no rear brakes

[tonkota]

My 1989 FJ62 has no rear brakes. I can have the back end up in the air and put the transmission in 2nd gear and the tires spin freely. They will slow down once I let off the throttle.

I took the drums off (thanks to those two little threaded holes!).

What I found was some shoes with ok thickness. But they were very glossy, and cracked all over. The drums are equally smooth. The wheel cylinders work well. I had the wife push on the brakes a little while I watched them actuate. They extend and retract fine.

I have great front brakes, so I am ruling out the master cylinder.

Will the glossed shoes cause this severe nonworking brake issue?

What would cause this?

I'm going to get some new shoes tomorrow and see about having my drums turned or buy some new.

 

[raydouble]

Shoes waaaaaay out of adjustment.
Bet you don't have a working e-brake either.

Turn the star wheel in the bottom center to push out shoes, they should just barely contact the drum when they are in correct position.

BTW you shouldn't push on the brake pedal with the drums removed, you can over-extend the wheel cylinders normal movement, tearing seals, causing leaks.


You have fluid in the master right.......
correct me if I'm wrong but you have two reservoirs inside the master one for front brakes one for rear?
Is one empty?
Look for leaks if one is.

Oh and no on the brake shoes causing it.

 

[KLF]

Depending on how you have the back end up in the air, you might not have any brakes because the LSPV is shutting them off.

I'm also thinking they just need adjusting. Do you use your e-brake? This is how they automatically adjust. If you don't use it (some people don't bother), then they can't adjust as they wear.

 

[t100boy]

Ditto on using the parking brake. I never use to til I had no rear brakes ...adjusted pads per manual. Manual said use p brake and I do and rears work great.

 

[tonkota]

I guess I should have mentioned that I did adjust the brakes prior to the test. The axle is up on jack stands (not just hanging) and I have 400# of bricks in the back to take to my brothers house.

I used to use the parking brake until my bellcrank froze up. I'll be fixing that while it's open.

Master is full, we did a full flush a year or so ago with a brake pot.

 

[raydouble]

Well you should get something???

I don't see, if the shoes are adjusted and you can see the wheel cylinders moving, how the shoes aren't contacting the drums.

Did you measure in the ID of the drums? Max diameter should be stamped on them.

 

[Wile E Coyote]

New shoes and cleaned up drums couldn't hurt, but it sounds to me like your problem lies 99% with still out of adjustment brakes. Unfreeze those bellcranks, then readjust the brakes again. Start using the e-brake again, and you will keep the rears adjusted from there on out.
I wouldn't totally discount ole KLF's point about the LSPV's position further dampening those rears.

 

[tonkota]

correct me if I'm wrong but you have two reservoirs inside the master one for front brakes one for rear?

What do you mean by this?

And how do you guys adjust your rear brakes? I know how I do it, but I learned a new way yesterday while talking with my brother.

I used to adjust until the shoes dragged.

He said to turn the adjuster all the way out (as far as possible) and then back off. This way you know it wasn't just one shoe dragging and the other was 4 miles away.

Any other ways?

 

[raydouble]

What do you mean by this?

Usually the brake systems are split into two parts, front/rear for RWD or diagonal split for FWD vehicles.
In case one of the systems fails, you still have some brakes.

Inside the master cylinder reservoir is there a divider that keeps fluid on one side or the other?

I would also pull out rear bleeders from wheel cylinders and see if there is corrosion inside the cylinder or the bleeder screw. Bleed the rear brakes while you're back there.

Did you notice when they stopped working?

 

[lehiguy]

If there is any lip on your drums get them measured and turned if possible. I like to do my adjusting with the drum off. If there is a lip, it makes it impossible to adjust properly with the drum off becuase you can't get it back on. Having said that, I must confess that the recent addition of rear disks was worth the effort! I'm no longer scared of stopping.

 

[tonkota]

If there is any lip on your drums get them measured and turned if possible. I like to do my adjusting with the drum off. If there is a lip, it makes it impossible to adjust properly with the drum off becuase you can't get it back on. Having said that, I must confess that the recent addition of rear disks was worth the effort! I'm no longer scared of stopping.

I had them turned today. I'll put it back together tonight and see what I have.

If I would have needed to purchase new drums, I would have really looked into rear disc brakes. Those new drums are pricey!

 

[2mbb]

Inside the master cylinder reservoir is there a divider that keeps fluid on one side or the other?

/QUOTE]

The 60 series has a single reservoir that feeds both the front and rear sections of the master cylinder. But there is only one reservoir to fill.

 

[raydouble]

Any updates?

Did you get a chance to install?

 

[rchalmers3]

I'm thinking the master is failing, at least the rear portion. Until you put a pressure gauge on the system and apply the brakes, looking at the movement of the shoes and calling it good is just an assumption. Rear brakes need to see 900 psi or so. What are you getting?

Another test to determine if the rear brake pressure is problematic would be to apply brakes and hold them to see if there's an initial building of pressure that expands the shoes then bleeds back through the master cylinder. The rear brakes would clamp briefly then spin free.

Hope this is of assistance,

Rick

 

[tonkota]

Update:

I have the rear brakes in. They are better, but still not what I would like. I'm not sure how to test the pressure. I don't have the equipment to do that. My e-brake works well (and I use it every time I park now). What is the TLCA testing procedure for the e-brake again? low range, 2nd gear, 1000 RPM?

If I replace the master, should I go with the T-100 unit?

Sorry it took me so long to update.

 

[rchalmers3]

Update:

I have the rear brakes in. They are better, but still not what I would like. I'm not sure how to test the pressure. I don't have the equipment to do that.

Is there someone in your area that rents diagnostic equipment or services?

If I replace the master, should I go with the T-100 unit?

Be careful with that idea. Changing the relationship of the effective areas of the master vs. the brakes will alter the pedal travel and effort required to provide the same stopping ability. To keep the outcome predictable I would advise you use a good quality master that is correct for the application.

Rick

 

[CruisinFJ60]

too lazy to read everything else... but...

never rule out a master cylinde just cause the front brakes work perfect it has 2 sections and the rear half could have failed meaning it needs rebuilt or replaced. the exact opposite is also true.