very true x1,000,000
Minimum Requirements for an expedition rig?
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very true x1,000,000
Thats why it cannot look like a mall cruiser.
Must have:
Be dirty
Some dents
Scratches
Faded paint
DIY fabbed booger weld bumpers
And the look of total redneck
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
This is something I have pointed out a number of times in this forum... Assuming you are traveling to and through less developed and less prosperous regions... Whether is is a fresh off the showroom LuxoSUV or a stickered up older rig, standing out is a bad idea in many many places. It could be as simple as offending the people in the places you are visiting with an obnoxious display of wealth by the local standards, or as serious as setting your self up as a target for robbery and theft.
Forget flashy wheels, stickers and all sorts of cool flashy crap festooning the vehicle. In fact cosmetic blemishes are a good thing in my mind. Old rusty wheels, mis-matched body panels, primer spots... a few minor dents.
Heck, even in a LOT of places in the US, you want to avoid attracting attention simply because of the easy target your setup is for thieves if left unattended in dar too many places.
Mark...
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Also, in some places where the law is about as crooked as it gets, you really don't want alot of flash, because they can acquire your rig.
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
Here are a couple of rather heavy duty "Expedition Rigs".
Cool setups. In some situations they would be just the ticket. In others they'd be completely out of place.
Mark...
Cool setups. In some situations they would be just the ticket. In others they'd be completely out of place.
Mark...
Sure his house is not in there somewhere?
I wonder about him trying to get spares in siberia or do recovery axle-deep 
Just getting me rig ready for when the kids can travel more easily, and understand the 'cultural context' of faraway places...
After talking to guys who traversed africa/sth america (IIRC their LC60/80 are stored in venzuela currently on round-the-world trip), and do beijing-london type of trip... here's some of what i distilled-
-Diesel LC from 90s preferred-it can run on sh*tty fuels/spare parts availability/lack of electronics/many mechanics are familiar with them/tough by nature/can limp home
-keep the 90s LC mechanically as stock/basic as possible (but..but .. i cant live w/o the turbo
)-Do bearings/seals/joints prior to 10,000km trips
-Barworks nice to hv, more for convenient jack points than animal strikes
-bucket seat are good
etc etc
Reliability & Fixability are tops it seems, after you acquire a PPROVEN 4X4
But then again, had a fren who went to/came back from tibet with an 80 with no 2nd gear
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
They might not have their houses in there, but they have to have more than a couple kitchen sinks!
I thought of finding another picture of a rig at the other end of the spectrum... but we have all seen stock, beater Cruisers and mini-trucks before.
Mark...
I thought of finding another picture of a rig at the other end of the spectrum... but we have all seen stock, beater Cruisers and mini-trucks before.
Mark...
... rig at the other end of the spectrum... but we have all seen stock, beater Cruisers and mini-trucks before.
Mark...
Yea... beater cruisers sure add colors to the trip
But then, my mafia is not likely to tag along 
Personally, ENJOYING the daily drive over say, 1 month with unpredictable trip conditions, is important... not only for the driver but the group's morale
A comfortable ride is my ticket
the word simply means different things to different people. Basically I assume you want to be self sufficient for some period of time, you want to have a vehcile that will transport yourself and whomever else in relative comfort, you want the vehicle to have certain capabilities, and you want to bring along enough resources to make all of that happen. Obvioulsy you want a dependable vehicle that is appropriate for the geography you encounter...etc...etc.
I went on a 9 month expedition one time....it involved a lot of sun and sand...and (first gulf war)...really the only "expedition" I've ever been on. I slept in a tent for about 8.5 months, sometimes in the back of my truck, I had all the water and MRE's I could eat and drink, I had an outhouse at times and then a shovel at times for a bathroom, I had an outhouse shower at times and then nothing at times. I had one hot meal a day for a while, and then MRE's forr the rest. Hard to get clean hard to stay clean, I had sand and dust in everything and everywhere, I had more flies than I thought would have ever existed. A simple hot or warmed up portion of food was a luxery at times, somethign to drink other than water was a luxery too, at times. I washed clothes in a bucket of water, We went days at times without seeing another animal or living creature (in the desert) we drove many ...many hours /days in the sand and where there was absolutly nothing in a 360 radius for miles and miles. Where you would certainly die if your vehicle became stranded and you ran out of water.
My obersvations on the expdition I describe....the capability of the vehicle is critical (we got stuck many times) but there were a lot of use together with various types of vehicles so we helped each other out. Large heavy vehicles suck in the desert (loose sand) and those with trailers do even worse. Hot food is great, options dealing with food and liquid are great. GPS is a great thing if you have it, otherwise best to know how to read a map. Communicaiton is great..of course military stuff is different that civilan but I would think somethign other than cell phone would be smart to have and know how to use (ham radio). Learn how to be self sufficient, carry spares, carry only what you need and look for clothes and other devices that could serve dual roles, know your supply points, ask the "locals" if there are any, don't go by yourself, know your vehicle and have common tools, know how to work / use all the devices tools before you leave, practice to make sure. travel light as possible, get organized, figure out good storage palces or build some, do some bain-storming well before you plan on leaving, ask those who have gone before for tips / advice.
Obviously you need food, water, the ability to prepare food, the ability to store water & fuel, resources relaed to camping, potentially a heat source, and understanding of field sanitation, understanding of land navigation, communication equipment, maps, clothing, maybe even the abilty to speak other languages, and an understanding of field hygene.
The best solution is the ability to live with the least amount of resources that you potentially can. Would probally be a good idea to do some practice runs to make sure all teh equipment functions as intended and you know how to setup everything in all weather conditions and even in total darkness.
I assume an expidition is something athat is longer than a week or two camping out. The people who are good at expiditons are probally the ones who can live with the least amount of luxery items.
There is no one solution to the vehicle question...all depends on where you plan to go and what you want to carry. I think a person who could tolerate to live pretty minimal probally could get buy in a 4wheel drive tacoma with a camper shell, all depends on how you want to live, how much you are willing to tolerate and what you consider is a good time. of course if you are going carry others with you...what are they willing to put up with and live without.
Military field units like the field artillery unit I was part off...carry their whole world in the vehciles... but we also had re-supply and probally could have lived self sufficient for a few weeks at the time given our resources on the vehcile at the time (way back in 90/91)... dealing with insects is also fun...appropriate headgear with an insect barrier is great depending on where you are. You can tolerate insects on your body etc...but really hard to deal with them flying around and biting you on the face. Water and liquids attract insects.
I think a FJ80 in good running condition would probally serve as a very capable expedition vehicle for most, because I suspect that most people will not be to far away from civilization for that long of a period. Select the right tires as appropriate, winch, bumpers, etc would be a plus, slidders, guards..
I went on a 9 month expedition one time....it involved a lot of sun and sand...and (first gulf war)...really the only "expedition" I've ever been on. I slept in a tent for about 8.5 months, sometimes in the back of my truck, I had all the water and MRE's I could eat and drink, I had an outhouse at times and then a shovel at times for a bathroom, I had an outhouse shower at times and then nothing at times. I had one hot meal a day for a while, and then MRE's forr the rest. Hard to get clean hard to stay clean, I had sand and dust in everything and everywhere, I had more flies than I thought would have ever existed. A simple hot or warmed up portion of food was a luxery at times, somethign to drink other than water was a luxery too, at times. I washed clothes in a bucket of water, We went days at times without seeing another animal or living creature (in the desert) we drove many ...many hours /days in the sand and where there was absolutly nothing in a 360 radius for miles and miles. Where you would certainly die if your vehicle became stranded and you ran out of water.
My obersvations on the expdition I describe....the capability of the vehicle is critical (we got stuck many times) but there were a lot of use together with various types of vehicles so we helped each other out. Large heavy vehicles suck in the desert (loose sand) and those with trailers do even worse. Hot food is great, options dealing with food and liquid are great. GPS is a great thing if you have it, otherwise best to know how to read a map. Communicaiton is great..of course military stuff is different that civilan but I would think somethign other than cell phone would be smart to have and know how to use (ham radio). Learn how to be self sufficient, carry spares, carry only what you need and look for clothes and other devices that could serve dual roles, know your supply points, ask the "locals" if there are any, don't go by yourself, know your vehicle and have common tools, know how to work / use all the devices tools before you leave, practice to make sure. travel light as possible, get organized, figure out good storage palces or build some, do some bain-storming well before you plan on leaving, ask those who have gone before for tips / advice.
Obviously you need food, water, the ability to prepare food, the ability to store water & fuel, resources relaed to camping, potentially a heat source, and understanding of field sanitation, understanding of land navigation, communication equipment, maps, clothing, maybe even the abilty to speak other languages, and an understanding of field hygene.
The best solution is the ability to live with the least amount of resources that you potentially can. Would probally be a good idea to do some practice runs to make sure all teh equipment functions as intended and you know how to setup everything in all weather conditions and even in total darkness.
I assume an expidition is something athat is longer than a week or two camping out. The people who are good at expiditons are probally the ones who can live with the least amount of luxery items.
There is no one solution to the vehicle question...all depends on where you plan to go and what you want to carry. I think a person who could tolerate to live pretty minimal probally could get buy in a 4wheel drive tacoma with a camper shell, all depends on how you want to live, how much you are willing to tolerate and what you consider is a good time. of course if you are going carry others with you...what are they willing to put up with and live without.
Military field units like the field artillery unit I was part off...carry their whole world in the vehciles... but we also had re-supply and probally could have lived self sufficient for a few weeks at the time given our resources on the vehcile at the time (way back in 90/91)... dealing with insects is also fun...appropriate headgear with an insect barrier is great depending on where you are. You can tolerate insects on your body etc...but really hard to deal with them flying around and biting you on the face. Water and liquids attract insects.
I think a FJ80 in good running condition would probally serve as a very capable expedition vehicle for most, because I suspect that most people will not be to far away from civilization for that long of a period. Select the right tires as appropriate, winch, bumpers, etc would be a plus, slidders, guards..
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Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
^ read this a couple of times.
Mark...
Mark...
^ read this a couple of times.
Mark...
X20000
Best yet!
Thanks Elbert for your service and a fine post
.
This is gonna sound way cooler than it actually is, but I spend about half my time living with a tribe in a remote region in namibia. Getting there takes about 500 miles of road, 100 miles of dirt/gravel, then 20-100 miles of 'none of the above'. I needed a truck that'd haul enough food, water, and gear for 4 folks for a week or more. Comfort would be nice, but the terrain and climate are pretty awful - think southern Nevada in summer. My thought was to be able to call for rescue but better to be able to save myself.
Lucky for me I found a nice 96 turbo diesel FJ80. Perfect field truck - tough as tree roots, just big enough, and comfortable to boot. I added a few things but basically left most of it stock. Needed a roof rack (lots of gear), upgraded the suspension (OME heavy), added a bull bar and winch, and a snorkel. I've only needed the last once or twice for water crossings but they made me glad I got it.
So lessons learned. I'll leave off the usual extra belts and hoses - I learned most of that here, reading this forum. I'll also forgo the usual survival stuff, although I will say I'm never without a cheap bic lighter and a good pocket knife.
Tires - Goodrich MT's are awesome, very few flats. Bit rough on the road but it's those last few miles off road that really matter. I started with a set of Geolanders and had over 2 dozen flats, switched and basically had none. This reduced the number of spares I carry on the roof from 4 to 1.
Communications. First line of defense. I always have 2 sat phones with me and they've saved me and a few others. I always have a person or two I can call in extremus, although thankfully that hasn't happened all that often.
Jacks. Plural - I carry 3. In my time I've rescued (and once been rescued) with a problem jack. Not helpful, especially in areas with cats and elephants about. Now I carry several, including a hi-lift bolted to the roof rack.
Tire Irons. Again plural. I've never had one fail on me but a misplaced iron can land you in a world of trouble. I once rescued an australian guy who was staying at a remote luxury safari camp (at 1000 bucks a night) and had decided to book a day trip that lasted two days. Idiots got a flat but had no tire iron, also no radio and little food and water. It was amazing that they managed to find anybody out that way but I just happened to be in the area visiting a particularly remote village when their driver walked in from a region that even my guys call 'harsh'. Lesson learned - bought 2 more irons next time I was in for resupply.
Food. Beyond the obvious, containers inside containers. When the bugs get in (and they will) best if the don't foul all your food at once. I also carry a very spiffy freezer which greatly expands the range of food I can carry into the field. I'm a big believer in eating well - between the shots I got, the doxy I take to ward off malaria (which is a broad-spectrum antibiotic that kills lots of things), and decent grub, I've never had so much as a sniffle. I also brought with me (at some expense) american tents and camping gear - the ones available in africa generally suck. Sleep well, eat well - best way to stay healthy in the bush.
Water. I carry an array of filters and things that turn any water into drinking water. My favorite: a miox pen. I have several, one of which lives in my truck for emergencies. I treat all my water, even stuff I'm reasonably sure is okay (like borehole water). Hauling water is a pain but I've come to see the wisdom of using many smaller containers (like 25l size) rather than a few larger ones. They're easy to keep clean and if one starts leaking, you don't lose a majority of your water. Did I mention that the nearest town is 100 miles away, over the worst roads on earth? When I'm there, my thoughts often dwell on water. You can live a goodly while if the food runs out but a couple of days with no water and you'll drink anything. Be prepared.
Also, if you're not in the truck, keep your doors and windows closed. I learned this when a desert mouse got into my truck one night - didn't even know he was there except that he kept setting off the alarm inside when we locked it up. Took a while to find him but it we kept at it - nibbled wires would not do. Friend of mine got a sterner lesson - he and a truck-full of buddies were zipping along at 80 when one of them spotted a stowaway peeping out from under the dash. It was a 6 foot green mamba that'd apparently gotten in through an open window (people often park under trees to shade the car, and leave windows cracked). Mambas are bad - get bit and you've probably just enough time to call your wife and say goodbye. In this case everybody lived (the snake did not) but my friend learned his lesson.
Oh and, like Elbert, I always have maps. I speak the local, know where the water holes are (seasonal and permanent), have several gps', and I'm known in those parts so I can count on help. But I always carry paper maps just in case.
Two things you might not think of. First, I have a marker in my truck in case I need to leave a note and I want to make sure it gets read. Write it on the inside of the driver's window, it'll be seen. Second, moist toilet paper in a ziplock bag. It's light, doesn't fall apart if it gets rained on, and can be used to wipe your hands and face. Get the unscented kind if you don't want to smell like a baby's ass, which is often very interesting to bugs.
Two last words: duct tape.
Lucky for me I found a nice 96 turbo diesel FJ80. Perfect field truck - tough as tree roots, just big enough, and comfortable to boot. I added a few things but basically left most of it stock. Needed a roof rack (lots of gear), upgraded the suspension (OME heavy), added a bull bar and winch, and a snorkel. I've only needed the last once or twice for water crossings but they made me glad I got it.
So lessons learned. I'll leave off the usual extra belts and hoses - I learned most of that here, reading this forum. I'll also forgo the usual survival stuff, although I will say I'm never without a cheap bic lighter and a good pocket knife.
Tires - Goodrich MT's are awesome, very few flats. Bit rough on the road but it's those last few miles off road that really matter. I started with a set of Geolanders and had over 2 dozen flats, switched and basically had none. This reduced the number of spares I carry on the roof from 4 to 1.
Communications. First line of defense. I always have 2 sat phones with me and they've saved me and a few others. I always have a person or two I can call in extremus, although thankfully that hasn't happened all that often.
Jacks. Plural - I carry 3. In my time I've rescued (and once been rescued) with a problem jack. Not helpful, especially in areas with cats and elephants about. Now I carry several, including a hi-lift bolted to the roof rack.
Tire Irons. Again plural. I've never had one fail on me but a misplaced iron can land you in a world of trouble. I once rescued an australian guy who was staying at a remote luxury safari camp (at 1000 bucks a night) and had decided to book a day trip that lasted two days. Idiots got a flat but had no tire iron, also no radio and little food and water. It was amazing that they managed to find anybody out that way but I just happened to be in the area visiting a particularly remote village when their driver walked in from a region that even my guys call 'harsh'. Lesson learned - bought 2 more irons next time I was in for resupply.
Food. Beyond the obvious, containers inside containers. When the bugs get in (and they will) best if the don't foul all your food at once. I also carry a very spiffy freezer which greatly expands the range of food I can carry into the field. I'm a big believer in eating well - between the shots I got, the doxy I take to ward off malaria (which is a broad-spectrum antibiotic that kills lots of things), and decent grub, I've never had so much as a sniffle. I also brought with me (at some expense) american tents and camping gear - the ones available in africa generally suck. Sleep well, eat well - best way to stay healthy in the bush.
Water. I carry an array of filters and things that turn any water into drinking water. My favorite: a miox pen. I have several, one of which lives in my truck for emergencies. I treat all my water, even stuff I'm reasonably sure is okay (like borehole water). Hauling water is a pain but I've come to see the wisdom of using many smaller containers (like 25l size) rather than a few larger ones. They're easy to keep clean and if one starts leaking, you don't lose a majority of your water. Did I mention that the nearest town is 100 miles away, over the worst roads on earth? When I'm there, my thoughts often dwell on water. You can live a goodly while if the food runs out but a couple of days with no water and you'll drink anything. Be prepared.
Also, if you're not in the truck, keep your doors and windows closed. I learned this when a desert mouse got into my truck one night - didn't even know he was there except that he kept setting off the alarm inside when we locked it up. Took a while to find him but it we kept at it - nibbled wires would not do. Friend of mine got a sterner lesson - he and a truck-full of buddies were zipping along at 80 when one of them spotted a stowaway peeping out from under the dash. It was a 6 foot green mamba that'd apparently gotten in through an open window (people often park under trees to shade the car, and leave windows cracked). Mambas are bad - get bit and you've probably just enough time to call your wife and say goodbye. In this case everybody lived (the snake did not) but my friend learned his lesson.
Oh and, like Elbert, I always have maps. I speak the local, know where the water holes are (seasonal and permanent), have several gps', and I'm known in those parts so I can count on help. But I always carry paper maps just in case.
Two things you might not think of. First, I have a marker in my truck in case I need to leave a note and I want to make sure it gets read. Write it on the inside of the driver's window, it'll be seen. Second, moist toilet paper in a ziplock bag. It's light, doesn't fall apart if it gets rained on, and can be used to wipe your hands and face. Get the unscented kind if you don't want to smell like a baby's ass, which is often very interesting to bugs.
Two last words: duct tape.
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
Steve, thanks for your input This is the sort of posts we need to see in these types of threads!
A lot of what you said above is basic common sense for you I am sure once you have spent time dealing with the sort of situations that come up routinely in these type of out of the way places. But a lot of it is easily overlooked when it is a coming adventure you are looking at, rather than every day work and existence.
Mark...
A lot of what you said above is basic common sense for you I am sure once you have spent time dealing with the sort of situations that come up routinely in these type of out of the way places. But a lot of it is easily overlooked when it is a coming adventure you are looking at, rather than every day work and existence.
Mark...
I would suggest heading over to Expedition Portal to really learn more.... Any one that has read this thread get that an expedition means different things to everyone. Some people do round the world trips on a bicycle, others on motorcycle....all the way up to MAN vehicles..... And call them expeditions... others on here would argue it is just a really long road trip.
Scott Brady who is founder of the Expo Portal completed a pretty good adventure/expedition depending on how you look at it when he participated in the Mongol Rally last year. You can read about the vehicle he chose and why here:
The Great Roadway Bazaar - Expedition Portal Forum
No one answer is right. Do what is right for you.
For me, I started by taking my stock cruiser out and when something didnt work the way I wanted.... I made a mod. I needed just a little more ground clearance, So I got a lift and bigger tires. As I started getting more and more remote, I wanted a winch, so I got a front ARB and winch. When I started running trails with greater risk of body damage, I got sliders. When planning a trip through remote Baja, I knew I wanted a fridge. On that trip I learned I really needed to get rid of the fat factory rear bumper and add a way to carry gas on the outside vs. inside the rig. But, before i did all that, I just had a factory rig and recovery gear (straps, tire patch kit, shackles, etc.).
A lot of people tell me I need lockers.... Why? My rig takes me everywhere I want to go. When it stops doing that..... well, I might get lockers if that fixes the problem.
The mud is great for technical information and the main reasons I come here. But, when the subject of "expedition" comes up, I often find some form of hostility on the subject. It is a shame.
Scott Brady who is founder of the Expo Portal completed a pretty good adventure/expedition depending on how you look at it when he participated in the Mongol Rally last year. You can read about the vehicle he chose and why here:
The Great Roadway Bazaar - Expedition Portal Forum
No one answer is right. Do what is right for you.
For me, I started by taking my stock cruiser out and when something didnt work the way I wanted.... I made a mod. I needed just a little more ground clearance, So I got a lift and bigger tires. As I started getting more and more remote, I wanted a winch, so I got a front ARB and winch. When I started running trails with greater risk of body damage, I got sliders. When planning a trip through remote Baja, I knew I wanted a fridge. On that trip I learned I really needed to get rid of the fat factory rear bumper and add a way to carry gas on the outside vs. inside the rig. But, before i did all that, I just had a factory rig and recovery gear (straps, tire patch kit, shackles, etc.).
A lot of people tell me I need lockers.... Why? My rig takes me everywhere I want to go. When it stops doing that..... well, I might get lockers if that fixes the problem.
The mud is great for technical information and the main reasons I come here. But, when the subject of "expedition" comes up, I often find some form of hostility on the subject. It is a shame.
excellent posts. A little shaky at first but they came around and there is some great information. I'm on a search and rescue team in Western Colorado and I've now lost count as to how many times we've had to go help some Denver'ite in their stock Rubicon get unstuck in the high country in the spring or fall. Its the classic "well the weather was nice in Denver (5k elev) and so we figured it would be nice to load up the whole family and "4wheel" out and around Blaire Mountain (10K elev). No water, no food, dressed for summer at 10K feet, walking around in sandals, etc... a pretty extreme example, but point being; know the terrain (and respective climate) you're going to be traveling as best as you can....and if you can't get info on it, plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Oh ya, and a gun or two is always nice to have. Be it for personal protection or possibly getting some dinner if things get really bad or even simply as a signal. Of course, again, knowing where you will be and where its legal to carry a firearm or not could be a big issue. I personally would opt for the Barrett M107...small, easily concealable, light, relatively inexpensive, wouldn't draw attention, quiet,...a very practical trail/expedition/adventure/camping firearm.
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Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
I am not sure how highly I rate the need for a firearm as a part of "expedition" gear. Nothing against them... I carry a handgun every day and I am never in the field without a gun or two. But there is a difference between going out here in the back country of Alaska and traveling across borders to different countries. A gun will buy you more legal trouble than you want to think about in many countries. Heck there are a lot of states in the US that pile the paperwork and regulations on you over firearms if you want to take a gun with you while road tripping.
The odds of needing a gun to procure food are pretty long unless things have gone pretty bad for you in more than one way.
In terms of needing one for self defense... I would rather spend a few years in a Mexican prison than be dead I guess... But I think I would prefer even more to plan and work really hard to avoid putting myself in a situation that has the potential to deteriorate to where using a firearm in another country is my only option.
Mark...
The odds of needing a gun to procure food are pretty long unless things have gone pretty bad for you in more than one way.
In terms of needing one for self defense... I would rather spend a few years in a Mexican prison than be dead I guess... But I think I would prefer even more to plan and work really hard to avoid putting myself in a situation that has the potential to deteriorate to where using a firearm in another country is my only option.
Mark...
I'm really glad you pointed this out... I was kind of thinking I might be the only person who felt that way. I very rarely wash my truck because I don't mind it looking older or dirty.... a lot of times I'm in places where I don't want to attract attention; whether in the back country or even some places near where I live and work
let's not discount those of us who need to have a metaphorical 'escape' in our hum-drum lives.
my truck runs better since i cut down the mudflap length and got rid of the back jump seats which i would never have used. the dynamat i put on the back cab wall has greatly enhanced my driving pleasure.
everyone is at a different point in their lives, and a little tolerance can go a long way towards making discussion enjoyable .
