Mechanic Fixed Head Gasket, At Completion Tells Me I May Require Engine Rebuild (14 Viewers)

[COYS]

This 80 was handled by Japanese Auto Service in CO. Really nice owner(s) I exchanged DMs with on ig.

Gl!

 

[80 Life]

Took it to a new mechanic today who specializes in motors and has worked on plenty of 80’s.
His quick diagnosis was a broken valve spring causing a misfire.
He says the noise is up high, not a rod knock. Found pressure in cylinder 1 at 65 and dropping. Cylinder 2 is good at 120.
This was a favor to diagnose this on a Sunday for free. The mechanic also had another master mechanic motor specialist buddy there, so we had some good brain power behind it.
He will try to work me into his schedule this week even though he is a couple months booked out. He’s also going to give the original mechanic a call to see if he’s capable of doing this fix and making it right, but I am hesitant to bring it back there as you could imagine.
This new mechanic want to hook a compressor up to cylinder 1 at 125 psi, keeping the valve shut and making the springs accessible for replacement.
Any thoughts?

 

[bj70bc]

just stick with the new guy
sounds like proper diagnosis is happening

 

[aztoyman]

Pressurizing the cylinder holds the valves shut so you can change springs without pulling the head.

 

[landtank]

A valve retainer might have slipped out from not being seated properly during head work.

 

[BILT4ME]

Took it to a new mechanic today who specializes in motors and has worked on plenty of 80’s.
His quick diagnosis was a broken valve spring causing a misfire.
He says the noise is up high, not a rod knock. Found pressure in cylinder 1 at 65 and dropping. Cylinder 2 is good at 120.
This was a favor to diagnose this on a Sunday for free. The mechanic also had another master mechanic motor specialist buddy there, so we had some good brain power behind it.
He will try to work me into his schedule this week even though he is a couple months booked out. He’s also going to give the original mechanic a call to see if he’s capable of doing this fix and making it right, but I am hesitant to bring it back there as you could imagine.
This new mechanic want to hook a compressor up to cylinder 1 at 125 psi, keeping the valve shut and making the springs accessible for replacement.
Any thoughts?

Sticky place.

Original Mechanic (OM) may decline due to the previous issues and he already has his money.
He also doesn't want to open another can of worms because then he'll have a dead truck in his shop again under his responsibility. What happens if the NM is wrong and he opens up the VC to find out it's not a valve spring?

Otherwise you wait on the NM to fit you in and you pay for that.

I'm guessing your bridge with OM has been burned.

I think you're going to have to wait for the NM to work you in.

 

[80 Life]

A valve retainer might have slipped out from not being seated properly during head work.

So if a new mechanic finds that the issue is occurring due to improper work by the previous mechanic, where do you guys thinks I go from there? Do I try to get some money back? Get the new mechanics labor paid for? Or walk away and cut my losses

 

[landtank]

When I had heads done my shop wanted the head, shim buckets and cams to do the job. After straitening the head and grinding the valves they would set the gap on the cam shafts and then reassemble. Upon receiving the head I would remove the cams, install the head and finish the job. Without removing the shim buckets and inspecting all 24 valve stems a problem with either a seated retainer or broken spring wouldn't be obvious.

I'd have a conversation with the original mechanic explaining what you have been told and ask him to remove the valve cover and check the valve train.

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

When I had heads done my shop wanted the head, shim buckets and cams to do the job. After straitening the head and grinding the valves they would set the gap on the cam shafts and then reassemble. Upon receiving the head I would remove the cams, install the head and finish the job. Without removing the shim buckets and inspecting all 24 valve stems a problem with either a seated retainer or broken spring wouldn't be obvious.

I'd have a conversation with the original mechanic explaining what you have been told and ask him to remove the valve cover and check the valve train.

I don’t have any valuable tech advice for you, but I would like share that the manner in which you are proceeding is an example that many people could learn from.

It’s clear this situation is tricky and requires the right touch by you. I can imagine the respectful tone you you have carried throughout the this thread reflects the way in which you have communicated your situation to both the old mechanic and prospective new ones. This is important because any new mechanic will be aware of your complex situation and will be assessing your situation.

At the end of the day nobody wants to work with a primadonna. You’re asking the right questions and the folks who are responding are giving excellent advice. Reach out to the old mechanic and lay out your concerns on the table. Ask him what he thinks is the best way forward for you two, and counter politely with your concerns if it’s not the answer you want.

Remember, a few months down the road when you’re driving your rig out in the backcountry you want to be 100% about it. That may help you with this decision too. You want confidence in the work done. Apologies if this comes across condescending in anyway, it certainly not meant to.

We’re rooting for you!

 

[80 Life]

The new mechanic was able to get the original mechanic on the phone.
The original mechanic has agreed to get the Cruiser back into his shop and replace the valve springs. Great.
To be honest it doesn't seem like the original mechanic agrees with the diagnosis of a broken valve spring. He doesn't think the symptoms or sound fits a valve spring being broken. Due to this I told him if the diagnosis I went and got elsewhere is wrong, I will pay for the labor. And if the diagnosis I went and got elsewhere is correct and valve spring replacement is the answer, my engine should be running smoothly again and I said I would pay the rest of the 20% from the original ticket.
The original mechanic prefers to use rope to take up the space in the chamber to hold the valves shut in order to access the valve springs, instead of pressurizing with air.

 

[80 Life]

Response from original mechanic after looking at the motor again today.

“Yeah I tore it apart. I can't find anything wrong in there. I checked compression and it had 125psi on cylinders 1 and 2. The head looks good, the cams look good.”

I watched the other mechanic test cylinder 1 at 65 psi and losing pressure, so I honestly don’t know what to say. At a loss guys.
Might be time to ship in that donor motor at 228k with newly done head gasket?

 

[FMC80]

Response from original mechanic after looking at the motor again today.

“Yeah I tore it apart. I can't find anything wrong in there. I checked compression and it had 125psi on cylinders 1 and 2. The head looks good, the cams look good.”

I watched the other mechanic test cylinder 1 at 65 psi and losing pressure, so I honestly don’t know what to say. At a loss guys.
Might be time to ship in that donor motor at 228k with newly done head gasket?

Cut your losses.

 

[80 Life]

Cut your losses.

As in ship in the donor motor?

 

[FMC80]

As in ship in the donor motor?

I’d cut my losses and talk with your other mechanic that you found. have him take lead on your cruiser.

 

[bj70bc]

dont ever talk to the first mechanic again

 

[aztoyman]

Online reviews are warranted at minimum.

 

[thabruiser]

even if the mechanic who first worked on the vehicle is competent, he may not be able to see past his preconceived notions to continue successfully working on this 80. And beyond that, you've lost faith in his abilities, regardless of how upstanding he seems to be. I suggest a fresh mechanic just for that reason alone. In the end, it is just business. No hard feelings towards him, but a fresh perspective can do wonders for all involved.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Ughhhhh! What a shít situation.

Firstly, kudos to you on how you have handled this. Wise beyond your 24 years.

Secondly, don't let the first guy do anything else. Take the truck back. With his response to looking at the valve springs, you've gone as far as possible with him. Honestly, it doesn't sound like he took cams out to be able to inspect valve springs.
From here on in, I would expect nothing positive from him either in terms of work performed, or any likelihood of getting money back.

The second mechanic sounds like he's got a good approach.

There's some really solid advice on diagnosis from @jpoole @powderpig and others.

Chat to the second guy again see what his opinion is on trying to repair vs new short block.
Ask questions.
Is he confident with his diagnosis? Intelligent diagnosis is such an important part of fixing stuff efficiently

Did he put a borescope into each cylinder?
Takes a few minutes to pull plugs, and put a camera into each pot. If a spring is broken, may even see a valve not fully seated.

How would he go about repairing if it is indeed a valve spring? How much time would he expect that to take?

 

[80 Life]

Ughhhhh! What a shít situation.

Firstly, kudos to you on how you have handled this. Wise beyond your 24 years.

Secondly, don't let the first guy do anything else. Take the truck back. With his response to looking at the valve springs, you've gone as far as possible with him. Honestly, it doesn't sound like he took cams out to be able to inspect valve springs.
From here on in, I would expect nothing positive from him either in terms of work performed, or any likelihood of getting money back.

The second mechanic sounds like he's got a good approach.

There's some really solid advice on diagnosis from @jpoole @powderpig and others.

Chat to the second guy again see what his opinion is on trying to repair vs new short block.
Ask questions.
Is he confident with his diagnosis? Intelligent diagnosis is such an important part of fixing stuff efficiently

Did he put a borescope into each cylinder?
Takes a few minutes to pull plugs, and put a camera into each pot. If a spring is broken, may even see a valve not fully seated.

How would he go about repairing if it is indeed a valve spring? How much time would he expect that to take?

I agree, I’m done with the original mechanic.

I like the new mechanic and his approach.
He could fix a broken valve spring in 3-4 hours.
The problem is he is about 2 months out to get me into his shop.

I’m pretty against a new short block at this point, the cost is insane and I still think the noise is coming from the top end.
Even if it isn’t, this new mechanic does a full rebuild for 3k-5k when a new short block is $4k alone with people waiting more than half a year to receive theirs.
I do have a lead on a running motor with 228k miles and a recently done head gasket, pulled for an LS swap only $800 plus ship. It does make me sad to think about putting a higher mileage motor in my truck with only 153k, but at this point it might be the quickest and simplest way to get a running truck again.

 

[ozarkmud]

Normally, I'd say to just fix that valve spring, but $800 for a "new" engine, assuming it's is as good as you think, is a great deal.

But still something to see who's able to do that swap vs the valve spring. May be easier just to do the valve spring.