No Start Help 1982 FJ45

[bdsmitty88]

Hey, Everyone. I'm looking for advice on where to look next, troubleshooting my FJ45 no start problem. The truck is a 1982 and has its original 2F engine.
For background...
- Ever since I acquired the truck, I have had to pump the gas pedal a few times to get it started...even with the choke out. It usually fired up within a few starter cranks, cold engine, with a few gas pedal pumps.
- The truck always started up quicker on cold start versus warm/hot start. I found this odd. When warm/hot, it started much worse with the choke out (I guess this makes sense?).
- The engine has always felt fine, pulled strong and never stalled once started. I had owned the truck for 7 months before it died. I was driving the truck home from an event on a 55mpg road with a few stoplights when it started to sputter and almost stall when moving from a stop (clutch feels fine). I got the truck home and the next day was able to get it started but it sputtered out pretty quick, with and without gas. Currently, the truck will not start. The starter cranks fine, but the engine never fires.

Troubleshooting (a few months later)...
-The truck still will not start. The starter cranks fine, but the engine doesn't ignite. I removed the air intake and noticed that the choke valve was stuck. I sprayed it with carb cleaner and freed it up. Still no start - no change with choke in versus out. I removed all 6 spark plugs. 5 seemed to spark fine, but one did not. I cleaned it with a wire brush, lessened the gap and it sparked (the spark seemed super faint, but I'm not too familiar with spark plug troubleshooting). The truck still won't start. I swapped the reworked plug to a different cylinder, just to see if order has any effect and got the same result.
- I cleaned out what I could of the carb with carb cleaner (still bolted on). Still no start. I tried starter fluid with the same result, having my buddy keep the throttle open while starting and then trying it closed - same result.
- I examined the fuel level in the bowl and it's pretty hard to tell what it's at. The glass seems pretty discolored, but after shaking the truck, I was certain it was on the lower end of the markings.
- When actuating the throttle, it does seem that fuel is getting to the carb.

What should I check next? I have new plugs and a fuel filter coming in the mail and will install those, but I'm unsure where to look next.

Also, I noticed this thing smoking a bit when trying to start (I assume its an ignition capacitor as it runs to the distributor). I had noticed this thing was super hot before, but I was thinking it wasn't a big deal because I assumed the top part was a heat sink. It isn't super dirty or anything, so I am uncertain what would be smoking or burning off.

TIA!

 

[whitey45]

Have you checked for spark? That is a ballast resistor to control voltage to the coil, it should never smoke!! Sounds like your coil is weak and or shot!

 

[bdsmitty88]

Have you checked for spark? That is a ballast resistor to control voltage to the coil, it should never smoke!! Sounds like your coil is weak and or shot!

Good to know. I was planning to replace anyway since I saw it smoking. Is it possible that this thing is causing too little voltage to get to the plugs and that is my issue? I am struggling to think this would cause it not to start.

See above on spark. I've never done spark plug troubleshooting before, so I don't know what good spark looks like, but they all spark.

 

[whitey45]

Compression, fuel, and spark are all required for an engine to run!. How are you checking spark? It should be a nice bright blue and you should hear it!

 

[bdsmitty88]

Compression, fuel, and spark are all required for an engine to run!. How are you checking spark? It should be a nice bright blue and you should hear it!

I checked the plugs one at a time - plug out, connected to the distributor, with the plug grounded to the vehicle. All sparked, blue, but it looked faint to me and I certainly didn't hear a pop (like I expected) over the sound of the starter cranking.

 

[jembourbe]

... Is it possible that this thing is causing too little voltage to get to the plugs and that is my issue? I am struggling to think this would cause it not to start.

Yes, that is very possible. Plus your starter draws even more current when cranking, weaking ignition spark even further

 

[greenbeasty]

Yep' once the smoke escapes, it's done for. You should have it back in service soon.

 

[Steamer]

Can’t tell for sure in your video, but it doesn’t appear to have a resistor bypass wire connected. If that’s the case, I’d have a look at the starter to see if it has the secondary contact terminal for it.

If you did have an operational bypass, the vehicle would fire when cranking but then die after cranking because of the bad resistor. Without the bypass and a bad resistor, you’d get no fire when cranking or in run.

Not a big deal to run without a resistor bypass but if your starter isn’t equipped for it and you’re thinking of replacing the coil, I would just get the coil that runs without the resistor and don’t bother replacing the resistor. The coil that runs without the resistor is often called an internally resisted coil but it’s just a coil with more primary windings and designed to run on full vehicle voltage.

 

[bdsmitty88]

Can’t tell for sure in your video, but it doesn’t appear to have a resistor bypass wire connected. If that’s the case, I’d have a look at the starter to see if it has the secondary contact terminal for it.

If you did have an operational bypass, the vehicle would fire when cranking but then die after cranking because of the bad resistor. Without the bypass and a bad resistor, you’d get no fire when cranking or in run.

Not a big deal to run without a resistor bypass but if your starter isn’t equipped for it and you’re thinking of replacing the coil, I would just get the coil that runs without the resistor and don’t bother replacing the resistor. The coil that runs without the resistor is often called an internally resisted coil but it’s just a coil with more primary windings and designed to run on full vehicle voltage.

That's good info. Do you have a picture, by chance, of the bypass? There is another wire coming off the wire bundle leading to the negative terminal of the resistor. Some of the accessory wiring on this truck was a bit sketch when I got it (mostly with grounding). I re-did a bunch of the wiring and don't remember if this was just a leftover ground wire that I re-routed or maybe it's for the bypass. Regardless, I ordered a new coil with the internalized resistor to replace this one.

 

[Steamer]

Do you have a picture, by chance, of the bypass?

Sorry, I don't have a bypass anymore.

There is another wire coming off the wire bundle leading to the negative terminal of the resistor.

Could you post a pic of that showing the other end of the coil and it's terminals?

The wire for a bypass would go from the starter to the + side of the coil. If your starter is equipped for a bypass, there would be two small terminals on it besides the big one that goes directly to the battery. One small terminal is fed from the ignition switch for starting/cranking. The other small terminal would be for the bypass. Could you post a pic of the starter terminals as well?

 

[jembourbe]

Sorry, I don't have a bypass anymore.


Could you post a pic of that showing the other end of the coil and it's terminals?

The wire for a bypass would go from the starter to the + side of the coil. If your starter is equipped for a bypass, there would be two small terminals on it besides the big one that goes directly to the battery. One small terminal is fed from the ignition switch for starting/cranking. The other small terminal would be for the bypass. Could you post a pic of the starter terminals as well?

Exactly. For instance, if he has a gear reduction starter (which doesn't supply voltage to bypass the resistor), then he's not bypassing his fried resistor while cranking (or while it's running, if he could get to that point).

Same scenario if the wire coming from an old-style starter isn't wired correctly to bypass resistance while cranking.

 

[peesalot]

Just put a new coil on and be done.

 

[jembourbe]

This is the old-style starter. There is a big cable that comes from battery (+) and two smaller wires. One of the smaller wires comes from the ignition switch (key), and the other (probably the black with white stripe) delivers voltage to the coil area to bypass the resistor when cranking.

This is the gear reduction starter. It does not have a wire that delivers voltage to bypass the resistor during cranking. You can make your own using a relay, but that's been hammered out in other threads

 

[bdsmitty88]

Little update...

I received the new coil (internal resistor) and plug wires. I swapped those out, removing the old resistor as well. Problem...now I have no accessory or ignition power. Battery is charged. I get proper voltage to the coil (QUESTION: does the coil always have a voltage reading, grounded to the battery, when the key is out?).

I checked the inline fuses to the wiring harness. They are good. All fuses in the fuse box are good, but no voltage to the fuse box. Anyone have ideas where else I should be looking? I'm perplexed.

To be clear...now power to anything: lights, ignition, radio, horn, etc. thx

 

[bdsmitty88]

This is the old-style starter. There is a big cable that comes from battery (+) and two smaller wires. One of the smaller wires comes from the ignition switch (key), and the other (probably the black with white stripe) delivers voltage to the coil area to bypass the resistor when cranking.

This is the gear reduction starter. It does not have a wire that delivers voltage to bypass the resistor during cranking. You can make your own using a relay, but that's been hammered out in other threads

Ok...I did some more digging. My starter is the gear reduction type. It looks identical to the second you pictured and only has the positive connection to the battery and the ground plug for the ignition circuit.

I swapped out the old coil/external resistor for a new coil with the internal resistor. The coil has one connection to the positive side from the ignition, then one to the negative side (I can't really follow where this one goes but I assume it is to the distributor). I have no idea why my old coil was overheating bad enough to burn the oil off. Is it because it was improperly paired with the more current style starter? My truck is a 1982 and, from what I can tell, it should have had the internalized resistor coil all along. But, you never know with a south american truck.

I also replaced the plugs, plug wires and cleaned off the distributor cap connections. The connection on the cap from the coil had a ton of oxidization on it. Unfortunately, I still have the same problem...no start, just continuous cranking to no avail.

I do, now, have this strange issue. When I first installed the new coil and reconnected the battery, I turned the key and had no accessory power (no power to fuse box) whatsoever. No fuses, anywhere, were blown. I swapped in the old coil / resistor and reconnected the battery, now with the new plugs / cables. Still cranks but no start. I then swapped the new coil back in (of course without the external resistor). I had accessory power this time, but still cranks with no start. So, no change versus the old coil. However, seemingly randomly, at times when I turn the key to ignition I get a loud click from the starter then nothing....all accessory power is lost again.

If I perform some sequence of detaching the battery cables, detaching the coil cables, reattaching coil cables, then reattaching battery cables, I usually get accessory power back. However, sometimes it shorts again when I turn the key to ignition. This all comes along with what seems like strange behavior from the battery terminals. If I disconnect the coil, having accessory power, I can disconnect and reconnect the battery cables with no noticeable arc. However, if the coil is connected, I get quite a big arc and some smoke from both the + and - terminals. In some cases with the coil connected, I lose accessory power, disconnect and reconnect everything but still don't have accessory power. If I loosen the terminal clamps and wiggle them into just the perfect position, I regain accessory power.

I'm at a bit of a loss to this behavior. I scrubbed the battery terminals with a heavy wire brush. They are by no means new and shiny, but they aren't covered in oxidization. Can the coil short the truck's electrical circuit? How do you explain the excessive arc with the coil connected? Why would this loss of accessory power be so finicky and sometimes return with disconnecting the coil, reconnecting the coil and battery terminals and then fiddling with the terminals until it comes back. I've owned the truck for 1 year with no electrical issues since I fixed a few shoddy wiring jobs in the first week of owning the truck.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

i am going to take a leap and say your INTERNALS of your electrical KEY ROTORY switch are all sloppy and making contact with each other


the check balls and springs have had there better days ...


if you have a spare try it now and see ?

i have seen this scenario involving a bad key switch before

not the smoking coil , but almost all of your symptoms

OEM Toyota GENUINE PARTS Ignition Switch Fits 1973 - 1984 FJ40 , FJ55 FJ45 84450-60070 Direct Interchangeable # 84450-36011 , 84450-60050 - VintageTEqParts.com

- OEM Toyota Genuine Ignition Switch - Fits 1973 - 1984 FJ40 , FJ55 - part # 84450-60070 - Direct Interchangeable...

vintageteqparts.com

 

[bdsmitty88]

i am going to take a leap and say your INTERNALS of your electrical KEY ROTORY switch are all sloppy and making contact with each other


the check balls and springs have had there better days ...


if you have a spare try it now and see ?

i have seen this scenario involving a bad key switch before

not the smoking coil , but almost all of your symptoms

OEM Toyota GENUINE PARTS Ignition Switch Fits 1973 - 1984 FJ40 , FJ55 FJ45 84450-60070 Direct Interchangeable # 84450-36011 , 84450-60050 - VintageTEqParts.com

- OEM Toyota Genuine Ignition Switch - Fits 1973 - 1984 FJ40 , FJ55 - part # 84450-60070 - Direct Interchangeable...

vintageteqparts.com

View attachment 3249610

I don't have a spare to try but I will take a look at this switch tomorrow. I assume this just runs along the steering column.

If it were this part, how do you explain accessory power returning by disconnecting, readjusting, etc., connections in the engine bay.

Also, this couldn't have anything to do with my no start problem, right? The starter still cranks. The engine just doesn't fire. I know fuel injected cars have relays that take over once the engine ignites, but I didn't think these trucks had anything that would work like that.

THX

 

[ToyotaMatt]

could all of the above , yes


say the black wire / w white stripe is getting B= to the starter solenoid , yet NO B+ to the black wire w/ yellow tracer stripe ........

Check your MAIN set of CYCLOPS HYBRID connectors that are inside the cab ,. under the glove box , they transition the cowl harness to the engine bay harness on a late model 40 anything series

they are famous for arcing and melting down , these were the last of the SH#T that YAZAKI put out before SUMITOMO was put at the lead position on all Land Cruiser harness's

they can be BLUE in color or cream natural

UNPLUG them inspect carefully , and lather up with di-electric grease well if there OK


- next , take cable off battery , then unbolt your glass tube fuse box , then flip it around , look hard for heat stress melting of the wires feeding it , especially the large 10ga primary ones

you have a RIVITETED style , they are known to act up after 40-50 years

look at the front side for melted black plastic too

take photos of both locations and post here and report back


have you simply CHANGED ALL your glass tube fuses all at one time by chance , no matter how they look or test with a meter or light ?

if NOT , swap all of them at one time , buy marine grade ones at west marine , there stainless and tough as nails

 

[bdsmitty88]

could all of the above , yes


say the black wire / w white stripe is getting B= to the starter solenoid , yet NO B+ to the black wire w/ yellow tracer stripe ........

Check your MAIN set of CYCLOPS HYBRID connectors that are inside the cab ,. under the glove box , they transition the cowl harness to the engine bay harness on a late model 40 anything series

they are famous for arcing and melting down , these were the last of the SH#T that YAZAKI put out before SUMITOMO was put at the lead position on all Land Cruiser harness's

they can be BLUE in color or cream natural

UNPLUG them inspect carefully , and lather up with di-electric grease well if there OK


- next , take cable off battery , then unbolt your glass tube fuse box , then flip it around , look hard for heat stress melting of the wires feeding it , especially the large 10ga primary ones

you have a RIVITETED style , they are known to act up after 40-50 years

look at the front side for melted black plastic too

take photos of both locations and post here and report back


have you simply CHANGED ALL your glass tube fuses all at one time by chance , no matter how they look or test with a meter or light ?

if NOT , swap all of them at one time , buy marine grade ones at west marine , there stainless and tough as nails

I will try to inspect what you mentioned. I'll check the harness going from the key ignition down the column, first.

I will take a look at the fuse panel but I am confident that it is not my issue. I've inspected it thoroughly when I got the truck, as I had to fix some wiring from the previous owner. I also connected a few wires to it for my stereo install, so I am confident it is fine. When I do have accessory power, everything that runs through the fuse panel works fine. Regardless, I ordered some marine grade fuses and will swap them out.

If, say, there is something wrong with the ignition switch circuit, there has to be something else going wrong...unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying. My problems first arose as a sluggish engine, near stall during one of my drives when starting from a stop at lights. I got home and parked the truck. I tried to take it out a few days later and it was slow to start and kept stalling before I could get out of my driveway. After a few more days of attempting to get it out of the driveway, it finally just wouldn't start at all. I struggle to see how an electrical short would have caused these symptoms. I never lost electrical power until I swapped out the ignition coil.

Thanks for the help! It's killing me not having this thing on the road. She's too pretty for the driveway.

 

[brooklyn]

I would suggest you get a remote start switch from harbor freight and connect to coil (make sure truck is in not in gear) and try and start. Keep focused on troubleshooting from here — currently you are have too many options on the table

Once you get truck started— you can begin verifying the rest. Keep it simple!