, not to mention less waste.

Finally, some of the new Mineral Oils that are designed for Diesel engines (Think CHevron Delo 15w-40), also called HDEO oils, can be pushed nearly as far a dyno oils at a much lower cost. If you live in a warm area, you could run the Delo 15w-40 for 6000+ miles easily.

Cary

 

[firetruck41]

[quote author=cary link=board=2;threadid=15882;start=msg152032#msg152032 date=1083883901]

Finally, some of the new Mineral Oils that are designed for Diesel engines (Think CHevron Delo 15w-40), also called HDEO oils, can be pushed nearly as far a dyno oils at a much lower cost.
Cary
[/quote]
I think Cary meant, "pushed nearly as far a synth oil" ???

 

[landtoy80]

What about "ditry oil".
I listen to way toooo much XM trucker channel. The Gulf Coast Filter say over and over that " the oil doesn't wear out, its just gets dirty".
With the dirty EGR in our motor, does the filter get plugged and no longer filter out the oil in 7500, 10,000, 18,000 mi?

Is it true that on new GM cars with oil change light that it can tell when the filter if full and sends a signal to the ECU that turns on the oil change light?

My Toyota Previa had a oil change light. It never turned on at the same milage.
My guess is that it keep track of hwy and city miles in some way to let you know you are overdue for and oil chane. When we went on a long trip the oil light went off at a higher amount of miles than it did with combo driving.

 

[cary]

Base oils do not break down, the additive package does. Oil filters help take out particulates, but do not replace the additive packages. I doubt the filter on most cars would expire before the additive package in the oil does. Oil life indicators are usually based on fuel consumed, cold starts or some combo of. And yes I did mean synth.


Cary

 

[landtoy80]

So a motor that uses oi if better than a motor that doesn't as you are always adding fresh oil inso that you are adding fresh additives tooooo

Anyone want to buy my motor? Its bette than a new one as it always has fresh oil and additives in it

 

[Cruiserdrew]

My name is Andrew and I'm an old school thick oil junky.....

Seriously, I run Mobil 1 15w-50 at 5000 mile intervals. I have also run Delvac 1 5w-40. Niether shows any significant consumption at 5000 miles. On Xw-30 I don't like the oil pressure reading at hot idle so the last 50k have been on the thick stuff. I am very curious about oil testing, but I can't see the economics of testing at 5000 mile intervals-It makes more sense just to change the oil.

On a slightly different topic-I had the oil pan off my FJ60 yesterday-the bottom end is very clean for 194k miles-it's run the last 20k on Chevron Delo diesel oil but it's SL rated too. The top end looks good as well-slight tan varnish only. I'm becoming a believer in the Heavy Duty oils especially since Delo is $35 for a case of 6 gallons at Costco. That's got to be optimizing the cost/benifit ratio, especially in an older cruiser.

 

[dnp]

It's interesting to hear most folks' experiences with the thinner oils. Though it wasn't in a Land Cruiser, the last time I tried running 5W-30 in one of my vehicles (with +/- 30,000 miles), it sounded like the rods knocked for the first few seconds after start up....... maybe the tolerances in the LC's are closer?

dnp

 

[sadflatlander]

Is nobody using Amsoil.....in any weight? I know M1 is easier to find, but...........................

 

[IdahoDoug]

Just a quick correction here. LandTank mentioned in #2 above that I was consuming oil before, which must be confusion with another member. Mine's never consumed oil, had Mobil 1 since new, factory filters, etc. Actual oil consumption would likely be around a quarter of a quart per 6200 mile oil change interval. Not enough data yet, but this looked literally like as close to zero consumption as I've ever seen. I'll report back after a few oil changeouts to confirm.

DougM

 

[landtank]

Sorry about that Doug. I re-read your original post and realised that you were rambling on about vehicles in general and not your truck specifically. I was probably thinking about Landtoy's truck at the time as you seemed to be talking about his consumption situation and found a solution to it.

 

[greglomax]

Where do you send oil tests off to, and generally how much does it cost? Do you simply ask the dealership to save you a sample of the oil so you can send it off for testing? How much do you need to send in as a sample?

I have not had my LC for very long. Actually only long enough to go through one oil change, but it has 80,000 miles on it. I asked the dealership about putting synthetic oil in it when the oil was changed, but they acted like this was something they never really did and they did not keep any synthetic oils in stock. They would need to order some or I guess I could buy it and bring it with me.

Any thoughts on that? I hear a lot of conversations on here about using synthetic oils. I am just wondering whether there is really any statistical relevance for using synthetics over the standard brand the dealership is using.

 

[cary]

[quote author=Cruiserdrew link=board=2;threadid=15882;start=msg152096#msg152096 date=1083890771]
My name is Andrew and I'm an old school thick oil junky.....

On a slightly different topic-I had the oil pan off my FJ60 yesterday-the bottom end is very clean for 194k miles-it's run the last 20k on Chevron Delo diesel oil but it's SL rated too. The top end looks good as well-slight tan varnish only. I'm becoming a believer in the Heavy Duty oils especially since Delo is $35 for a case of 6 gallons at Costco. That's got to be optimizing the cost/benifit ratio, especially in an older cruiser.
[/quote]

Chevron Delo from Costco (technically a fleet oil) is probably the best non-synthetic oil you can get. The few used oil analysis that I have seen of the oil have been topnotch, plus it tends to hold up better than most mineral oils.

Amsoil: Great oil, but doesn't seem much better than Mobil (guess who Amsoil buys their basestocks from). There is a comparison being done right now on bobistheoilguy.

So what are the advantages of Synthetic?

1) Allow use of one oil year around in all climates (i.e. 0w-40 vs. Mineral changing from 15w-40 to 5w-30).
2) More stable over oil change interval.
3) Longer oil change intervals.
4) Arguably better protection under extreme loads.
5) Less likely to coke up in a turbo application.

Realistically, Synthetic will not extend your engine life compared to using a good mineral oil of the proper weight. Redline oil has even gone so far as to state this fact in public. However, notice that more and more manufactures are specing Synth as required (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Saab, etc.) and the minimum specs for these oils can only be met by synthetics.

Cary

Many I need to write the faq on this.

 

[e9999]

yup, Cary, please do write up the FAQ!
I guess most people would indeed be interested very much in the issue of the comparison btwn dino and synth and respective advantages. I did find it comforting when you suggested in the past -I'm paraphrasing, correctly I hope- that dino oil was essentially just as good as synth for normal conditions as long as one changes it more often. But then that might actually be OK for folks who put on little mileage yearly on their rigs and run against the "once a year" limit...
thanks
Eric

 

[Pskhaat]

[quote author=greglomax link=board=2;threadid=15882;start=msg152357#msg152357 date=1083939031]
Do you simply ask the dealership to save you a sample of the oil so you can send it off for testing?...I asked the dealership about putting synthetic oil in it when the oil was changed, but they acted like this was something they never really did and they did not keep any synthetic oils in stock.
[/quote]

I know it's a pain in the neck to do it yourself (and I don't want to sound annoying at all :-X), but the benefits outweigh the downfalls. If you do have the dealership do it, ensure you get the right filter (or rather not the `bad' filter they put on by default) and just bring in your own synthetic and then ask for a credit on their oil

 

[Pitbull]

To learn everything you need to know about oil and UOA go to www.bobistheoilguy.com

 

[scottm]

My 40th dripped just a little from the rear of the engine when I first got it with 90k on it. I've used M1 and Amsoil 5W30 since then, and it's stopped dripping. Unfortunately it seems to have sprung a front seal leak last week

I get a good price on Amsoil, about the price for M1, but have to order it or stop at the warehouse in Chicago. And they don't have 0W40. What's the best price you guys have seen on M1 0W40?

 

[landtoy80]

I don't know how an oil or additive (autoRX) can stop an oil leak?
The leak that Scott (rear main retainer) and I (front pan) have would be a sealant leak.
When I have fixed sealant leaks, the seal is no longer sticking to the metal. How does oil fix this?

 

[IdahoDoug]

Kurt,

I've witnessed (on friend's cars I've helped with) an oil additive and a tranny fluid additive stop leaks once each. The name of the stuff may or may not come to me before I finish typing. The way it works, is it causes the rubbery seals to swell a bit - often just enough to stop the leak or slow it dramatically. I cannot speak for any side effects but perhaps Cary has some input on this.

Ah crap, can't think of the name but it was something like "BGK44" if I recall (clearly I do not...). Not commonly available or a major name brand. Try a Google search.

Greg - on the oil samples. A few of us have used Blackstone Laboratories (or something like that - heh) with good results. Costs $21.5 with postage. However, I would not entrust getting a sample to someone at the dealership who does oil changes. It is absolutely critical to get a proper sample and if they screw up in the slightest it will wildly skew the results.

DougM

 

[landtank]

I've heard of putting a teaspoon or so of brake flyuid in to swell the seals. But when I had my pan off the FIPG had separated from the block so oil was leaking through. I don't see a seal sweller helping that condition.