I'm guessing Joe meant to say, connect the start switch to the starter, and then a hot wire from battery + to the coil +.
Exactly. Doing this takes the ignition switch, fuse panel, wiring harness and more out of the picture temporarily for testing.
No Start Help 1982 FJ45
- Thread starter bdsmitty88
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- #22
Didn't know these remote switches were even a thing. That's good to know. To clarify the wiring, do you wire this switch in series from starter to battery or do you ground it?
- Thread starter
- #24
Ok cool...then connect a hot wire direct from battery + to coil +, bypassing the ignition hot wire?
I hope the remote start process gives you some good data points.
I had similar ghost-in-the-machine issues with my starter and accessories. It turned out the bolt on the cylinder head that connects the main ground cable -- that comes from the battery (-) terminal -- was not allowing for good electrical contact.
- Thread starter
- #26
Ok...little update. I hooked back up the new coil. Coil is getting voltage. All accessory power is working. Still not sure what was causing that issue. It's possible that the key switch is on it's way out and it was just a fluke of timing. I disassembled the thing. The contacts on the plate had a lot of wear, but the springs, balls, etc.. were all good. So, for the moment, it is best to ignore that issue and figure out why the engine isn't firing which is the issue that started this whole endeavor.
CURRENT STATE - the starter cranks but the engine just doesn't fire. All plugs are sparking, distributor cap looks healthy as far as I can tell and the distributor rotor doesn't look gummed, corroded or anything. I am getting fuel into the carburetor. There does not appear to be any issue getting fuel to the carb. What are the odds that all the plugs spark, but not enough to at least get the engine going a bit...even with a lot of starting fluid?
Butterfly valves are moving freely. Is it possible for the engine cylinders to be so flooded with gas that it just won't ever start? The very first thing I did when troubleshooting this no-start, was to spray carb cleaner on the choke valve. I noticed that it was completely stuck closed. So, the whole time I have owned the truck, the choke valve was in the closed position. Could this have dumped too much fuel into the cylinders and caused the truck not to run? You can check the first post for my history of the truck and how it has run. TL;DR it ran fine for 6-8 months and then started being sluggish on a 55mph road drive with several stoplights. I got it home. It started and died a few times and then has sat for about 2-3 months without running. Is it possible that fuel could sit in the cylinders that long without evaporating and cause the engine not to ignite?
WHAT I"VE REPLACED SO FAR - new plug wires, NGK spark plugs, cleaned the distributor cap contact points, replaced the external resistor coil with a new internal resistor coil. My truck shouldn't have had the external resistor coil in the first place because it is a 1982 and has the newer starter without the need for a separate, direct wired bypass.
Any thoughts on where to head next? Thanks!
CURRENT STATE - the starter cranks but the engine just doesn't fire. All plugs are sparking, distributor cap looks healthy as far as I can tell and the distributor rotor doesn't look gummed, corroded or anything. I am getting fuel into the carburetor. There does not appear to be any issue getting fuel to the carb. What are the odds that all the plugs spark, but not enough to at least get the engine going a bit...even with a lot of starting fluid?
Butterfly valves are moving freely. Is it possible for the engine cylinders to be so flooded with gas that it just won't ever start? The very first thing I did when troubleshooting this no-start, was to spray carb cleaner on the choke valve. I noticed that it was completely stuck closed. So, the whole time I have owned the truck, the choke valve was in the closed position. Could this have dumped too much fuel into the cylinders and caused the truck not to run? You can check the first post for my history of the truck and how it has run. TL;DR it ran fine for 6-8 months and then started being sluggish on a 55mph road drive with several stoplights. I got it home. It started and died a few times and then has sat for about 2-3 months without running. Is it possible that fuel could sit in the cylinders that long without evaporating and cause the engine not to ignite?
WHAT I"VE REPLACED SO FAR - new plug wires, NGK spark plugs, cleaned the distributor cap contact points, replaced the external resistor coil with a new internal resistor coil. My truck shouldn't have had the external resistor coil in the first place because it is a 1982 and has the newer starter without the need for a separate, direct wired bypass.
Any thoughts on where to head next? Thanks!
- Thread starter
- #27
...adding 1 more curiosity here. I assumed the old coil on my truck was the version that required the external resistor. However, I was finally able to make out the part number on it and it seems like it might be a newer version.
Can someone confirm whether this coil has an internalized resistor?
Ignition Coil
If so, why would someone have previously added in the ballast resistor as well? The answer very well could be stupidity, given that I found a hot wired into a ground upon first receiving the truck.
Can someone confirm whether this coil has an internalized resistor?
Ignition Coil
If so, why would someone have previously added in the ballast resistor as well? The answer very well could be stupidity, given that I found a hot wired into a ground upon first receiving the truck.
- Thread starter
- #29
TBH, I'm not sure what would visibly constitute a "strong" spark. I notice a visible, blue spark from each of the plugs when cranking.
I tried starting it again today by just letting the starter crank forever, pumping the gas pedal a few times then holding it to the floor. Most of the time it was a dud, but a few times the engine started to ignite, but it just wouldn't stay. The second I left off the starter, it died. From everything I can tell, proper fuel is getting to the carb bowl and into the carb body, itself.
Pour a tablespoon or two of gas straight down the carb into the intake. Give it a crank (no gas pedal). If it kicks and starts for a few seconds, you know you're not getting fuel.
fyton2v
SILVER Star
This may have been mentioned, but are you certain you didn’t change your ignition timing (significantly) when you were working on and around the distributor? If you know you’re getting fuel into the carb’s barrel, and you know you’re getting spark… then timing, I guess.
In your original post you mentioned hard starting when warm and stalling at lights… that seems to be all about fuel delivery and/or vapor lock. Replacing the fuel filter, rebuilding the carburetor, and I assume you don’t have a carb cooling fan installed, all could be necessary. Those help a lot. Perhaps the fuel pump needs a rebuild too. I went through something similar and just replaced or rebuilt all those 50 year old parts. She ran a lot better afterwards and I worry less about breaking down.
In your original post you mentioned hard starting when warm and stalling at lights… that seems to be all about fuel delivery and/or vapor lock. Replacing the fuel filter, rebuilding the carburetor, and I assume you don’t have a carb cooling fan installed, all could be necessary. Those help a lot. Perhaps the fuel pump needs a rebuild too. I went through something similar and just replaced or rebuilt all those 50 year old parts. She ran a lot better afterwards and I worry less about breaking down.
- Thread starter
- #32
This is my first carbureted vehicle, but I assume the only way to alter the ignition timing around the top of the distributor is to mix up the wires. If so, yes I'm certain they are in the correct order (assuming cylinder 1 is most forward and 6 is most rear). Other than replacing the plug wires, all I messed with on the distributor was removing the cap, checking the contacts and cleaning the plug wire contacts on the top.
As for the hard starting when warm...it could be other things, but I'm guessing this behavior was related to the choke being stuck closed. The choke valve works fine now, but I'll have to wait and see how that affects cold/warm start.
I replaced the fuel filter and gave the carb a good spray down with carb cleaner. As far as I can tell, all of the valves are moving freely and correctly. The only other problem could be the jets. When I actuate the gas pedal, there is an even and consistent spray of fuel into the carb. The bowl also fills with fuel as expected when cranking the engine and while the engine is running it stays around the 1/2 to 3/4 line. So, that would lead me to believe the fuel pump is working as it should.
How was rebuilding the carb on this vehicle? I've only rebuild 1 carb in my life and it was a simple, tiny carb from a 1980s honda scooter. I'm hoping to check off everything I possibly can before tackling the carb.
Posting a follow up of my progress today after replying to your post...
middlecalf
SILVER Star
So what’s your firing order? And where is the distributor pointing when cylinder #1 is at TDC on its compression stroke?
- Thread starter
- #34
Made a little progress today, but there is still something quite wrong. Yesterday I got the engine to turn over a few times when cranking before the battery died. I charged it over night and went back at it today. The only thing I tackled this morning was replacing the connector on the (-) wire heading to the coil (-) terminal. It wasn't looking the best, so I figured I would do it just in case that was an issue.
What exactly do you mean, what's my firing order? In reference to what (visually or mechanically speaking)? When you say "the distributor pointing" do you mean the direction the rotor is pointing?
As for the distributor, all I know is that the plug wires are correct and the cap is on correct. I didn't touch the rotor. Is it possible that something, with regards to the distributor firing sequence, got out of "order"?
When I acquired the truck a year ago, it ran fine. Now it doesn't with, presumably, nothing disrupted physically on the distributor. I'm posting a follow up with a more detailed pattern of behavior, to give a good summary of where the truck stands now. THX!
What exactly do you mean, what's my firing order? In reference to what (visually or mechanically speaking)? When you say "the distributor pointing" do you mean the direction the rotor is pointing?
As for the distributor, all I know is that the plug wires are correct and the cap is on correct. I didn't touch the rotor. Is it possible that something, with regards to the distributor firing sequence, got out of "order"?
When I acquired the truck a year ago, it ran fine. Now it doesn't with, presumably, nothing disrupted physically on the distributor. I'm posting a follow up with a more detailed pattern of behavior, to give a good summary of where the truck stands now. THX!
middlecalf
SILVER Star
Yeah, meant to say distributor rotor, sorry about that. And I was thinking you pulled and replaced the plug wires so was guessing that maybe they by chance got put on wrong. Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4 (or a way to remember is “too young, too old, just right”
). Keep at it, you’ll get there.
- Thread starter
- #36
A little behavioral update...
Can bad gas or 10% ethanol gas that has been sitting for some time cause severe problems for these vehicles. I've never had issues with FI vehicles, but this is my first old, carb motor. I started to think more and more about the how long the truck sat idle.
BEFORE ANY ISSUES: (aside from the truck taking longer to start when warm. at this point I am assuming that was the stuck choke)
I purchased the truck in February of last year. I never had any real problems with the engine. It took 2-3 pumps of the gas pedal and a few cranks to get going cold, but otherwise it ran great. I drove the truck 3-4 times a week until July. I was on travel most of the summer. The truck sat idle for most of July and most of August (I think I drove it once each month in between trips). It sat all of September until I returned from travel toward the end of the month. I drove it once around town when I got home. Then, I drove it about 50 miles 1 day. On my return trip home that evening, on a 55mph road, I noticed the truck was nearly stalling when starting from a light. I got home and it sat for 2 days before I tried to start it and that's when it stalled twice in the driveway and wouldn't start again until today. So, aside from the occasional attempt at starting, the truck has sat idle since the end of September.
WHERE I'M AT TODAY:
I've replaced the ignition coil, fuel filter, spark plugs, plug wires, cleaned the distributor cap, freed the choke valve and gave the carb a solid spray down with carb cleaner. The carb bowl gets fuel, between 1/2 and full level, when cranking and when idling from the pump. The carb gets a nice even spray of fuel when actuating the gas pedal and the primary butterfly valve actuates, accordingly. After reading a ton of threads of similar problems, I decided to just brute force crank the thing as I started to think more and more about the gas / sitting idle situation. Yesterday I got the truck to turn over a few times but no true ignition.
Today I checked the bowl and made sure it was at 1/2. With a fully charged battery, I pumped the gas pedal about 10 times and then held it all the way down while cranking for at least 20 seconds. I pulled the choke to half and it started to want to ignite. Eventually, the truck did start, but it sounded really rough doing it. I noticed that it wanted to stall with the choke all in or all out, so I left it halfway. When I first started it, there was a good amount of burning fuel smell/smoke (not oil) from the tailpipe. It eventually cleared up. The truck idled for about 5 minutes. It eventually stalled. I got it started about 5 more times, with a similar procedure, but each time the engine seemed to struggle (loudly) more and more each time. Each time I got it started, thereafter, it seemed to struggle more and more to stay on. The last few times, I tried keeping the gas pedal down about half way, choke either half way or totally open, but it would eventually start to sputter, get louder and then stall. It did seem to take slightly less cranking / pedal pumping each subsequent time to get it started, however.
I can't quite wrap my head around it starting and idling / running but, with no change in inputs applied to the engine, it starting to spudder and die. When it did die it was fairly loud and would hold on for like 5-10 seconds before it finally stopped. Like, it sounded like it was just sporadically firing, holding on for dear life. This all got me really thinking about the time it has sat idle and the ethanol fuel being in there. It may also be worth noting that I live in Charleston, SC and some folks are adamant about never fueling up downtown because they say salt water can seep into the station tanks. I have no idea if this is true or not. Regardless, the next thing I am going to try is pumping the gas out of the tank and replacing it with some no ethanol rec fuel.
What do you think? Could it be the gas? Do we think it is most likely the distributor? The Carb? If we think it is the carb, how do we explain the engine starting and running then all of a sudden stalling out after a few minutes with no change in inputs (gas pedal position, choke position, etc). I'll not, again, that after it stalls the carb bowl is at 1/2 - 3/4, so I don't suspect the pump is the problem.
Thanks all. I'm hella perplexed on this one.
Can bad gas or 10% ethanol gas that has been sitting for some time cause severe problems for these vehicles. I've never had issues with FI vehicles, but this is my first old, carb motor. I started to think more and more about the how long the truck sat idle.
BEFORE ANY ISSUES: (aside from the truck taking longer to start when warm. at this point I am assuming that was the stuck choke)
I purchased the truck in February of last year. I never had any real problems with the engine. It took 2-3 pumps of the gas pedal and a few cranks to get going cold, but otherwise it ran great. I drove the truck 3-4 times a week until July. I was on travel most of the summer. The truck sat idle for most of July and most of August (I think I drove it once each month in between trips). It sat all of September until I returned from travel toward the end of the month. I drove it once around town when I got home. Then, I drove it about 50 miles 1 day. On my return trip home that evening, on a 55mph road, I noticed the truck was nearly stalling when starting from a light. I got home and it sat for 2 days before I tried to start it and that's when it stalled twice in the driveway and wouldn't start again until today. So, aside from the occasional attempt at starting, the truck has sat idle since the end of September.
WHERE I'M AT TODAY:
I've replaced the ignition coil, fuel filter, spark plugs, plug wires, cleaned the distributor cap, freed the choke valve and gave the carb a solid spray down with carb cleaner. The carb bowl gets fuel, between 1/2 and full level, when cranking and when idling from the pump. The carb gets a nice even spray of fuel when actuating the gas pedal and the primary butterfly valve actuates, accordingly. After reading a ton of threads of similar problems, I decided to just brute force crank the thing as I started to think more and more about the gas / sitting idle situation. Yesterday I got the truck to turn over a few times but no true ignition.
Today I checked the bowl and made sure it was at 1/2. With a fully charged battery, I pumped the gas pedal about 10 times and then held it all the way down while cranking for at least 20 seconds. I pulled the choke to half and it started to want to ignite. Eventually, the truck did start, but it sounded really rough doing it. I noticed that it wanted to stall with the choke all in or all out, so I left it halfway. When I first started it, there was a good amount of burning fuel smell/smoke (not oil) from the tailpipe. It eventually cleared up. The truck idled for about 5 minutes. It eventually stalled. I got it started about 5 more times, with a similar procedure, but each time the engine seemed to struggle (loudly) more and more each time. Each time I got it started, thereafter, it seemed to struggle more and more to stay on. The last few times, I tried keeping the gas pedal down about half way, choke either half way or totally open, but it would eventually start to sputter, get louder and then stall. It did seem to take slightly less cranking / pedal pumping each subsequent time to get it started, however.
I can't quite wrap my head around it starting and idling / running but, with no change in inputs applied to the engine, it starting to spudder and die. When it did die it was fairly loud and would hold on for like 5-10 seconds before it finally stopped. Like, it sounded like it was just sporadically firing, holding on for dear life. This all got me really thinking about the time it has sat idle and the ethanol fuel being in there. It may also be worth noting that I live in Charleston, SC and some folks are adamant about never fueling up downtown because they say salt water can seep into the station tanks. I have no idea if this is true or not. Regardless, the next thing I am going to try is pumping the gas out of the tank and replacing it with some no ethanol rec fuel.
What do you think? Could it be the gas? Do we think it is most likely the distributor? The Carb? If we think it is the carb, how do we explain the engine starting and running then all of a sudden stalling out after a few minutes with no change in inputs (gas pedal position, choke position, etc). I'll not, again, that after it stalls the carb bowl is at 1/2 - 3/4, so I don't suspect the pump is the problem.
Thanks all. I'm hella perplexed on this one.
- Thread starter
- #37
Ok cool. I thought so! Oh and just to check, the firing order can't be screwed up by anything other than mixing up the wires? Say, if the rotor stops near 6 instead of 1...no harm done? I was planning to just replace the rotor since it's cheap. If I swap a new rotor on, do I have to do anything special to make sure it is aligned a certain way to start?Yeah, meant to say distributor rotor, sorry about that. And I was thinking you pulled and replaced the plug wires so was guessing that maybe they by chance got put on wrong. Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4 (or a way to remember is “too young, too old, just right”
THX
middlecalf
SILVER Star
Just put the new one on in the same position as the old one, it will only go on one way, just don’t rotate it ( I don’t think you can if the dizzy is still seated).
brooklyn
SILVER Star
My guess is carburetor has become fouled and needs a rebuild. You might want to see if you can locate an inexpensive working carb. It’s always nice to have a backup when you trouble shoot or keep the truck running during a carburetor rebuild.
Good luck — you been really fighting this one!
Good luck — you been really fighting this one!
fyton2v
SILVER Star
I doubt it's bad gas. I think I would tackle the carburetor ... so what Brooklyn said 
. Keep at it. I'm an amateur at this stuff and rebuilt my own carb with some help from PinHead's videos on YouTube (It's not hard, but requires time and patience). If you have neither of those things, but you do have money, there are 2 people on this forum who are quite famous for carb overhauls. That would be FJ40Jim and 65swb45. There are probably others (I'm sorry if I missed someone in the rebuild business).
Anyhow, I brought up timing just as a simple thing to rule out. If your plugs aren't firing in the right order, or if you somehow rotated your distributor while messing around in there ... it'll make starting harder. Your timing would need to be off by quite a lot though. If you're sure the wires are correct, and the dizzy doesn't turn by hand .... carburetor, I guess? If you can turn your dizzy by hand, do think about timing.
. Keep at it. I'm an amateur at this stuff and rebuilt my own carb with some help from PinHead's videos on YouTube (It's not hard, but requires time and patience). If you have neither of those things, but you do have money, there are 2 people on this forum who are quite famous for carb overhauls. That would be FJ40Jim and 65swb45. There are probably others (I'm sorry if I missed someone in the rebuild business).Anyhow, I brought up timing just as a simple thing to rule out. If your plugs aren't firing in the right order, or if you somehow rotated your distributor while messing around in there ... it'll make starting harder. Your timing would need to be off by quite a lot though. If you're sure the wires are correct, and the dizzy doesn't turn by hand .... carburetor, I guess? If you can turn your dizzy by hand, do think about timing.
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