geez something must have gone real wrong for an entire new block. How much does it cost for a new short block from toyota in your part of the world. ? $20k usd is a lot of money.
Mechanic Fixed Head Gasket, At Completion Tells Me I May Require Engine Rebuild (1 Viewer)
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Fj80oregon
GOLD Star
So your bearings are good? What is the problem? You have a bent rod? I’m confused? Did you check the main bearings? Tow it my shop in Oregon I’ll rebuild it while drinking whiskey and won’t send you down the rabbit hole. Honestly if you need a new piston and rod, this is $150 dollars in parts npr ring set is $100. With your mileage it’s hard to believe that you need a rebuild? But if you do how is it $20k? Pull motor and have the block bored out .50mm over deck the block. New main bearings and con rod bearings. My machine shop charges $800 for that and paints it. He also puts the short block together. I provide the parts main and con rod bearings around $350 for OEM and new pistons $320 OEM. $100 for npr rings. Replace timing chain and associated parts $160. Now you have a refreshed short block for for $1800 bucks. Your head is already done. Buy a new head gasket kit slap together and reinstall. This should be under 5k with him covering labor. Buy your own parts from partsouq and save your self thousands. Let me know if you need help I rebuild motors and can show you the light.! Some pictures of what your rebuilt motor will look like to keep the vibes positive!!
FMC80
SILVER Star
Solid post.
- Thread starter
- #44
New block is $4,100 shipped to my door, they are still made and kept in stock by Toyota. Rebuild would be atleast half that and the idea of a brand new block sounds a lot better to me after the continuous problems I’m having with this motor. I can have the block here in 1 week and the mechanic needs 1 week with it. At this point it’s also the quickest solution and I can’t keep justifying this purchase when I don’t have a working 4x4 vehicle so I’d love to get this thing running
- Thread starter
- #45
To clarify, I am $20k into the cruiser. If I was $20k into the motor it better be a V8 swap lol.
Also, your info is exactly what I was looking for, super appreciated. I sure do wish your shop was in Colorado. Everyone keeps saying “with my mileage” but I wish I focused more on who the previous owners were and not the miles put on it.
I would try to wrench this myself, but I already know my Mech Engineer girlfriend would end up taking the wrench out of my hand and leaving me embarrassed lmao
Fj80oregon
GOLD Star
I would verify with Toyota about availability and “in stock” i know people Have been waiting months for blocks @Rouleur waited 2 months for his. I understand the idea of just throwing in a assembled short block it will be good for a long time if taken care of. Remember your dowel pins will need to be transferred over from your old block to the new. These motors are designed with two rebuilds in-mind designed like that from Toyota. Let me know if you end up getting a short block I will buy your short block and renew life into it and sell it to a mud member. You can ship it in the crate Toyota packages your new block in.
You are on the front range? There are a lot of shops that work Toyotas, not trying to be mean by I would choose a new mechanic if you can’t do the work. Can you post a video of the engine sound? Is the truck running now? Is the noise the same after the head was rebuilt?
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- #48
It is running now and sounds the same after the head rebuild. Hopefully I pick it up today and can get a video posted up.
alia176
SILVER Star
If you're 24 and wanting to get into 80 series, you should at least do some of the wrenching yourself. Or have a super trusted, local shop that does the work. Even if your girlfriend seems a lot more savvy than you do.
Unless the mechanic you hired wants to eat the cost for all of the labor, I don't think it's worth going back. He may seem like a great mechanic (maybe he is, maybe he isn't), but this is quite the expensive mistake. $4k is a lot of money for head gasket + odds and ends.
I have no idea what kind of rod issue this is supposed to be. And can't you just get a crank, very worst case? I think taking it to a friendly mudder and learning the ropes is a better idea. No bearing damage but a knock is odd. I mean maybe some water got into just one cylinder and bent the rod without leaving much else of a trace. Seems crazy, right?
I have a mechanic friend who generally does just motorcycle work. I would stand by him on stuff like this, but I turn wrenches and I know he knows his stuff. Sometimes he makes mistakes and usually I can catch him, just like he could catch me making a mistake. His prices are exceedingly reasonable (for me, especially). I don't think your mechanic is in the same boat with a bill like that, though.
I know a new block sounds nice, but that's a lot of money and honestly isn't going to buy a lot more security. There's a number of things that can go wrong, and places that money is better spent.
Fj80Oregon's offer is a really good one. If you can stomach the time, it may be worth it. And the knock may not even kill it any time soon.
Unless the mechanic you hired wants to eat the cost for all of the labor, I don't think it's worth going back. He may seem like a great mechanic (maybe he is, maybe he isn't), but this is quite the expensive mistake. $4k is a lot of money for head gasket + odds and ends.
I have no idea what kind of rod issue this is supposed to be. And can't you just get a crank, very worst case? I think taking it to a friendly mudder and learning the ropes is a better idea. No bearing damage but a knock is odd. I mean maybe some water got into just one cylinder and bent the rod without leaving much else of a trace. Seems crazy, right?
I have a mechanic friend who generally does just motorcycle work. I would stand by him on stuff like this, but I turn wrenches and I know he knows his stuff. Sometimes he makes mistakes and usually I can catch him, just like he could catch me making a mistake. His prices are exceedingly reasonable (for me, especially). I don't think your mechanic is in the same boat with a bill like that, though.
I know a new block sounds nice, but that's a lot of money and honestly isn't going to buy a lot more security. There's a number of things that can go wrong, and places that money is better spent.
Fj80Oregon's offer is a really good one. If you can stomach the time, it may be worth it. And the knock may not even kill it any time soon.
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- #52
Understood and thanks for the input.
I have been slowly wrenching on more stuff myself and have learned more about vehicles in the last 6 months of LC ownership than ever before. When it comes to the drivetrain I try to leave that wrenching to mechanics, but I understand where you’re coming from.
Part of the reason I do wanna finish this through with my current mechanic is because he does seem willing to eat a ton of labor now that we have gotten to this point and things are still not running smoothly.
I hear what FJ80Oregon is saying, but would also counter that with labor his idea starts to creep closer to $5k, and I can get a brand new block for $4k and the labor to replace it in will be minimal as promised by my mechanic, so the two options seem very similar in cost in the end. One of the biggest bonuses of the new block is how quick it theoretically could be done. TBH timeliness is huge to me on this. I can swallow overpaying for a running badass truck, but in its current conditions with how much I’m into the vehicle I feel about as smart as a bag of rocks.
Lastly, can you expound on this statement and what going that route looks like? Seems like a crankshaft runs about $750. What else would also need to be replaced? Thanks
- Thread starter
- #53
Regarding availability on the block it seems that other user is 100% correct. The block is on “National Backorder” which they tell you can be a couple weeks to a couple months. I’ll trust the other user who just received theirs and say it’s atleast 2 months out if I do that route.
FMC80
SILVER Star
Took mine almost 9 months to get here on a boat from Japan. Granted, the logisticians involved with my short block purchase were short half a brain...but it'll still take a while for yours to come in unless you find someone selling theirs.
Rouleur
GOLD Star
The short blockI would verify with Toyota about availability and “in stock” i know people Have been waiting months for blocks @Rouleur waited 2 months for his. I understand the idea of just throwing in a assembled short block it will be good for a long time if taken care of. Remember your dowel pins will need to be transferred over from your old block to the new. These motors are designed with two rebuilds in-mind designed like that from Toyota. Let me know if you end up getting a short block I will buy your short block and renew life into it and sell it to a mud member. You can ship it in the crate Toyota packages your new block in.
The short block I acquired is not the one I ordered that one has still not arrived six months.I would verify with Toyota about availability and “in stock” i know people Have been waiting months for blocks @Rouleur waited 2 months for his. I understand the idea of just throwing in a assembled short block it will be good for a long time if taken care of. Remember your dowel pins will need to be transferred over from your old block to the new. These motors are designed with two rebuilds in-mind designed like that from Toyota. Let me know if you end up getting a short block I will buy your short block and renew life into it and sell it to a mud member. You can ship it in the crate Toyota packages your new block in.
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- Thread starter
- #56
Just got off the phone with the mechanic. When talking final price he flat out stated that he should have fully diagnosed the noise before recommending putting money into the top end. He said he wants to give my deposit back of $1000 and chalk this up as a loss for him. I told him I want to pay the $1800 in parts at a minimum cause I also want to be fair about this as well.
I had already came to the conclusion with many other MUD'ers that I wasn't going to blame the mechanic or make him eat any costs so I feel a little weird about all this. Any suggesttions on what you guys think is fair? To summarize, if billed normally it would have been parts $1800 and labor at $2000, so a total of $3800. He thinks $0.00 is fair, I think atleast $1800 should be paid.
Easy to feel bad for myself as the "broke" 24 year old, but even easier to want to pay the local mechanic with a family and new shop opening in the coming months. The phone call ended at a stand still with both of us wanting to do the fair thing, but unsure what that is.
Regardless I am picking the Cruiser up tonight and will post a video. My mechanic didn't think to take pics, but he says the bearings and crank looked "outstanding" and that he is at a loss for what the exact cause is without tearing the whole thing apart for a rebuild., and with the unknown issues he would recommend sourcing a used motor and putting my refreshed top end on there.
I had already came to the conclusion with many other MUD'ers that I wasn't going to blame the mechanic or make him eat any costs so I feel a little weird about all this. Any suggesttions on what you guys think is fair? To summarize, if billed normally it would have been parts $1800 and labor at $2000, so a total of $3800. He thinks $0.00 is fair, I think atleast $1800 should be paid.
Easy to feel bad for myself as the "broke" 24 year old, but even easier to want to pay the local mechanic with a family and new shop opening in the coming months. The phone call ended at a stand still with both of us wanting to do the fair thing, but unsure what that is.
Regardless I am picking the Cruiser up tonight and will post a video. My mechanic didn't think to take pics, but he says the bearings and crank looked "outstanding" and that he is at a loss for what the exact cause is without tearing the whole thing apart for a rebuild., and with the unknown issues he would recommend sourcing a used motor and putting my refreshed top end on there.
Fj80oregon
GOLD Star
So the problem is still not properly diagnosed! You still have hope. Also like many have said a knock does not mean it’s the end of your motor trying a 15-40 weight oil might help with this issue. I think the best path forward is post up accurate videos of the noise on a cold engine and warm engine and see if we can help you out and maybe save you some cash. I would not completely rule out a ps pump or other pulley noise. pump the brakes and let us play mechanical via the internet.
Understand your fairness reasoning too.
1. conclude if you own an old lc, you have to be willing and prepared to get spanners out. Learn your lc in, out , backwards.
2. The value of Money is a delicate issue. It is great that both of you are choosing honour and virtue. He is basically a good fella, so are you.
3. Kinda feel the mechanic should wear it, this is the responsibility of taking it on. He is learning what it is to have a business, and should have consulted his colleagues if he had doubts upon his capability, diagnosis and repair. Or simply recommended another shop or colleague. We all have to learn to say 'no' at some stage.
4. Maybe, if you get along, offer to help out 'in kind', there are things of value which is not money. Doesn't always work though.
In time you may have a friend , family or partner who have a car which you have absolute no interest working on, send them to him, even attend the drop off pick up, say g'day, to acknowledge he did do the right thing in the end towards you.
Changing oil, brakes, bearings, wiper blades etc. send them his way. The basic run of the mill service are the indie mechanics bread and butter. They can do financially quite well indeed from this work.
5. Take up the beautiful offer of your local mudders. This is absolute gold which does not happen often in the cosmos. You will make fantastic friends and learn heaps about your lc and have fun whilst at it. Especially when young and free of big commitments. Learn off your elders and then share with your peers.
In Oz, there is a fella 3 days drive from me on mud. I have already learnt much from him on mud, we have plenty in common. I feel one day we shall meet in person. But have so many commitments at my stage of life, I can not find the time.
If you have a mudder not too far from you take the offer up. Learning about what you are interested in is one of the best things in life, doing it in company with like minded kin is even better!
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- #59
So I went and picked up the Cruiser just now. Last night the mechanic thought it over and decided "fair" was 20% off the bill. At one point yesterday it was $0.00. In total I paid $3200 for the job even with the discount. Yes I know its bad guys.
But it gets so much worse.
I hop in the Cruiser and drive it the mile home. This noise is not the "very slight tick" me and him had talked about. This is an aggressive knock.
I have videos I will post of the motor running a few months before all this. You will likely barely hear a tensioner idler pulley noise that needs to be replaced, causing that faint tick that I had talked to the mechanic about.
I will also post videos of the motor now as well. It is horrendous. Both my girlfriend and friend who owns an 80 Series Cruiser and did the whole Moab trip with me literally days before all this both say they have never heard that knock either.
I took this vehicle into him to check for a head gasket leak and this very faint tick I thought was a belt. Sure enough it was blown and we scheduled for this repair. At the same time the faint tick was diagnosed up to be the timing chain guides which we agreed to also replace in the process along with all other timing components.
I drove my Cruiser the 1 mile home and parked it. It sat until the parts came in a month later and I brought my Cruiser back the 1 mile to his shop. No mention by him of a louder knock this entire time.
He texts me one day saying everything went perfectly and he would have it running and to me the next day. The next day I get a call that the noise is still present.
If the knock was present and sounded like this before the top end rebuild then I am really confused why the mechanic would ever recommend we put $3800 into it.
The only person I have told the whole story to is a Certified Mechanic and told me immediately I should take him to court and make this right. This is the last thing I want to do guys for so many reasons.
Please any advice would be great whether it is about the noises or the situation between me and the mechanic. I typed a few texts out to him about discussing this further and showing my before and after videos, but have learned that taking a nights rest on it usually helps a ton. So I thought I would dump this here, gather some advice and information, and methodically move forward with this tomorrow. The one good thing is the new mechanic I am talking to is who I originally wanted to do the job, but was months overbooked. He is so fired up for me that he is willing to get in there ASAP and figure out what the heck is going on here. He has done a lot of motor work on my buddies Cruiser's and is legit. Also, offering certain mechanics single barrel whiskey bottles is the quickest way to their heart I have found.
I wish I had taken more videos right before I gave him the Cruiser.
Cheers
But it gets so much worse.
I hop in the Cruiser and drive it the mile home. This noise is not the "very slight tick" me and him had talked about. This is an aggressive knock.
I have videos I will post of the motor running a few months before all this. You will likely barely hear a tensioner idler pulley noise that needs to be replaced, causing that faint tick that I had talked to the mechanic about.
I will also post videos of the motor now as well. It is horrendous. Both my girlfriend and friend who owns an 80 Series Cruiser and did the whole Moab trip with me literally days before all this both say they have never heard that knock either.
I took this vehicle into him to check for a head gasket leak and this very faint tick I thought was a belt. Sure enough it was blown and we scheduled for this repair. At the same time the faint tick was diagnosed up to be the timing chain guides which we agreed to also replace in the process along with all other timing components.
I drove my Cruiser the 1 mile home and parked it. It sat until the parts came in a month later and I brought my Cruiser back the 1 mile to his shop. No mention by him of a louder knock this entire time.
He texts me one day saying everything went perfectly and he would have it running and to me the next day. The next day I get a call that the noise is still present.
If the knock was present and sounded like this before the top end rebuild then I am really confused why the mechanic would ever recommend we put $3800 into it.
The only person I have told the whole story to is a Certified Mechanic and told me immediately I should take him to court and make this right. This is the last thing I want to do guys for so many reasons.
Please any advice would be great whether it is about the noises or the situation between me and the mechanic. I typed a few texts out to him about discussing this further and showing my before and after videos, but have learned that taking a nights rest on it usually helps a ton. So I thought I would dump this here, gather some advice and information, and methodically move forward with this tomorrow. The one good thing is the new mechanic I am talking to is who I originally wanted to do the job, but was months overbooked. He is so fired up for me that he is willing to get in there ASAP and figure out what the heck is going on here. He has done a lot of motor work on my buddies Cruiser's and is legit. Also, offering certain mechanics single barrel whiskey bottles is the quickest way to their heart I have found.
I wish I had taken more videos right before I gave him the Cruiser.
Cheers
- Thread starter
- #60
I will look for videos closer to the time of when I dropped it off, but it sounded like it did in that Late June video. Mid October is when I was finally told the Cruiser had a blown head. The videos probably have 2k in mileage difference maximum. I know alot can happen in 2k miles, but the knock wasn't there.
Also, I am pretty positive the head had a slight leak my entire ownership. That sweet exhaust smell is unmistakable. I am saying this because I want to clarify that it was not blown on the Moab trip or anything like that and when the head was tested it could barley get the dye to turn color so the leak was barley present.
Also, I am pretty positive the head had a slight leak my entire ownership. That sweet exhaust smell is unmistakable. I am saying this because I want to clarify that it was not blown on the Moab trip or anything like that and when the head was tested it could barley get the dye to turn color so the leak was barley present.
