O R I O N (2 Viewers)

[peesalot]

I dont recall mentioning the billet cone ? I know that AA offered a HD version which had larger output flanges. I have cracked 1 ear on a stock cone other than that I have satisfied myself that the cone isnt necessarily a weak point.

 

[FF LC FREAK]

So, I'm having a problem with my Orion. As there are now 47 pages on the Orion sticky, please forgive me for asking a dumb question and not going through all those pages. I did go back a couple of pages and didn't see anything. My Orion is probably 4 years old now. I've had this problem since it was built (by me and a "buddy that knows these") of it popping out of gear on deceleration. At first it was only in low range on steep (and I mean STEEP) declines. I didn't think too much of it, as I don't drive it a ton. However, now, it does it in high range just decelerating. So, I want to get this figured out. I'm going to be pulling the t/c soon, hopefully tomorrow. What do I need to be looking for as a culprit? I have verified that the shift linkage is not the problem. I have disconnected it and shifted it, went for a drive with it disconnected, and it still popped out of gear. So, what else? When we built the Orion, I used all the new parts AA would sell me (i.e. hi/low clutch sleeve, new output shaft, etc). However, I do know that we did NOT measure the end play of the gears (.008-.012" is what it calls for) before reassembly. My bad. I'll own that one. That was going to be my first step once it is taken apart. Did I put something together wrong? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Kurt @cruiseroutfit or Georg @orangefj45, I know you guys have built a ton of these. Any suggestions?

And a pic of my rig with Kurt and his rig at Cruise Moab a few years ago just cuz...

Thanks again everyone!
Kyle

 

[65swb45]

Chances are the hi-lo fork and collar are both worn, prematurely. My symptoms were the same.

 

[archie73]

I had a similar problem and I mixed and matched the shift rail, spring, and ball bearing until I got a combination that would hold. I don’t remember which was Toyota and what was AA, it was more about playing with it to find the right combo. I used a digital torque wrench to measure the resistance in the selection. Since I did that, I have had zero issues with popping out of gear.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

So, I'm having a problem with my Orion. As there are now 47 pages on the Orion sticky, please forgive me for asking a dumb question and not going through all those pages. I did go back a couple of pages and didn't see anything. My Orion is probably 4 years old now. I've had this problem since it was built (by me and a "buddy that knows these") of it popping out of gear on deceleration. At first it was only in low range on steep (and I mean STEEP) declines. I didn't think too much of it, as I don't drive it a ton. However, now, it does it in high range just decelerating. So, I want to get this figured out. I'm going to be pulling the t/c soon, hopefully tomorrow. What do I need to be looking for as a culprit? I have verified that the shift linkage is not the problem. I have disconnected it and shifted it, went for a drive with it disconnected, and it still popped out of gear. So, what else? When we built the Orion, I used all the new parts AA would sell me (i.e. hi/low clutch sleeve, new output shaft, etc). However, I do know that we did NOT measure the end play of the gears (.008-.012" is what it calls for) before reassembly. My bad. I'll own that one. That was going to be my first step once it is taken apart. Did I put something together wrong? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Kurt @cruiseroutfit or Georg @orangefj45, I know you guys have built a ton of these. Any suggestions?

And a pic of my rig with Kurt and his rig at Cruise Moab a few years ago just cuz...

View attachment 3534929


Thanks again everyone!
Kyle

I'd be very curious to hear what your end play measurements are when you drop the Orion.



Great pic, that was a fun day!

 

[peesalot]

clearance between output shaft and bushing inside hi speed gear, I bet it is hour glass shaped, measure front, back & middle. Shift collar and dog teeth condition. Mine still pops out hi on decent/decel, I know the bungee is wrong, its been 20 years and the original shift fork is still going, my 40 doesnt get alot of miles. Keep flipping pages in the thread until you get to Georgs pics & desc of the diff splines on shift collar & shafts. Georg has these down.

 

[FF LC FREAK]

Chances are the hi-lo fork and collar are both worn, prematurely. My symptoms were the same.

The fork is worn a bit oddly. It seems it isn't making contact with the shift collar evenly front to back - tilted maybe a better word. The shift fork and collar were new from AA when I installed them. So what should I do here? Leave it alone? File down the fork to make it sit flush? Use the stock fork that has some wear? But read on for the other issues...

I had a similar problem and I mixed and matched the shift rail, spring, and ball bearing until I got a combination that would hold. I don’t remember which was Toyota and what was AA, it was more about playing with it to find the right combo. I used a digital torque wrench to measure the resistance in the selection. Since I did that, I have had zero issues with popping out of gear.

I looked at this a little bit before I dug deeper. I could definitely add more preload on that spring with the stock Toyota screw instead of the AA bolt. I might play with this when I put it back together. Luckily I still have all the old parts from when I built this 4 years ago.

I'd be very curious to hear what your end play measurements are when you drop the Orion.



Great pic, that was a fun day!

Turns out the end play was .006. AA recommends .008 - .012. The FSM says .006 - .015 works. So I'm going to call it good. I'd rather have it a little tight than a little loose.

clearance between output shaft and bushing inside hi speed gear, I bet it is hour glass shaped, measure front, back & middle. Shift collar and dog teeth condition. Mine still pops out hi on decent/decel, I know the bungee is wrong, its been 20 years and the original shift fork is still going, my 40 doesnt get alot of miles. Keep flipping pages in the thread until you get to Georgs pics & desc of the diff splines on shift collar & shafts. Georg has these down.

Winner Winner! High speed gear bushing is augered out. Anyone know the part number for the bushing? AA says it is a Toyota part, but they don't stock it. I ordered another high speed gear with the bushing already installed for the interim. I'll get a bushing at some point and keep this gear as a spare in case I need to do this again. In the pics below, the bushing looks burned. I'm guessing this is my fault due to a flat tow I did without removing the driveshaft early after building the Orion. I won't be doing that again. And yes, the gear clearly wobbles on the shaft. Low speed gear bushing is fine.

Thanks for the help everyone. It is much appreciated!

 

[65swb45]

While one would like to think that, like the old adage, a 10 cent fuse will blow before a $300 TV, those of us who live in Murphy’s world know that is not the case. What it means here is that while a bronze bushing should deterio before a hardened steel output shaft, unless you are really, really sure about your output shaft, I would replace it as well.
As for the fork, put it in the collar and use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between the fork and the slot in the collar. There’s a spec for that too.

 

[FF LC FREAK]

While one would like to think that, like the old adage, a 10 cent fuse will blow before a $300 TV, those of us who live in Murphy’s world know that is not the case. What it means here is that while a bronze bushing should deterio before a hardened steel output shaft, unless you are really, really sure about your output shaft, I would replace it as well.
As for the fork, put it in the collar and use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between the fork and the slot in the collar. There’s a spec for that too.

Mark/Mr Murphy, I don't like what you are implying. And I don't like that I just went out with my caliper and measured my output shaft. And I really don't like that I just ordered a new output shaft since mine is most definitely worn. D'oh! But THANK YOU for posting that up. You definitely saved me some time and heartache. And thanks for the tip on the shift fork. I'll do that shortly.

 

[peesalot]

The AA forks have been proven to be twisted out of the box. When checking the output to bushing measure at both ends and in the middle, see what you get, curious what the gap/difference was ? That bushing is for some reason hard to find if at all.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Isn‘t that bushing just the 75-80 era? Or did AA use the earlier variant? I’ll have to measure an Orion tomorrow. We have OEM and aftermarket of the 75-80 in stock @ Cruiser Outfitters

 

[65swb45]

Mark/Mr Murphy, I don't like what you are implying. And I don't like that I just went out with my caliper and measured my output shaft. And I really don't like that I just ordered a new output shaft since mine is most definitely worn. D'oh! But THANK YOU for posting that up. You definitely saved me some time and heartache. And thanks for the tip on the shift fork. I'll do that shortly.

FWIW, I stock and sell the output shaft, and wouldn't have minded if you'd at least feigned an interest in purchasing one from me. One of the reasons I don't spend much time in tech anymore.