Builds My LC 80 thread. (1 Viewer)

[Dave 2000]

Just returned from a pretty miserable 5 day trip, I spent more time sitting on my arse than off roading, anyway thats another story.

I just want to post up some accurate weight and fuel figures. In general I get an average of about 28 MPG (Imperial). This is with the normal run of the mill load and usage. Last Friday I loaded up for the full monty trip (which was pretty much a flop), and my 80's all up weight was 2,840kg, I also used the trip to work out my fuel figures.

Around 100 miles @ steady 60 MPH to the venue, another 100 miles running around town and a couple of gnarly stop/start trails totaling about 50 miles, engine rarely switched off but AC on whenever engine was running. Then 140 miles @ 70 MPH back home and then some local running around in town, a good mix totaling 415 miles.

The result is a tad over 24 MPG, not bad at all IMO.

FWIW weight distribution was 1,500kg over rear axle, and 1,340kg over front.

I will post up PWM fan info later.

Regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

So my trip last week was the first real test for the latest electric engine cooling fan install. As per my last post the 80 really was loaded and at 2,840kg, this is the heaviest it has ever been, add in around 200kg of humans and she was set to go.

The trail choice included a trip up to a manned mountain top fire watch station, a long steady drive in low range 2nd gear, at one point we were were stopped by some hikers who questioned the ability of the 80 and the 40 of my friend Rodger to get up the steep rocky slope.

Long story short, both vehicles made the climb without incident, I did keep an eye on the temp gauge and fan warning LED's but need not bother, the AC was on so the fan (programmed to run at 50%) was coming on for a short period and then shutting off, this in response to the AC trinary switch. This was enough to keep the engine cool for the entire climb in 30°C + heat so I am pretty chuffed to see that.

Poor trail choice meant saws and axes were needed to get the two cars through, the larger 80 taking quite a beating, the left rear quarter taking a hit from a tree as I was having to force my way through. Plenty of stop/start periods as the trail was cleared, the engine in the 80 left running so the occupants could stay cool, the actual trail distance less driving to and from it was about 10km, less a lunch break it took about five hours to get through, this included moving a large boulder using a hand winch and the iron bumper of Rodgers 40 to shift it. Also added to the trail time was a washed out trench that Rodger's 40 was straddling and fell into, it took awhile to get him out towing him out backwards, fortunately damage was minimal. We were pretty much stuck with the trail, no ability to turn and run, so battled through, a long hot day for all.

So again the 80 performed faultlessly under all conditions, I was pleased to say the least.

Regards

Dave

 

[kevsta]

no pics Dave? a 40 and a heavily loaded 80 on an epic one-way climb should have made for good imagery.

glad to hear she's back to faultless reliability again, sorry it was a miserable trip

I would be very happy with an overall 24mpg, but lack of motorways here makes that an unlikely target for me I fear.

also need to find a weighbridge somewhere so I can get front/rear load weights too.

how much was she pressed down from the extra load? its a shame you didnt get lower wheel rim to arch measurements front and rear under full loading for reference.

I got the rare opportunity to briefly stand mine next to a stocker a couple of weeks back. I think he's still on his original factory suspension, and stock tyres, and basically empty, whereas mine has an extra 350kg (the usual 200kg plus 2 kart engines, 2 x 45kg dogs and a full tank) in this pic

If / when I had this much weight on my standard springs we would have been nose-upwards and handling like a Sunseeker

Edit. Google pics did this to one of my photos, nice huh? standard permanent 200kg loading there.

 

[Dave 2000]

Hi Kev, there are pics and videos aplenty, mainly taken by Rodgers friends, if they come my way I will post a couple up. The car is still loaded up, we are out again this coming Friday for a couple of days, if I remember I will grab a tape measure.

The pic of the standard version looks like mine, sun is setting so getting dark here now, but snapped a couple of pics for you. She looks s little low in the rear but road is uneven, and left rear is in a dip, when on a level surface she sits pretty much level. Living higher up our mud track drains pretty quick, but we have to suffer the ruts and holes lower down on the way out.........well until the neighbours get together and bung the local who owns a JCB.

For your information (and my memory), the weight over the rear axle is 1,500kg, and front is 1,340kg.

I will use these figures when choosing my next set of springs/shocks, TBH the stock setup rides really good both laden and unladen, other than looking for some extra ground clearance I am happy with the performance 'as is', so don't wish to screw it up, Mr T got this area of the 80 spot on IMO, but my long suffering fuel tank armour tells me a couple of extra inches would be good.

Just received some directions/co ords to meet Rodger Friday am, catch you later.

Hmmm, pictures loaded a bit odd, adjusted spacing and looks OK (to me) now.

Regards

Dave

 

[kevsta]

yeah, I would have completely mangled and ripped up my sills by now, at your height with my weekend rock crawling antics, especially as airing down for the knarly stuff drops her a little too. there's been a little bit of touching and paint-scraping, but nothing too bad yet. I REALLY want sliders on it. bluddy gubment.

Im umming a bit about fitting the Pedders + 2" long travel shocks though, as Im sure that having the standard Toyota shocks on it reduces suspicion of modification (lift) at ITV time. Im also certain that the OME 2861/62s would go straight through inspection if I wasnt also spacering them, as they are only +15mm (front) and + 20mm (rear) without the spacers.

but red Pedders shocks are going to draw attention to the whole area, and the giveaway is the dual-rate winding of the coils, obvs Mr T never fitted those at the factory. maybe I should just matt-black the shocks. If I put them on, I also need to fit the stainless extended brake lines really, as the Pedders will stretch out more than the Tokikos, and draw still more attention to it all.

I have to say though, I really cant recommend the OMEs enough. You might be happy now, but I think you would be overjoyed at the extra firmness and control, over heavily laden original coils. did you notice much difference going from old saggy to new coils at the front?

 

[JOHN OF LONDON]

I fitted Peddars plus 2 inch springs and shockers before my current trek to the Caucasus. I'm very pleased with the fronts but it feels, and looks, overloaded at the back. I'm hoping to find a weighbridge before I unpack to see just how overloaded it is!
As the suspension felt fine before I loaded up I'm contemplating adding some airlift helpers at the back which I can inflate when heavily loaded. The rear dampers though allow a bit of bounce on sleeping policemen so I'm thinking I need something stiffer or adjustable might be needed. All suggestions welcomed!

 

[Dave 2000]

yeah, I would have completely mangled and ripped up my sills by now, at your height with my weekend rock crawling antics, especially as airing down for the knarly stuff drops her a little too. there's been a little bit of touching and paint-scraping, but nothing too bad yet. I REALLY want sliders on it. bluddy gubment.

Im umming a bit about fitting the Pedders + 2" long travel shocks though, as Im sure that having the standard Toyota shocks on it reduces suspicion of modification (lift) at ITV time. Im also certain that the OME 2861/62s would go straight through inspection if I wasnt also spacering them, as they are only +15mm (front) and + 20mm (rear) without the spacers.

but red Pedders shocks are going to draw attention to the whole area, and the giveaway is the dual-rate winding of the coils, obvs Mr T never fitted those at the factory. maybe I should just matt-black the shocks. If I put them on, I also need to fit the stainless extended brake lines really, as the Pedders will stretch out more than the Tokikos, and draw still more attention to it all.

I have to say though, I really cant recommend the OMEs enough. You might be happy now, but I think you would be overjoyed at the extra firmness and control, over heavily laden original coils. did you notice much difference going from old saggy to new coils at the front?

Stainless brake lines are allowed here at the test station. Re suspension, anything that stands out will attract greater scrutiny, I would spray non stock suspension stuff matt black, fit the day after the new test certificate, a year later with dust, mud and crap over them I doubt they would get a second glance, if it looks right they move on.

Re the front spring change, no real difference in everyday use, but did notice it was less noisey when hitting speed humps, perhaps the old ones were bottoming out?

@JOHN OF LONDON, yep a weighbridge is the way to go mate, as I go out on my own a lot I do carry a hell of a lot of gear, this would include 40 litres of extra diesel, 50+ litres of water, 10 litres of engine oil, spare alternator, starter, CV and flange and so forth. Have you the choice of distributing your gear around maybe giving you a better stance?

I am thinking about cutting the tailgate and fitting a lid, I would like to fit the base of the 5ft Hi Lift with a quick release clevis pin, and store the lot in the tailgate, this would move some weight off the roof. I also reckon I must have 8+ bow shackles in a box inside.......why.....I have no idea! I need to sit and have a good think and rationalise my gear.

Regards

Dave

 

[kevsta]

Stainless brake lines are allowed here at the test station. Re suspension, anything that stands out will attract greater scrutiny, I would spray non stock suspension stuff matt black, fit the day after the new test certificate, a year later with dust, mud and crap over them I doubt they would get a second glance, if it looks right they move on.

thats very good news about the brake lines. in fact then I think you just described my plan. ITV runs out in Nov, and will be about January by the time they have a slot for me, so I'll put it all on straight after, when Im putting the drawers and roofrack back on. maybe I'll fit the 2" receiver tow hitch for a year too (finally, had it since 2013) (check me assuming that I can pass emissions this time round lol)

Re the front spring change, no real difference in everyday use, but did notice it was less noisey when hitting speed humps, perhaps the old ones were bottoming out?

quite possibly with sagging over time? I was (originally back in the day) surprised to see a mere 30mm or so clearance as standard at front strut bump stops. visually it didnt look enough, although thats how they came, so it must be. currently have 70mm clearance there.

 

[kevsta]

I fitted Peddars plus 2 inch springs and shockers before my current trek to the Caucasus. I'm very pleased with the fronts but it feels, and looks, overloaded at the back. I'm hoping to find a weighbridge before I unpack to see just how overloaded it is!
As the suspension felt fine before I loaded up I'm contemplating adding some airlift helpers at the back which I can inflate when heavily loaded. The rear dampers though allow a bit of bounce on sleeping policemen so I'm thinking I need something stiffer or adjustable might be needed. All suggestions welcomed!

yeah, this whole adjustable rear thing has been on my mind too. my rear OME mediums totally caved in with 2 extra people and 300kg of tiles in the back (plus my permanent 200kg) when I collected them for a friend in Feb. it might not be as bad again now as I have another 15mm of spacing there, but as you say it would still feel overloaded, and ultimately I wanted to hang my 150KG KTM off the back of the (50kg) tow hitch, so given the extra leverage, she's going to sag again.

airbags would be ideal for just the occasional extreme loading as it's perfect with just the permanent loading, but I dont see the Spanish inspection crew liking added on airbags much either

what were the ratings of your Pedders rears, do you know?

 

[Dave 2000]

Just got back from a very short trip, again loaded to the hilt. Left Thursday PM, out all day yesterday, but last night thunderstorms and the typical flooding stopped play today. I was hoping to return late Monday or Tuesday, as at the moment I am going to disappear up my own arse as the workload is building, and the canyons are going to be overwhelmed for a few days se called it a day, fingers crossed I am out again the first week of October?

Our guests ftom the UK did get some spectacular views yesterday, the rain finished their fun here as well, hopefully the rain will not follow them around Spain.

So a FYI for @kevsta bottom edge of wheel arch to lowest point on the rim is as near as dammit 70mm, all round, perhaps a variance of a couple of mm between the four?


So to the 80, business as usual apart from a recent occurance of coolant loss. I say recent, more accurately since flushing and fitting all new hoses and thermostat. I noticed after the trip a couple of weeks back, the radiator level was down from the usual lower neck about 1/2 inch? Keeping in mind there is an elevated area of the rad and not the full width of the header tank, so to all intents and purposes a test tube full.

The level in the expansion tank though was up, so I simply tipped some back into the radiator, last night I checked again and the result was the same except some rusty residue at the bottom of the tank?

Given the old girl was flushed out just a couple of months ago I am surprised to see this. So, making use of the sabbath, I will drain and refill tomorrow am with another load of brand new antifreeze. I am thinking an extra turn on the hose clips should sort it.

EDIT: As my drive home was around 90 minutes in pouring rain, so not actually working the engine hard, curiosity has got the better of me. I gave her a couple of hours to cool down and checked the level.

As per earlier, the radiator down same 1/2 inch, and expansion tank up same as last time. Granted the engine may not have cooled enough to draw back the coolant however, normally as you release the cap some coolant flows from the pipe in the expansion tank.......nothing!

So I decided not to wait, and today @263,879 I have just been out and drained the entire system again, cleaned expansion tank, and put a turn on each of the hose clips. Rad cap looks good (both valves) but will order a new one tomorrow anyway, accurately filled expansion tank, and going out now to refill with new antifreeze, a leak tends to show sooner than earlier with fresh coolant.


I will keep a close eye on the levels and report back soon.

Regards

Dave

 

[JOHN OF LONDON]

My memory is failing! The replacement springs were not Peddars but Suplex +45mm uprated, from Rough Trax. Best I could find at the time and I had to replace a broken spring. Couldn't find a weighbridge between Dover and Home but the rear rose 60mm on each side from laden to empty; though the roof rack, roof tent and spare wheel are still up top, I'll measure again when the tent and wheel are off; rrofrack is a semi-permanent fixture. I've written to Suplex for the spring rate so this should give me a fair idea of the weight and whether the AirLift kit will solve the problem. Next job is a thorough overhaul of the AC system. Has anybody any suggestions on how to give the system a good test in winter in London when its done?

 

[Dave 2000]

@JOHN OF LONDON Re the AC, just have it vacuumed, then gassed up with added dye, any leaks soon show up. The alluminium pipes and 'O' rings are the weskest links.

Regards

Dave

 

[JOHN OF LONDON]

Yes!
Trouble is I did all that, and had a new condenser fitted before I set off and it ceased to work a month later. Went through the whole process again in Bulgaria, including refurbishing the pump and it worked for two weeks. A further attempt in Azerbaijan got it to work for a couple of days, at which point I gave up.
Plan now is relocate the dryer from behind the bumper using early model R12 OEM pipework, replacing all the ally tubes and cleaning out the evaporator to remove 24 years worth of debris and replacing the evaporator, and all the "O" rings and valves. Joy.
Then I can get round to thinking about the cooling system. The MkVlll fan at full power is not keeping up with engine cooling on flat out climbs in 2nd gear on long hills even at 2,500rpm, even without the AC working; though the twin coolers keep the autobox below 120. The radiator is a newish Rough Trax aluminium one. I'm using 33% antifreeze which is probably excessive and could safely be reduced to the minimum required for corrosion inhibition which should improve the cooling a bit but I'd like to eliminate having to change concentration for summer and winter. I've also got a stainless steel mesh behind the plastic grill to catch bugs before they block the radiators but which may be reducing airflow. I am thinking I may remove the plastic grill and just leave the mesh if I can find a good way to support it. Not ready to think about a Mercedes fan yet, but it may come to that.

 

[Dave 2000]

So you have a leak in the AC hence the non working problem.

You say the engjne is overheating? Blowing out water from rad ect, or going by the guage?

Mine run for years with no issue, if your engine is overheating with the MK 8 fan, then the Mercedes unit will not help.

Regards

Dave

 

[JOHN OF LONDON]

Yes, undoubtedly I have a leaking AC system, all I have to do is find it and fix it! So far its defeated 3 professionals so I'm going with the full dismantle, inspect, rebuild routine.
I've done the temperature gauge modification; it runs in normal circumstances at the half way point on the gauge with minor movements which is, I assume, controlled by the thermostat. I have a BMW dual temperature switch which is specified as opening and closing at 90-85 and 97-92. In practise it opens on low speed when the needle is mid red and at high speed at the top of the red. The high speed fan goes off at about the 3/4 mark on the gauge, and the low speed at about 1/2. When it is running at high speed climbing a steep main road hill at high throttle openings in 2nd gear in the autobox (45-50mph) there is a clear relationship between temperature and throttle opening and it would be clearly possible to overheat the system with the fan on full. I understood from your comments that the Merc fan pulled a lot more air through so it should run cooler.
I guess it is possible that the thermostat is not opening fully so I'll be trying the new OEM one I've just ordered when it arrives.

 

[Dave 2000]

Whilst the Mercedes fan pulls more air than the MK 8, if your present setup is not cooling then I thought there may be a problem? You do run yours hotter than I would be comfortable with, and did not realise you were dumping heat from your autobox through extra coolers in front of the radiator, the mesh over the grill is asking for trouble.

Either relocate the autobox coolers or yes you may need to go to the Mercedes fan, if you choose the right one you will not need the PWM controller however, you only get one speed.

What amperage alternator do you have on yours John?

You may want to try a professional AC person, and not a 'supposedly' professional John. With the right gear i.e. dye, glasses ect any leak will show up. The problem is these professionals think if the system holds a vacuum, then it will hold pressure, which is complete rubbish. So they get a 'beep' from the AC rig and call it good, a bit like you getting a green traffic light and assuming it is safe to go, only to find someone jumping the red.

They do not pull the evaporator to check it is not blocked, look for porous pipes, noisey expansion valves......blah blah.

Regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Quick update, the second hand radiator cap stopped the problems of water moving back and forth between the expansion tank and radiator. The engine would come up to temperature and coolant correctly move into the expansion tank however, when the engine cooled it did not draw the coolant back into the radiator. I thought perhaps one of the new hose clips was a little loose, but nope, no joy there. So then to the rad cap, it really did look in good condition and was not that old.

So after success with my idea that the cap may be faulty, I can confirm that today I fitted a new 0.9 bar cap, so far so good.

Don't dismiss a relatively new component from your fault finding process.

Regards

Dave

 

[JOHN OF LONDON]

Yes I can see a progression of jobs before me, all of which are going to be difficult to test in winter!
First I think is to get the ac working as well as possible so that all the things that generate heat to be dissipated by the airflow are producing all they are likely to produce and then devise some way of simulating an outside temperature in the mid 30s to see if the heat can be controlled.
Oh, the alternator is either a 125 or 150 amps.
Cheers, John

 

[Dave 2000]

Hi John, my testing shows having the AC on adds at least 5°C to your cooling system. Also look at the slots in the bumper, they are for additional airflow. I bridged the gap between the bumper and radiator with rubber matting, anything you can do to direct air at the radiator helps.

The transmission coolers are easy enough to move given the nature of small bore pipework.

Moving the AC dryer is a good idea if you off road in areas where the front bumper may take a clout.

Regards

Dave

 

[JOHN OF LONDON]

Yes. I'll add stopping the air coming through the grill escaping without being heated up to the list of jobs.
Moving the oil coolers is simple enough. Finding somewhere to move them to that isn't in front of the radiator or exposed to is road damage is not so simple. Any ideas?
J