Mobil 1 - true synthetic or not???

[TN_LandCruiser]

I was reading on Fatwallet (http://www.fatwallet.com/t/18/742332/ today. Apparently Wal-Mart has Mobil 1 on sale for $19 for 5qt bottles. There was some discussion about whether or not Mobil 1 was still true synthetic... See excerpt below. Anyone have any proof one way or another???

Taken from Fatwallet.com________________________________________________

Just a friendly reminder: M1 is NO longer a TRUE - FULLY synthetic.

That doesn't make M1 inferior, just not the superior anymore. All, thanks to Castrol!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct, Mobil 1 used to be made primarily with a group IV base stock which is mandatory for any product to be called synthetic in any country except the US. In the US Group III base stock which is made from purified Pertoleum is all that is required to be called a Sythetic, which is what most Castrol Syntec oil is made from (German Made Syntec is the exception as it is made from GIV stock).

Group III base stocks are very good oils. Castrol GTX from 20 years ago used to be made with Group III base stock and it was the best performing "regular" oil available, but that changed when Syntec was introduced (same product and GTX used to be but different bottle)

Some True Group IV Sythetic oils are Redline (GIV and GV), Royal Purple, Amsoil, German Syntec and others

 

[cary]

This is a rumor that started over on BITOG that has been completely unsubstantiated. Unfortunately BITOG has become somewhat hostile as a lot of newcomers have come in, and like many websites, for lack of a better description the gene pool has become diluted.

For $19 per 5 quarts, I would be buying up that M1 at Walmart.

 

[pulse98]

You would have to go to the bobistheoilguy.com forum to confirm but from my research there, I recall they said that the only Group IV Mobil 1 is their "extended performence" line. The cheaper Mobil 1 lines are not Group IV.

 

[cary]

You would have to go to the bobistheoilguy.com forum to confirm but from my research there, I recall they said that the only Group IV Mobil 1 is their "extended performence" line. The cheaper Mobil 1 lines are not Group IV.

Again, pure speculation. The M1 0w-40 is absolutely a Group IV oil. We know this for two reasons 1) BMW LL-01 approval specifically requires a Group IV or Group V oil, and 2) no manufacture has yet produced a 0w-40 group III grade, likely because Group III oils don't have as good of low temp pour points as Group IV and Group V oils.

 

[Romer]

at wally world, the extended performance and SUV seem to be the cheaper Mobil 1 oils

 

[Bearcat80]

I just changed oil, got the new "High Mileage" 10W-30 Mobil 1 for $22.00 for 5 qts at walmart. I'm hoping this helps with the sieve that I call an engine.
1fz's do not like only being driven 3k per year and mine has seeps at all gaskets and hard valve stem seals. We'll see if it helps. I don't know enough to tell if it's a true synthetic or not, but if you tell me what to look for on the labels, I'll do that and report back.

 

[Ting]

I loaded tons of M1 from WM a few weeks ago with $19.

 

[tomatopants]

I heard synthetics leak more, and M1 has made it so I have 0 leaks and 0 consumption.



It's not oil, it's cement!

 

[dcFJ]

Synthetics don't cause leaks...poor maint. of an engine, bad seals, rings, etc...is what causes leaks when you switch to a synthetic. Because the viscosity of a synthetic is different from a dino stock, you'll notice where you have the leaks pretty quick. This is another misconception about synthetic oils that they "cause leaks". Just make sure all seals, gaskets, and working parts of your engine are in top shape before putting in a synthetic, and you can add it at any mileage; whether it's 200 miles or 200,000 miles.

 

[Jacques Villeneuve]

Found a local supplier of Red Line (one of the few who ar true synthetic manufacturers) and they actually stock the fully synthetic 15W40. That's the ticket from now on in warmer weather.

 

[cary]

Found a local supplier of Red Line (one of the few who ar true synthetic manufacturers) and they actually stock the fully synthetic 15W40. That's the ticket from now on in warmer weather.

1) Redline 15w-40 is their diesel oil.
2) Redline has not show itself to be a very good oil in street engines. It is using 20+ year old formulation tools. It has lots of moly and other additives that are great for race engines, especially if they lose their film lube.
3) Your going to be wasting a lot of money.

 

[Jacques Villeneuve]

1) Redline 15w-40 is their diesel oil.
2) Redline has not show itself to be a very good oil in street engines. It is using 20+ year old formulation tools. It has lots of moly and other additives that are great for race engines, especially if they lose their film lube.
3) Your going to be wasting a lot of money.

I know its a deisel oil. Don't deisel oils use more detergent than the "normal" oils ? Is that bad?

I like moly for mechanical parts. What the downside?

The cost was $8 a litre (1.0566882049662337925823552407165 US qts). I use 7.2 litres per change (w/filter). That's $56 for 8 litres. The oil I use now is Rotella B 5W40 synthetic that costs ~ $48 per oil change. Well, when you're a rich guy like me (yeah, right) what's a few extra bucks every three months?

 

[cary]

I know its a deisel oil. Don't deisel oils use more detergent than the "normal" oils ? Is that bad?

I like moly for mechanical parts. What the downside?

The cost was $8 a litre (1.0566882049662337925823552407165 US qts). I use 7.2 litres per change (w/filter). That's $56 for 8 litres. The oil I use now is Rotella B 5W40 synthetic that costs ~ $48 per oil change. Well, when you're a rich guy like me (yeah, right) what's a few extra bucks every three months?

It is likely that their diesel oil is harmful to your emissions equiptment. Remember this oil is not API rated for spark engines and (at least in the old days) Redline did not recommend it's use in gasoline engines.

From the used oil analysis I have seen of Redline oil on street driven autos, the results for the most part, have been less than impressive and far short of Mobil 1, Rotella, etc.. I am a big Redline fan, I have used their gear and tranny oils for going on 20 years. They are local to me and I get their oils for nearly the same price as Mobil 1. I do not use their engine oils for street use because of the poor UOA's I have seen with their oils. IF you are racing, it is different story.

 

[Darwood]

It is likely that their diesel oil is harmful to your emissions equiptment. Remember this oil is not API rated for spark engines and (at least in the old days) Redline did not recommend it's use in gasoline engines.

From the used oil analysis I have seen of Redline oil on street driven autos, the results for the most part, have been less than impressive and far short of Mobil 1, Rotella, etc.. I am a big Redline fan, I have used their gear and tranny oils for going on 20 years. They are local to me and I get their oils for nearly the same price as Mobil 1. I do not use their engine oils for street use because of the poor UOA's I have seen with their oils. IF you are racing, it is different story.

What about Mobil Delo. Isn't that also a Diesel oil, or is that a completely different story?

 

[cary]

What about Mobil Delo. Isn't that also a Diesel oil, or is that a completely different story?

Delo (Chevron Actually) is a fleet oil, it meets API compression engine and spark engine requirements. Here are the approvals for the latest version:

Select Performance Specifications
Chevron Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 meets:
• API Service Categories CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4,
CH-4, CF-4, CF, SM, SL

Applications
Chevron Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 is a mixed fleet motor oil recommended for all naturally aspirated and turbocharged four-stroke diesel engines and fourstroke gasoline engines in which the API CJ-4 grade and SAE 15W-40 viscosity grade are recommended. It is formulated for engines operating under severe service and a wide range of climatic conditions. Chevron Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 is excellent for use in new advanced engines developed in response to 2007 emissions standards and in engines equipped with features like four-valve heads, supercharging, turbo charging, direct injection, shorter piston crowns, higher power density, intercooling, full electronic management of fuel and emissions systems, exhaust gas recirculation, and exhaust particulate traps. It is formulated for superior performance with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel but also with both normal and low sulfur diesel fuels. This product is recommended for use in older engines, as well as in today's most modern low emission designs. This product is recommended for use in Caterpillar engines in off-highway or construction applications which require an API CJ-4 Service Category after January 1, 2007.

 

[cary]

BTW, here is what Redline says about their Diesel oil,

Red Line makes a 15W40 Diesel Engine Oil for
diesel engines. The diesel engine oils contain
significantly greater detergency and total base
number (TBN) which helps keep the engine clean.
This additional detergency is not recommended for
gasoline engines since it could increase the
tendency for spark plug fouling. Even though the
Red Line Motor Oils meet the specifications for
diesel engines, the Diesel Engine Oil should be
used where extended drains (10,000 miles +) are
required.

Interstingly, they say their diesel oil meets SL, but then is says right below that, "Diesel only"

 

[cruiserdan]

The M1 0w-40 is absolutely a Group IV oil. We know this for two reasons 1) BMW LL-01 approval specifically requires a Group IV or Group V oil, and 2) no manufacture has yet produced a 0w-40 group III grade, likely because Group III oils don't have as good of low temp pour points as Group IV and Group V oils.

Exactly why I switched to this oil.

The only problem with it is inside my head because I can't leave it in the crankcase longer than 3,000 miles....

 

[Jacques Villeneuve]

BTW, here is what Redline says about their Diesel oil,



Interstingly, they say their diesel oil meets SL, but then is says right below that, "Diesel only"

I saw that on the bottle in the store and the rest is hisotry.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I love this place - got my tech fix for the evening...

DougM

 

[FirstToy]

They way I understood it is-(I don't even pretend to be an oil student- Costco Chevron Supreme is fine for me- maybe the experts can decipher it all)

Mobil 1 is a Group III base w/ PAO's added. It is not a PAO base stock like true Group IV oils.
________________________________________
Lube news reported Chevron displaying Group II and III base stocks to qualify as GF-4 w/ additives (as a benefit to vendors -economic advantage)
----------------------------------------------

By using Chevron’s all-hydroprocessed Group II base oil you can produce GF-4 quality lubricants with a simple one step blending process. Because they are all-hydroprocessed, our base oils have:

higher purity
better oxidation stability
higher VI
lower CCS viscosity
lower volatility
Consequently, no correction fluid is needed to meet GF-4 specs! Your additive supplier knows how to take advantage of Chevron's high-quality base stocks.

Blending Comparison: Meeting GF-4 Specs and (proposed) SM Specs
__________________________________________________
I found this-but don't know if it's outdated-

ive been reading on other forums that mobil 1 is switching from group IV base oils to group III. for those of you who have no idea what this means...

Group II - Modern Conventional Base Oils

Base oils made by hydrocracking and isomerization technologies had such a signifigant increase in desirable performance over solvent refining technology that in 1993 the API categorized base oils by composition. Solvent refined oils are now referred to as group I base oils. Group II base oils are a vast improvement over group I because they contain lower levels of impurities. Because they are so pure, they have almost no color at all. Improved purity means the base oil and additives can last longer under use. The oil is more inert and forms less oxidation byproducts that can increase viscosity and react with additives.


Group III - Unconventional Base Oils

The API defines the difference between Group II and III base oils only in terms of V.I., viscosity index. Base oils with conventional V.I. (80-119) are Group II and base oils with an "unconventional" V.I. (120+) are Group III. Group III base oils are also called unconventional base oils (UCBO's) or very high V.I. (VHVI) base oils. Group II+ base oils have the same maximum V.I. as Group II (80-119), but have a higher minimum V.I. (110-119).

From a process standpoint, Group III oils are made by the same process as Group II oils, but the V.I. is increased by increasing the temperature of the hydrocracker. The product V.I. can also be increased by increasing the V.I. of the feedstock. Which is done by selecting the appropriate crude.


Group IV - Traditional "Synthetic" Base Oils (PAO)

"The word "synthetic" in the lube industry hase traditionaly been synonymous with PAO, poly-alfa-olefins, which are made from small molocules. The first commercial process for making PAO was pioneered by Gulf Oil in 1951. In the 1960's, Mobil patented an improved process. In the 1970's, Mobil began to market their product as 'Mobil 1'.

Since then, the demand for PAO has grown and some base oil manufactures began using higher V.I. feedstocks to make mineral oils with V.I.'s that matched the PAO's. These new Group III oils were not manufactured from small molecules like traditional synthetics but they bridged the performance gap at a lower cost. Some lubricant manufactures began replacing PAO's with Group III base oils in their "synthetic" engine oils. This created a controversy in the lubricants industry because some believed that PAO's were the only true synthetics.

The National Advertising Department of the Better Business Bureau ruled that Group III base oils can be considered "synthetic" because modern oils made using hydroisomerization technology have most of the same performance features of the early synthetics.
more info...
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=749606&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=14
so yeah bummer. id like to keep using pure synthetic and wondered what other group IV synths people have been using. so far im leaning towards elf.ive been reading on other forums that mobil 1 is switching from group IV base oils to group III. for those of you who have no idea what this means...

Group II - Modern Conventional Base Oils

Base oils made by hydrocracking and isomerization technologies had such a signifigant increase in desirable performance over solvent refining technology that in 1993 the API categorized base oils by composition. Solvent refined oils are now referred to as group I base oils. Group II base oils are a vast improvement over group I because they contain lower levels of impurities. Because they are so pure, they have almost no color at all. Improved purity means the base oil and additives can last longer under use. The oil is more inert and forms less oxidation byproducts that can increase viscosity and react with additives.


Group III - Unconventional Base Oils

The API defines the difference between Group II and III base oils only in terms of V.I., viscosity index. Base oils with conventional V.I. (80-119) are Group II and base oils with an "unconventional" V.I. (120+) are Group III. Group III base oils are also called unconventional base oils (UCBO's) or very high V.I. (VHVI) base oils. Group II+ base oils have the same maximum V.I. as Group II (80-119), but have a higher minimum V.I. (110-119).

From a process standpoint, Group III oils are made by the same process as Group II oils, but the V.I. is increased by increasing the temperature of the hydrocracker. The product V.I. can also be increased by increasing the V.I. of the feedstock. Which is done by selecting the appropriate crude.


Group IV - Traditional "Synthetic" Base Oils (PAO)

"The word "synthetic" in the lube industry hase traditionaly been synonymous with PAO, poly-alfa-olefins, which are made from small molocules. The first commercial process for making PAO was pioneered by Gulf Oil in 1951. In the 1960's, Mobil patented an improved process. In the 1970's, Mobil began to market their product as 'Mobil 1'.

Since then, the demand for PAO has grown and some base oil manufactures began using higher V.I. feedstocks to make mineral oils with V.I.'s that matched the PAO's. These new Group III oils were not manufactured from small molecules like traditional synthetics but they bridged the performance gap at a lower cost. Some lubricant manufactures began replacing PAO's with Group III base oils in their "synthetic" engine oils. This created a controversy in the lubricants industry because some believed that PAO's were the only true synthetics.

The National Advertising Department of the Better Business Bureau ruled that Group III base oils can be considered "synthetic" because modern oils made using hydroisomerization technology have most of the same performance features of the early synthetics.
more info...
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=749606&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=14
so yeah bummer. id like to keep using pure synthetic and wondered what other group IV synths people have been using. so far im leaning towards elf.

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