I would offer it is not the Orion, it may be the slip splines on your driveline, since its out, pull the slip yoke apart, grease/coat splines with old school drum brake wheel bearing grease, was/is your drive line in phase ? phase it correctly, reinstall & test, I bet noise/vib gone. The preload Mark refered to is set by the amount of shims under the rear output housing, if it is incorrect it will cause a too tight bearing burn up situation, if it is too loose it could cause the rattle you mention. Take the e-brake drum off and hope there is no movement possible of the output shaft ?
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@65swb45 I realized that question was a stupid question now that I look back. It was a stream of consciousness thought before I had time to revisit the procedure. I don't assemble these in quantity like you so the procedure isn't at the forefront of my mind.
Heck, I have a hard time remembering where I laid down the tool I just had in my hand. LOL
Heck, I have a hard time remembering where I laid down the tool I just had in my hand. LOL
No my input shaft was swapped from the original transfer case.
It's a new Tom Woods driveshaft and it has not been apart so it's not a phasing issue.
Well then you may have to check out the output preload. Mark asked about the output shaft, you stated the old one was used , did you mic the OD of shaft where the Hi-speed gear rides and mic the ID of the Hi-speed gear bushing ? If it isnt the drive shaft I would think Mark is on the right path. Last suggestion, my e-brake shoes were just a CH too tight and would drag/rattle when coming to a stop for a few seconds until stopped. Thought/sounded like all kinds of clutch issues or worse, found that a very minor adjustment cured what seemed like a major mech problem, worth a look.
I'm going to pull it apart and check tolerances since I'm this far. Too late on the e-brake adjustment since it's on the bench already, but that's good to know.
They like to wear in an hour glass pattern where the hi speed gear rides, check the OD of shaft & ID of bearings/bushings @ both ends and the middle , see if you have this condition. Check dog teeth on gears & collar, Georg posted pics for reference in this thread.
Yeah, it looks like we're on to something. While I don't have a micrometer, I can tell from the looks of the output shaft the high speed gear has "chattered" on the shaft. Measurements with a simple set of calipers also confirms the discrepancy. I can feel the gear wobble when moving it side-to-side by hand. Looks like I'll be ordering an output shaft for sure.
Now see if you can get new bushing/bearing for gear ? IIRC we achieved a very good tolerance, like .001 and mine still pops out of gear on decel. There is a combination of things that add up to success, possible use of step washer ( see thread ), shift fork issues ( some bent ), shift rail/detent upgrades, dog teeth condition on gears, collar & shaft, the hi-speed gear to output shaft clearance, proper spacers on input shaft, and preload of output shaft.
My high speed gear has less than 300 miles on it so I doubt it's the gear bushing. Mine never fully popped out of gear. With the wear pattern on the output shaft resembling a chattering issue, I'm betting that's largely my issue. I like to be able to find some evidence to support what was happening.
Other than the measurements across the bearing surface indicating more wear at the edges evidencing the oscilating/chatter I have found nothing, except it pops out which I could solve by going to fine spline shafts which get you the improved dog teeth, IMO.
Oh, and the wear on the shift fork from bungee, but it has been 20 years.
Oh, and the wear on the shift fork from bungee, but it has been 20 years.
^^
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After reading all 48 pages of this forum and studying, I believe I have an explanation for my noises from post #937. I originally had a few circumstances where it was decelerating and ended up in neutral. I didn't think much about it, but there was a reference to shift linking here in this thread. I adjusted my shift linkage to position the shifter lever up close to the bracket stop which on the stock levers keep you from going into 2WD Low. (I had first removed this stop because I wanted the use of Low range 2WD.). When it popped out of gear, I thought this might contribute to the issues and decided to weld the stop back in and adjust the lever to be close to the stop.
What was happening was the transfer was trying to pop out of gear on deceleration but because I had the linkage adjusted close to the lever stop, the lever prevented full movement into neutral. The HI/LO sleeve was just starting riding on the ends of the dog-tooth which created my gear noise. Bottom line, on deceleration I had the famous pop out of gear issue.
I've since replaced the output shaft with a new one and I also replaced the HI/LO clutch sleeve.
I have .010 clearance at the high speed gear and a tight .008 at the low speed gear with everything bolted together and properly torqued. I have 15lbs of bearing pre-load measured with a beam-type torque wrench on the output shaft nut at the speedo housing which tracks with the AA instructions of 10-20lbs.
Unless someone thinks I need to do something else, I think it's time for re-assembly and hoping I'm not one of those units that just pops out of gear.
I've also posted here what appears to be the lastest rendition of the AA shift fork. It now has wear artificial material to eliminate the old metal-to-metal surface rub. I'm not sure if that means it will wear better or just wear and not introduce metal into the oil. I have .025 + clearance with the HI/LO sleeve which I think it a bit much but I see no way to reduce this and these are all new parts.
What was happening was the transfer was trying to pop out of gear on deceleration but because I had the linkage adjusted close to the lever stop, the lever prevented full movement into neutral. The HI/LO sleeve was just starting riding on the ends of the dog-tooth which created my gear noise. Bottom line, on deceleration I had the famous pop out of gear issue.
I've since replaced the output shaft with a new one and I also replaced the HI/LO clutch sleeve.
I have .010 clearance at the high speed gear and a tight .008 at the low speed gear with everything bolted together and properly torqued. I have 15lbs of bearing pre-load measured with a beam-type torque wrench on the output shaft nut at the speedo housing which tracks with the AA instructions of 10-20lbs.
Unless someone thinks I need to do something else, I think it's time for re-assembly and hoping I'm not one of those units that just pops out of gear.
I've also posted here what appears to be the lastest rendition of the AA shift fork. It now has wear artificial material to eliminate the old metal-to-metal surface rub. I'm not sure if that means it will wear better or just wear and not introduce metal into the oil. I have .025 + clearance with the HI/LO sleeve which I think it a bit much but I see no way to reduce this and these are all new parts.
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spotcruiser
Geezer
That's what AA supplies now for the shift fork? Wow.
I assume you have a coarse spline on the 4wd engagement collar/front output ? If so the sure way to solve issue is to go to a fine spline output. That gets you the newer dog teeth style which has proven NOT to pop outa gear.
I have the later 40/45/55 shaft with fine spline for the front output. Cross my fingers.
AA doc says .008-012 so it's in spec.
I don't have a micrometer to get that measurement. I have a hard time believing a new outpost shaft and an AA gear with < 300 miles won't be close to in spec. It's been driven 99.9% of the time in 2WD so that means the high speed gear is turning with the output shaft and not subject to rotational wear. I also doubt there's significant wear induced by end play in the low miles driven. If that weren't true, we'd be replacing bushings with every oil change.
Does anyone smarter than me have an opinion on whether this is good or bad? Seems like an odd design change. Less metal/metal wear is good but how long do we expect plastic pads to last in this application? That’s not a rhetorical question - I’m legitimately curious whether this is an improvement or not. I know the prior versions had issues with warping and this will likely give a more consistent contact surface, but I’m curious how long plastic/metal wear will hold up. Has this been tried in other vehicles/applications?
