Minimum Requirements for an expedition rig? (8 Viewers)

[80t0ylc]

I won't get into the BS of the "most people will never..." argument. In the end, people build what they want for the trips they want to take. Your answer to the question may be totally different than mine based on destination and needs. My answer to the question might make a desert rat chuckle but make perfect sense to anyone from British Columbia. All of us will have a different answer than those freaks in Iceland who build incredible machines.

For me, my 4Runner will be 'ready' when I can get myself unstuck, when I can call for help where I have no cell coverage... and be heard, when I can sleep comfortably in most (if not all) weather conditions, and when I can store enough food and water to keep my wife and I alive for 3 weeks without restocking. After those requirements are satisfied, I will move on to increasing the base capability of the truck to allow us to travel farther afield than my current 9.6" of ground clearance will allow, increasing the fording depth, and increasing the overall range. As it stands now, my truck is not "ready" for more than forest roads and primitive camping.

Sadly, the people who have the most experience to share on this topic have instead decided to posture and lecture and belittle people who are asking an honest question. We all start off knowing nothing and learning what we can from experience and from others. Mostly what I have learned on this thread is people are still jerks no matter where they live or what they do for a living, that I'll get better information and responses on Expedition Portal, and that forum regulars ironically stroke their e-peen while complaining about web wheelers and posers... stroking their own e-peen.

I'm so glad I joined IH8MUD

Interesting post, & welcome to MUD! Not all of us are worshipers of the "experienced" posters on this forum. Please don't be turned off by the direction this thread has gone. There is good and valuable information here. Common sense can take you a long way and help keep you out of trouble. Glean what you can, and sound off if you think you can help some one. That's the true spirit of this forum, IMHO.

 

[Mark W]

I don't think I have seen anyone joining in on this thread how has shown us that they Have a lot of expedition experience. Very few (here or anywhere else) really do. Most of us live in North America ans spend our travel times on the best road system in the world. Even in the more spread out western stares, even in western Canada and Alaska, there are not really opportunities for "expedition travel"

There are few situations in North America where you are really gonna be out reach of modern American support for very long or all that far from it when you are. Very few places where modern American society and assistance is not available one way or the other. And when you do find yourself in those situations it will be because you have purposely sought out the most remote spots. If you are spending months driving around NA... you are road tripping no matter what you want to call it. Fast food and landramats, dealerships and parts stores, expressways and Walmarts. Road trip.

If you spend a week our two in the back country of AK or AZ, BC or UT..... it may be an exciting and satisfying outing... most of us work hard to make those runs happen when we can. But a week or two of off road fun does not really qualify as an expedition either.

The OP asked peoples opinions as to what the minimum requirement was for an "Expedition Rig". Did not seem to be looking for assistance, but rather just discussing. So we have discussed.

First you have to define what an expedition really is... and secondly what YOUR expedition is gonna be. Terr Del Fuego and back? (Seen it Done in stock beater '60s BTW). Trans Siberia? Perhaps some time in the orient and on over to India? Some time in Africa from the Sahara south would be fantastic too.

These all have different needs and requirements.

If you are going to dilute "Expedition" to include summer vacation road trips in North America, then the discussion of what the minimum needs are becomes meaningless.

If it gets you bent and you feel the need to get snarky because you hopped to see more Rah-Rah Wow We Are All So Cool in the discussion... You are welcome to not participate. You can take your three posts and unjoin Mud if it really bothers you.


Personally I am still waiting to see if there is anyone who DOES have experience at long term long distance travel in remote regions or less developed countries who will join in and offer some input based on these experiences.


Mark...

 

[SeattleMike]

If it gets you bent and you feel the need to get snarky because you hopped to see more Rah-Rah Wow We Are All So Cool in the discussion... You are welcome to not participate. You can take your three posts and unjoin Mud if it really bothers you.

What gets me bent is that you obviously have extensive experience driving across open ground and challenging terrain and yet you choose to quibble over semantics in a fashion that is intended to impress some people with your superior knowledge and intimidate others with your condescending attitude. I'm not looking for self-aggrandizement or cheerleeading, but rather helpful information from people who venture places that haven't seen a road grader. What you've provided is little more than snark and a thinly veiled implication that the OP is an idiot for even broaching the discussion, much less deigning to identify his truck as an "expedition rig" and yet you have the gall to resent it when someone calls you a snob.

As tempting as it is to accept your invitation to leave, I'll counter it with an invitation of my own: you've got over 5000 posts here, 6 years invested on these forums... maybe you could be a little more helpful to people? Or just ignore the threads that don't meet your idea of worthiness. Your attitude certainly isn't doing your reputation any good and it's definitely cost you a potential customer.

 

[Mark W]

I dunno, let the dreamers have their toys. 90% of "expedition" rigs online will never see anything tougher than a gravel road, fact; however, I won't be the one to tell them otherwise.

Just like how my friends think buying a CRV means they can go "offroad"; I don't want to break it to them that softroaders like that will get stuck on a rutted lane, because I know they really won't use it for anything that would even approach offroad, and they can safely have their dreams with impunity.

As to the argument that people will think thier barbie jeep can take them on an "expedition" through death valley, and end up dying from it - I like to think it was inevitable. As Ebenezer Scrooge once said, it would "decrease the surplus population". Let the idiots kill themselves off.

I can understand leaving the posuers and the nevergonnabes alone to enjoy themselves. I have a couple of guys I have known for years who fall into that class. No reason to not let them enjoy their Expedition RIG that they wear out serving as a city/highway commuter Subaru substitute.

I just expected that *most* folks on mud would rather weed that out and would be able to look at things realistically. I would love to see some discussion here of really using Cruisers for some long term trips in out of the way places.


Let's start it by looking at what an ideal starting platform would be. Don't lock yourself into a Land Cruiser platform either.

Then look at what sort of mods or improvements you would make to the vehicle. Not what you would haul with you. Deal with that later. Just the vehicle first.


Mark...

 

[stainless 40/45]

I dont know Mark but I have to agree.. He has most definitely not missed the nail.... But first you have to get some stickers and paint your rig white and get khacky colored cloth,and a really good knife. And then you need a refrigerator.......and a slide out so it will run.. And then you have to head south and of course north... and you have to eat tacos....Then and only then you have an expo rig.....what ever the fxxx that is.......

 

[Mark W]

What gets me bent is that you obviously have extensive experience driving across open ground and challenging terrain and yet you choose to quibble over semantics in a fashion that is intended to impress some people with your superior knowledge and intimidate others with your condescending attitude. I'm not looking for self-aggrandizement or cheerleeading, but rather helpful information from people who venture places that haven't seen a road grader. What you've provided is little more than snark and a thinly veiled implication that the OP is an idiot for even broaching the discussion, much less deigning to identify his truck as an "expedition rig" and yet you have the gall to resent it when someone calls you a snob.

As tempting as it is to accept your invitation to leave, I'll counter it with an invitation of my own: you've got over 5000 posts here, 6 years invested on these forums... maybe you could be a little more helpful to people? Or just ignore the threads that don't meet your idea of worthiness. Your attitude certainly isn't doing your reputation any good and it's definitely cost you a potential customer.

You've read a lot into things that simply is not here. Particularly reaching to see that I aimed anything at all at the OP.

If I have something negative to say to or about someone it will be clear to all that I am doing so.

But it really does not matter to me what you happen to think of me. I don't spend my time here to impress anyone or to turn anyone into a customer somehow. I learn a bit here and I share a bit as well. I "help" people every day here. And I take tidbits away myself. But I don't care to waste time with internet bickering with people I don't know and will never meet.

Feel free to use the ignore button. I have found it very useful for the 2 or three people here over the last few years I have run into who just aren't worth dealing with.


Mark...

 

[Black Op]

FWIW, I have not taken offense to anything posted in this post nor would I. We are all adults here (for the most part). If you don't like something simply just don't participate. I have my opinions like everyone else and just because you don't agree with someone does not mean you can't have a quality conversation and learn something. I asked the original ? hoping that I would have some folks with real world experience "chime" in. Mark W has that experience and I value his opinion along with everyone else not to say, just because someone says it that I believe it (no disrespect). I am from the school of ask and then try for yourself and make sure it works. Now if we could get back on track with the question at hand.

Carry on......

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Expedition Rig Requirements 1 of 4 parts


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[Jan-78FJ40]

I kinda resent being called a snob because I don't get excited about the current fad of people ... road tripping still.


Mark...

Funny, that is all~

Mark I'll see you again one day

I should have added a smiley...I am taking this clearly much, much less serious than you...

I am sure you'll do just perfectly road tripping in Baja with your rigs...

cheers,
J

 

[Jrob80]

Over the river and through the woods to grandma's?

 

[TEPUI]

Five years ago I met a guy who bought a 1995 Hilux, put new street tires on it, threw 2 Jerry cans on the back and drove from Venezuela to Patagonia and back with zero issues.

 

[Black Op]

Expedition Rig Requirements 1 of 4 parts


.

Now thats effin funny

 

[John McVicker]

Now thats effin funny

Way funny. And fits with what this thread has bogged into.

John

 

[Mark W]

Five years ago I met a guy who bought a 1995 Hilux, put new street tires on it, threw 2 Jerry cans on the back and drove from Venezuela to Patagonia and back with zero issues.

A few folks here have seen me mention a guy I know who took off from Talkeetna Alaska in a bone stock 1983 beater of an FJ60. One of the rear quarter panels had been hit by a snow plow and peeled open like a can opener had gotten hold of it. No mods, no upgrades and probably not nearly enough maintenance.

One day he loaded up and headed to Tierra Del Fuego (well, as close as he could get on the mainland anyway). Made it there and headed back. I never got a chance to really talk to him about it, but from what I heard the vehicle served him just fine.


Not sure I could be that spur of the moment myself. I've done plenty of week/two week/three+ week runs from Alaska down to parts of the US, But I usually spend a bit of time and effort prepping and making sure I've got what I need and that my rig is gone over some.
One such run many many years ago in a moderately built FJ55 with my wife and three kids was a bit of an adventure, with repairs done sititing in the middle of deserted roads, roof rack mounts failing under too much load and coasting down highway downgrades to conserve fuel after encountering gas stations who had dry tanks due to late deliveries. It was an adventure and I learned a bit from it (and a LOT since then). But I'll pass on repeating it.


Mark...

 

[80t0ylc]

Well, since the OP is still looking for inputs on opinions, thought I might contribute. His question originally was:

“Minimum Requirements for an expedition rig?”

If we can keep it as simple as possible, the answer should be focused on the rig and operator, (as was previously mentioned) and not the gear or equipment that is taken along and really has nothing to do with the length of the trip or expedition.

So I think that the answer is very simple and has been hinted at, but not really focused on. I think that the plain & simple truth is that the first minimum requirement be - this rig needs to be in the best mechanical condition possible. I think that this is foremost because whatever the journey that is taken, the rig will be relied upon to function normally with as few problems as possible. Whatever rig is chosen for the task, it will be challenged frequently and breakdowns can happen anytime and anywhere and can be inconvenient at best and dangerous at worst. Any doubts in this area must be addressed before the journey, not during it.

For example, my ’94 FZJ 80 has great potential, but it needs some serious PM and work before I would dare take an extended trip, especially in remote territory. It has 235K miles on it and needs a new radiator. The one on it works, but has some leakage around the top tank seam and has a fair amount of sediment built up from the years. The axles have not been gone through completely since I’ve owned it. The engine needs some TLC – plugs and wires and the valves adjusted. These are just some of the glaringly obvious concerns.

One might say, well, hey – how about a brand new rig? It would be in its best condition possible. Well, maybe yes, but probably not. Which leads to my second & third minimum requirements: I think that it’s extremely important that you are intimately familiar with the rig. Knowledge of its strengths and weaknesses and how to repair it and, as an additional plus, how to operate it so you can avoid some pitfalls that may surface. So, with this in mind, a new rig would take time to become familiar with. You would be distracted with the break-in schedule and possibly a guinea pig finding out its weaknesses.

The beauty of owning a rig and becoming familiar with it on a DD basis or as a weekend warrior, at least, is that you will have determined the maintenance schedule and be able to modify it if necessary for heavy duty usage on a trip. This gives you invaluable input later on to determine what kind and how much fluids to bring along, depending on trip length, environments you expect to encounter and availability of supplies.

So having a sound rig plus being extremely familiar with it, having the ability to repair or modify it in any foreseeable circumstance and the skill to operate it in any terrain would lay a firm foundation for success in getting from point A to B. The more confident you are in this area, the more you will be able to enjoy the journey of your dreams. Again, this is purely personal opinion with only "road trip experience" and some minor off road excursions speaking.

 

[Mark W]

Another friend lost track over the years how many times he had made the run back and forth from Colorado to Alaska in his FJ40. Somewhere over 25 he figures. That is about twice as many as I have made. His preps for these runs seem to have seldom exceeded tossing a tool box, cooler, gas cans and some clothes in the back and taking off.


Anyway... "expedition rigs" are all about compromise. all about choices and balancing. so... consider a few areas of balance to consider when choosing the vehicle to start with:

comfort of the vehicle
cost of the vehicle
economy of operation
fuel economy
performance (power)
performance (overall) on the road
performance (overall) offroad
cost and availability of parts and modification
cost and availability of parts and repairs in any areas you will be using the rig
your ability to repair the vehicle in the field or in an area of minimal support
the expected ability to find repair services for those things you can not handle yourself
range
carrying capacity (cargo and people)
comfort again.
simplicity
accessibility of your gear (do you want a wagon or a truck... do you want to pull a trailer).
Durability (just how heavy duty is it, does it need to be... what conditions will ti be subjected to)
"Recoverability"... A duece and a half will get through places a Vanagon won't, but it will be a lot tougher to winch out of a sloppy mud pit if need be


I am sure there are other factors I am overlooking as I toss this out... Probably some very basic and self evident... feel free to add some.

When you consider these things you HAVE to consider them in light of where and how you will actually use the rig and what it needs to do for you. (Be honest here)


This is all just to decide what rig serves you best. Once you do that, then you need to look at modifications and upgrades and balance them all as well... THEN you look at gear that you consider part of the rig's manifest rather than your personal gear and stuff you just take along.


Mark...

 

[Black Op]

Great value in these last two posts thanks Mark & 80toylc.

 

[kidglove13]

Great value in these last two posts thanks Mark & 80toylc.

X2

It ultimately comes down to what are you going to do with the vehicle and how do you want it to perform for your use.

 

[Combat Chuck]

expo rigs are useless without soft-serve machines.

 

[BC40]

I've never been on an expedition either, but I have done a lot of roadtrips/camping/hunting/fishing. Another thing I'd suggest to consider beyond what was said that ties to the what you plan to do/where you plan to go. Consider how comfortable you feel parking the truck somewhere and leaving it unattended for several hours while being a tourist or whatever. Not a happy trip if you can't even go for a short walk without feeling anxious that your 'expedition' bling or big new tires or winch are going to make your truck stand out as a target of theft. Some of this is avoidable, so keep it in mind as you plan what your ideal vehicle would look like.