Best of luck! I'm still in the searching phase for a LC, but a future project to go diesel someday down the road would be a dream... thanks for sharing this!
Builds New project - 12H-T turbo diesel transplant into my 1991 FJ80. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Stone
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #22
Starter
Converted my starter from 24V to 12V today. 100% of the internal parts from a 12V 3B starter is identical to the internals of a 24V starter (except for voltage, of course). I just had to take them apart so that I can use my 12H-T nose cone on the 12V 3B parts, and essentially I have a brand new starter! I will have to move the drain at the back of the housing because it ends up in the wrong spot (on top instead of the bottom) when this swap is done.
Part number for the 12V 3B starter (reman.) is 28100-56111-84...list is $286.06 CAD, but I'm sure there's way better deals than that.
If you're fiddling with adding an AC pump to your 12H-T because yours didn't come with one...as G&S have discovered, be aware that there are a few 12H-T alternator choices and not all of them are compatible with the AC bracketry. The one that came with my engine had a larger body and wouldn't follow the radius of the bracket...kept getting stuck near the bottom of the pump.
Converted my starter from 24V to 12V today. 100% of the internal parts from a 12V 3B starter is identical to the internals of a 24V starter (except for voltage, of course). I just had to take them apart so that I can use my 12H-T nose cone on the 12V 3B parts, and essentially I have a brand new starter! I will have to move the drain at the back of the housing because it ends up in the wrong spot (on top instead of the bottom) when this swap is done.
Part number for the 12V 3B starter (reman.) is 28100-56111-84...list is $286.06 CAD, but I'm sure there's way better deals than that.
If you're fiddling with adding an AC pump to your 12H-T because yours didn't come with one...as G&S have discovered, be aware that there are a few 12H-T alternator choices and not all of them are compatible with the AC bracketry. The one that came with my engine had a larger body and wouldn't follow the radius of the bracket...kept getting stuck near the bottom of the pump.
isn't there something about the gasser transmissions have the wrong shift points for a diesel? Or is the stock transmission getting a custom build?
the 3fe bellhousing pattern may be different to the 12ht. Not too sure on the auto input shaft either. on the aussie 5 speeds the shaft is different between 2/3f and 2/12h motors
Your best bet imo would be to try and fit the full time case to the 60 series auto. should be an interesting outcome.
you may have to regear the diffs too. on a stock 60, with 4.3's 60mph is around 2000rpm from memory. I'd be aiming for slightly higher in the slightly heavier 80.
70sguy
SILVER Star
Yes, different....shift points are based on the engines Torque/HP to RPM relationship as far as I understand it.
3FE = 220ftlbs @ 2200 RPM
12H-T = 231ftlbs @ 2000 RPM
Not too far off. Given how the A440F seems to dump into OD early, the higher torque at lower RPM
should work out.
The first order of business is to find the combination of parts that will bolt together.
If we are successful bolting the 12H-T to the FJ80 440F then Stone puts some miles on it
and get a feel for how and where it shifts, then we enlist the help of Rodney at Wholesale Automatics
for Torque converter/ Extreme valve body work to tweak the trannny characteristics.
70sguy
SILVER Star
Hope I am not speaking out of turn here Stone.....
Bellhousing is different pattern on the engine side for sure, which I is why we are using the 12H-T ATM BH. We are expecting the Tranny side of BH to be the same as the 3FE BH, same part numbers and QTY on the bolts.
The ATM input shaft Sub assy is same part number between FJ80 A440F and HJ61 A440F
So we are cautiously optimistic about that end of making this work. We still need to explore
Torque converter length and bolt pattern compatibility at the ring gear. Not ruling out having to get a custom Torque converter built. We'll figure it all out once we get the 3FE/A440F/HF2A out next to the 12H-T/A440F on the garage floor.
Pretty sure the stock 4.10s are going to be just fine as the 12H-T has plenty of grunt and spins 33" tires nicely through the stock 4.11 diffs in the 60. At any rate, minor detail.
- Thread starter
- #27
Not at all, Shel...you're the brains behind this operation. 
I think cautiously optimistic nicely sums up our hopes of having the 12H-T and BH bolt up to my FJ80 440 tranny...and the 12H-T torque converter being able to just swap over.
I'd love to have the Extreme components from Rodney, but $ is a factor, and it would be good to know what works together before making too many changes anyway.
I think an extra $1-2k in parts and mods for this swap may have been a little on the coservative side, eh?
Minor update:
The three alternators, 24V H series large body, 24V H series small body, and 12V B series, are going back to the alternator shop. The small body H series alternator is the one that works with the bracketry for the AC compressor...unfortunately, it is also an externally regulated model. I'll have to see if he can convert it not only to 12V, but also into an internally regulated model. I'm hoping...
I've taken off the turbo and exhaust manifold and they will be getting ceramic coated in the next little while.
I think cautiously optimistic nicely sums up our hopes of having the 12H-T and BH bolt up to my FJ80 440 tranny...and the 12H-T torque converter being able to just swap over.
I'd love to have the Extreme components from Rodney, but $ is a factor, and it would be good to know what works together before making too many changes anyway.
I think an extra $1-2k in parts and mods for this swap may have been a little on the coservative side, eh?
Minor update:
The three alternators, 24V H series large body, 24V H series small body, and 12V B series, are going back to the alternator shop. The small body H series alternator is the one that works with the bracketry for the AC compressor...unfortunately, it is also an externally regulated model. I'll have to see if he can convert it not only to 12V, but also into an internally regulated model. I'm hoping...
I've taken off the turbo and exhaust manifold and they will be getting ceramic coated in the next little while.
This is an awesome build. You guys beat me to it. I just bought a 40th anniversay FZ80 GXL Auto with EXACTLY the same idea. I have a HJ61 VX and also a spare 12H-T engine.
I am doing a twin turbo build at the moment and will use Rodney (whom I have met and used to do a stg2 kit for my earlier 80 1HD-T; great guy) alo. By the way, I asked to have 3rd always lock up as well as 4th - it ranked as one of the best mods ever because even with over 500nm torque, 3rd was needed on some of the mountain roads and on the beach it was indespensible.
Anyway, great stuff, I can hardly believe it because you guys are answering all my questions within months of when I will be doing it myself!!!
I am doing a twin turbo build at the moment and will use Rodney (whom I have met and used to do a stg2 kit for my earlier 80 1HD-T; great guy) alo. By the way, I asked to have 3rd always lock up as well as 4th - it ranked as one of the best mods ever because even with over 500nm torque, 3rd was needed on some of the mountain roads and on the beach it was indespensible.
Anyway, great stuff, I can hardly believe it because you guys are answering all my questions within months of when I will be doing it myself!!!
It it legal in Canada to put in the older engine?? I am guessing not. I could get it all approved if tuned correctly here in Perth however the cost is an AUD 2000 test!! I might leave it.......
Stone; I spoke with Rodney about this matter a month or so ago. He said that the torque converter as fitted st in the HJ61 (ie: 12H-T) was the worst that has ever graced an auto transmission. Having said that, the std fitment item to the HDJ81 was one of the best!! He said way bigger than the former.
He has a completely custom billet converter he sells for around AUD 1100 from memory.
I would like to know if the HDJ81 converter will fit in the 12H-T A440F bellhousing...???
I had him lower the stall speed on my HDJ81 converter to make better use of the low down torque. It was a mistake though - twin turbo (compound) should be OK though
He has a completely custom billet converter he sells for around AUD 1100 from memory.
I would like to know if the HDJ81 converter will fit in the 12H-T A440F bellhousing...???
I had him lower the stall speed on my HDJ81 converter to make better use of the low down torque. It was a mistake though - twin turbo (compound) should be OK though
and........no the torque converter fitted std to the 3F is not the same as the 1HD-T :-(
70sguy
SILVER Star
Yup... knew about that. Compared em on the bench a few years ago when I did a couple of 91 FJ80 1HD-T A442F (w/ extreme valve body of course)
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Not at all, Shel...you're the brains behind this operation.
I think cautiously optimistic nicely sums up our hopes of having the 12H-T and BH bolt up to my FJ80 440 tranny...and the 12H-T torque converter being able to just swap over.
I'd love to have the Extreme components from Rodney, but $ is a factor, and it would be good to know what works together before making too many changes anyway.
I think an extra $1-2k in parts and mods for this swap may have been a little on the coservative side, eh?
Minor update:
The three alternators, 24V H series large body, 24V H series small body, and 12V B series, are going back to the alternator shop. The small body H series alternator is the one that works with the bracketry for the AC compressor...unfortunately, it is also an externally regulated model. I'll have to see if he can convert it not only to 12V, but also into an internally regulated model. I'm hoping...
I've taken off the turbo and exhaust manifold and they will be getting ceramic coated in the next little while.
Yep, had a couple converted, was around 450.00.
Rob
It's legal to do just about anything in Canada, even the Federal government grows pot!
The only issue we (and by we, I mean those of us living in the lower mainland of British Columbia) have with dropping older engines into newer vehicles, is aircare (smog nazi's). But it's not that big of a deal.
Lift's over a few inches are supposed to be (but rarely are) certified by a government certified inspection facility, which is usually some grease monkey, who is by no means an engineer, as I understand things in Australia are supposed to be.
- Thread starter
- #35
Stone; I spoke with Rodney about this matter a month or so ago. He said that the torque converter as fitted st in the HJ61 (ie: 12H-T) was the worst that has ever graced an auto transmission. Having said that, the std fitment item to the HDJ81 was one of the best!! He said way bigger than the former.
He has a completely custom billet converter he sells for around AUD 1100 from memory.
I would like to know if the HDJ81 converter will fit in the 12H-T A440F bellhousing...???
I had him lower the stall speed on my HDJ81 converter to make better use of the low down torque. It was a mistake though - twin turbo (compound) should be OK though
I'd love to eventually put in an Extreme torque converter and valve body from Rodney. Plan for now is to just bolt up the FJ80 A440F to the 12H-T using the 12H-T converter, and get a baseline on how it drives.
- Thread starter
- #36
Major update...March 21, 2009.
So today was a very productive day for the swap. Put in the new water pump and thermostat and Sheldon and I managed to split the HJ60 tranny off of the 12HT.
Took off the 12HT torque converter and made a comparison to the 3FE converter. The bodies are pretty much identical, but the 3FE has a bigger lug in the middle, and it sits taller than the 12HT converter. The 12HT converter is the one on the left in these pics...
In this next pic, we test fit the 12HT torque converter onto the input shaft of the 3FE auto tranny...it slid on perfectly fine.
Next, we slid off the torque converter and bolted on the 12HT bell housing onto the 3FE tranny...fits perfectly.
The 12HT torque converter installed inside the 12HT bell housing on the 3FE tranny. The torque converter slides in fairly far...when it sits at the furthest point, the face of the converter is about 46 mm from the edge of the bell housing...more then enough according to the FSM.
We temporarily bolted on the 12HT ring gear to test fit it on to the torque converter inside the bell housing. It went it a little further than when I took this picture...the teeth line up perfectly with the RPM sensor on the bell housing.
So........with everything going so well, we decided to see if everything will bolt up together.
And....................it did!
12HT motor, 12HT backing plate, 12HT ring gear, 12HT bell housing, 12HT torque converter, 3FE A440f tranny.
That looks like one happy guy behind that engine combo! One step closer to a 12HT powered FJ80...YES!!!!
Question to those of you who have a lot of experience putting together auto trannies...
As I stated earlier, the 12HT torque converter actually sits fairly deep into the 3FE A440 shaft. When we put the combo together, the torque converter actually comes forward about 5 mm to mate with the ring gear. By our calculations, the torque converter still sits within spec according to the measurement that the FSM gave us. Does this sound normal...or is the torque converter supposed to sit tight against the front of the tranny?
I have no experience doing this...but I was thinking that since the FSM stated the the torque converter should be at a specific MINIMUM depth OR MORE, then there is room for play and as long as the end result is within the minimum depth, then everything should be fine.
Anyone able to give us a definite answer? Thanks.
So today was a very productive day for the swap. Put in the new water pump and thermostat and Sheldon and I managed to split the HJ60 tranny off of the 12HT.
Took off the 12HT torque converter and made a comparison to the 3FE converter. The bodies are pretty much identical, but the 3FE has a bigger lug in the middle, and it sits taller than the 12HT converter. The 12HT converter is the one on the left in these pics...
In this next pic, we test fit the 12HT torque converter onto the input shaft of the 3FE auto tranny...it slid on perfectly fine.
Next, we slid off the torque converter and bolted on the 12HT bell housing onto the 3FE tranny...fits perfectly.
The 12HT torque converter installed inside the 12HT bell housing on the 3FE tranny. The torque converter slides in fairly far...when it sits at the furthest point, the face of the converter is about 46 mm from the edge of the bell housing...more then enough according to the FSM.
We temporarily bolted on the 12HT ring gear to test fit it on to the torque converter inside the bell housing. It went it a little further than when I took this picture...the teeth line up perfectly with the RPM sensor on the bell housing.
So........with everything going so well, we decided to see if everything will bolt up together.
And....................it did!
12HT motor, 12HT backing plate, 12HT ring gear, 12HT bell housing, 12HT torque converter, 3FE A440f tranny.
That looks like one happy guy behind that engine combo! One step closer to a 12HT powered FJ80...YES!!!!
Question to those of you who have a lot of experience putting together auto trannies...
As I stated earlier, the 12HT torque converter actually sits fairly deep into the 3FE A440 shaft. When we put the combo together, the torque converter actually comes forward about 5 mm to mate with the ring gear. By our calculations, the torque converter still sits within spec according to the measurement that the FSM gave us. Does this sound normal...or is the torque converter supposed to sit tight against the front of the tranny?
I have no experience doing this...but I was thinking that since the FSM stated the the torque converter should be at a specific MINIMUM depth OR MORE, then there is room for play and as long as the end result is within the minimum depth, then everything should be fine.
Anyone able to give us a definite answer? Thanks.
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Very nice .. Do you by any chance have any plans on putting a bigger turbo?
- Thread starter
- #39
Thanks guys...Lexusman450...I don't have any plans on changing the turbo for now. There's a recently rebuilt 12HT CT26 in there that I'm going to take in for ceramic coating. I'm fairly happy with the power/torque of the 12HT with the CT26...the only thing I'm going to do is turn up the boost a little bit (maybe 12-15 psi). I already bought a manual boost controller for it.
I'm trying to balance power with fuel consumption and longevity. I don't forsee towing anything too heavy...mostly just the family and fishing/camping gear and the 14' jon boat behind the truck.
I'm trying to balance power with fuel consumption and longevity. I don't forsee towing anything too heavy...mostly just the family and fishing/camping gear and the 14' jon boat behind the truck.
70sguy
SILVER Star
A couple of better quality pics of the combo.
