LX450 vs. New FJ Cruiser (2 Viewers)

[blunt]

I'm sure the A-Track (going to do some research on what this acutally is) and rear locker make the FJC a very capable wheeler right out of the box. I'm sure they are really great vehicles, they are a Toyota product so their quality is top-notch.

I personally don't want to put up with another IFS vehicle. I had a 3rd gen 4Runner for many years that was lifted and driven off-road. Although the CV shafts held up to years of abuse, the steering rack(s) didn't enjoy the ride. I think that for long term off road driving, a straight front axle is the way to go.

I'm sure someone will chime in and say that I am bad mouthing the FJC just because I am giving my opinion from personal experience in a similarly built vehicle, but that is the purpose of the topic to begin with.

Either way, you would never convince me to drive an FJC instead of an 80 because they are world renowned for their abilities and strength. I love driving my 80. The proof is already apparent that the 80 is one of the best 4x4s ever built. The FJC needs to prove it's worthyness since it is the new kid on the block, not the 80.

 

[Flank]

First post! Woo hoo!

At least with Toyota, the discussion isn't which one is worse, it's which one is better...

I have been an FJC owner for the last few years, and love the truck. As long as the inspection goes ok, as of the end of the week I will also have a '97 LX450.

So, as to which is better... Who cares, get one of each!

Welcome to the 80s section of Mud!!!

Glad to have you here, be sure to post a new "introducing myself" thread, and include pics of your LX.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Either way, you would never convince me to drive an FJC instead of an 80 because they are world renowned for their abilities and strength. I love driving my 80. The proof is already apparent that the 80 is one of the best 4x4s ever built. The FJC needs to prove it's worthyness since it is the new kid on the block, not the 80.

The "new kid (Land Cruiser) on the block" was the 100-series. It has proven itself and extremely well. Even newer is the 200-series though we're waiting for it to prove itself as it's a bit too new and mods are limited.

The FJC's a great rig IN IT'S CLASS as well. It's already proved itself as a teriffic vehicle and wheeler. When you compare everything one needs in a trail rig AND you add in long-term reliability, the FJC beats the other brands overall.

The trouble starts when folks compare them outside of their class...like against 80 and 100-series vehicles.

 

[Flank]

Different strokes for different folks. Perhaps a lot of grief could have been avoided if the OP asked more about what he plans to do.

If I were planning on a Baja style speed run, and had the coin to build an FJC, you bet your ass I would. If it is good enough for team Millen, good enough for me. I think that the IFS would be perfect for it. All baja vehicles are IFS for handling reasons. I would much rather have an FJC for handling / comfort in these conditions.

For a rock rig, IFS is not as desirable. Can you do it, yes. Are a lot of kick ass rock rigs IFS, sure. Don't see many solid axle owners converting to IFS though, do you? One of the FJC owners in my club previously mentioned in my posts said he never thought wheel lift was desirable until he got his FJ and got cheers when his front tire was two feet in the air on an obstical.

knoll0351 - I personally appreciate you stopping by to give your comments and experiences. We all need some objectivity. 80 owners are very zealous and fanatical. With good reason, I think. Schotts is the flag bearer of the zealous and fanatical. Every junk yard needs it's dog. (Schotts, that is not a criticism.)

Bottom line, IMHO, the FJC is doing very well and has done a lot to prove itself. It is not perfect, but damn good. Time will tell how it holds up. Perhaps FJC owners will be having the same debate in oh, say 15 years. Perhaps not. 80s are tough as Sh1t, we all know it, that is why we can debate this so empatically with a truck that went out of production 12 years ago.

 

[knoll0351]

Thanks Flank. I never intended to bash 80's in any way. It does boil down to time and I do believe that the FJC will prove itself in the long haul. Believe it or not I'm a Huge fan of the 80's although I have been tossing around the idea of getting a 60 or a pig.... Something that I can build strickly to wheel (still streetable but barely...) But for all around I do love my Cruiser.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

80 owners are very zealous and fanatical. With good reason, I think. Schotts is the flag bearer of the zealous and fanatical. Every junk yard needs it's dog. (Schotts, that is not a criticism.)

Damn, no kidding. You know how many 80-only (non-100) owners told me my 100 was a P.O.C? I was the one laughing at them cuz I had both and knew how closely they compared capability-wise yet in every other way the 100 killed the 80.

Oh, and I take criticism well. It's the self confidence factor!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

It does boil down to time and I do believe that the FJC will prove itself in the long haul.

Come on guys! It already has!

There were a few bugs and they're worked out. They will last like the other Toy's...no question!

 

[Romer]

So I have wheeled quite a bit with FJ Cruisers since 2006. many TLCA events and many club events.

At Poison Spider during CM this year I saw an FJ easily go up a route several mini trucks had problems with and I elected not to take my 80 up

I have seen the FJ do excellent on Colorado Mtn trails, Moab, The Rubicon and at Flat Nasty

The main difference I see is the driver. In many cases people buy the FJ to wheel with no experience. That tends to limit there abilities more than any mechanical item. I remember what I could do when I first got my 80 and now. I remember a fully locked vehicle couldn't make it up Kenny's climb in Moab last year, but a fully open rig could. The difference is the driver.

I have seen Rachel (daughterofromer) do things in her IFS 4runner that many guys couldn't do in their 80.

You put Robbie in an FJ Cruiser and he would do better than most folks in any other vehicle.

I think the FJ is a pretty capable vehicle, I think the majority of the drivers are less experienced and that translates to some as the vehicle is less capable.

Toyota 4WDs are all well built machines. Like with my Callaway driver, the actual play is only as good as the yokel swinging the club.

Just my opinion

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

So I have wheeled quite a bit with FJ Cruisers since 2006. many TLCA events and many club events.

At Poison Spider during CM this year I saw an FJ easily go up a route several mini trucks had problems with and I elected not to take my 80 up

I have seen the FJ do excellent on Colorado Mtn trails, Moab, The Rubicon and at Flat Nasty

The main difference I see is the driver. In many cases people buy the FJ to wheel with no experience. That tends to limit there abilities more than any mechanical item. I remember what I could do when I first got my 80 and now. I remember a fully locked vehicle couldn't make it up Kenny's climb in Moab last year, but a fully open rig could. The difference is the driver.

I have seen Rachel (daughterofromer) do things in her IFS 4runner that many guys couldn't do in their 80.

You put Robbie in an FJ Cruiser and he would do better than most folks in any other vehicle.

I think the FJ is a pretty capable vehicle, I think the majority of the drivers are less experienced and that translates to some as the vehicle is less capable.

Toyota 4WDs are all well built machines. Like with my Callaway driver, the actual play is only as good as the yokel swinging the club.

Just my opinion

And a very good thought/opinion on all this to boot.

I cannot imagine a vehicle with a traction device not making Kenny's Climb.

 

[maybe_a_80...]

Given that each would have a decent off-road tire, what are you thoughts on which would be more capable?

Wow, what a thread!

I wanted to offer an opinion from a slightly different perspective: those who have not necessarily bought their 80s for full-on off-road use, but do fully appreciate some of the finer points that make the 80 so amazingly capable.

I bought an 80 because I need a heavy, four door full-time 4wd (or AWD) truck with interior heated storage space for lots of people or gear. I drive a lot of (interstate) highway miles in the Rocky Mountain high country during winter so I need a truck with a long(ish) wheelbase because longer wheelbases are more stable at speed on icy roads and in snow. I don't ever want to get stuck going up Little Cottonwood Canyon or Vail Pass, lose control in a winddrift on Colorado 131 between Wolcott and Oak Creek or spin off an icy Wyoming state highway, and I want to travel in comfort and relative luxury. I am over "roughing it".

Above is how I define "capable".

Given this criteria, the FJ-C is a hard sell due to its smaller (and more spartan) interior, weight, and wheelbase. I don't think many of us 80 people doubt for a second a new, smaller Toyota badged "FJ-C" is lacking in off-road ability whatsoever. The front axle set-up is probably the biggest difference between the two. The 100 series Land Cruisers have more electronics than the 80 as well, especially late-model years.

When it's time to retire the 80 from DD use (in 4 or 5 years), I'll be replacing it with a late-model 100. The FJC won't figure into my search to replace my DD 80 because it's not a FJ that defines "capable" for me.

 

[Buckru]

Damn, no kidding. You know how many 80-only (non-100) owners told me my 100 was a P.O.C? I was the one laughing at them cuz I had both and knew how closely they compared capability-wise yet in every other way the 100 killed the 80.

:

Pure garbage

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Pure garbage

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Buckru]

Thank you for proving my point.

I like the FJ as a wheeler. As it compares to an 80 both have their pro's and con's. As the 80 compares to a 100, both have their pro's and cons. I don't agree with the statement "in every other way the 100 killed the 80".

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I don't agree with the statement "in every other way the 100 killed the 80".

That's OK to disagree. But think about a few bulletpoints between the two:

80:

*Small wheeling advantage due to SFA and smaller size
*Taller lift kits available enable the 80 to run more extreme trails and easier

Isn't that about it? In every other way it is OLD.

Underpowered
Under air conditioned
Smaller and less comfortable
Sub-par braking
Realiable though week steering (in the rocks)
More quirks as they age (creaky sunroofs, radiators/overheating, wierd coolant hoses to watch out for, A/C cuts out in hot weather, etc, etc)

It's not fair to compare the 80 to the 100 OVERALL because the 100 is a 7-year NEWER design...it SHOULD be better overall (and it is as anybody with both knows).

I am not doggin' on the 80. The SAME scenario holds true on the new 200-series. They have MANY improvements as they should because the 200 is another 10-years newer than the 100. Some folks feelings get hurt when they read that their old ride isn't as nice as the new model. Well...get over it. The 80 has the edge in the wheeling department and that's only on very difficult or tight trails. Everwhere else the benefits of the new features set it far apart from the 80 (just lke the 80 did to the 60).

 

[Buckru]

That's OK to disagree. But think about a few bulletpoints between the two:

80:

*Small wheeling advantage due to SFA and smaller size
*Taller lift kits available enable the 80 to run more extreme trails and easier

Isn't that about it? In every other way it is OLD.

Underpowered
Under air conditioned
Smaller and less comfortable
Sub-par braking
Realiable though week steering (in the rocks)
More quirks as they age (creaky sunroofs, radiators/overheating, wierd coolant hoses to watch out for, A/C cuts out in hot weather, etc, etc)

It's not fair to compare the 80 to the 100 OVERALL because the 100 is a 7-year NEWER design...it SHOULD be better overall (and it is as anybody with both knows).

I am not doggin' on the 80. The SAME scenario holds true on the new 200-series. They have MANY improvements as they should because the 200 is another 10-years newer than the 100. Some folks feelings get hurt when they read that their old ride isn't as nice as the new model. Well...get over it. The 80 has the edge in the wheeling department and that's only on very difficult or tight trails. Everwhere else the benefits of the new features set it far apart from the 80 (just lke the 80 did to the 60).

I agree that as newer models come out there are improvements, newer technology etc. However, in the context of what we are using these vehicles for, modernization doesn't always equate to improvements. I have over 200k on my LX and have never needed to rebuild the steering pump. Aren't you on your third steering rack for your 100? Sure, you can steer more easily but that comes with a cost. I could service my rear axle bearing in the field in case of failure. The 100 series rear bearings could not be field serviced. Many of the quirks you mention will also happen to the 100 as they age.

The point I'm making is that newer doesn't always mean better when equated to usage.

And lastly, I can accept the limitations and flaws of the rig I choose to drive and wheel without getting my feelings hurt. From what I have read and from reading the type of absolute statements you make about the superiority of the 100 over every previous model, I am not sure you can do the same.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I'm not interested in debating this again. It's a waste of time as you do not have a 100 and this is not the thread to do it in. Enjoy your ride.

 

[jonheld]

Can you provide anything to substantiate this statement? I've never heard of any issues with the FJC...asside from the travel from IFS....but what you lose in travel you gain in highway comfort...

What are you looking for here? I wheel with them often and they need to get fixed on the trail. The tie rods are the thickness of a ballpoint pen. Look under your truck. I'm pretty sure I could have bent it back into shape by slipping 2 highlift handles over the ends.

I'm not saying an 80 doesn't get hurt, but there is a difference between an impact that causes a bend that bends/breaks a part vs. a part that's simply not up to the task of turning larger than stock tires.

You say you've never heard of issues with the FJC? I find that hard to believe.

FOr the cost of upgrading an FJC with the full Ikon setup, you can do a SAS. Price it out.

 

[cruiserdan]

the tie rods are the thickness of a ballpoint pen. Look under your truck. I'm pretty sure i could have bent it back into shape by slipping 2 highlift handles over the ends.

Actually you stick the ball-socket end thingy in the receiver hitch hole and stick the highlift jack handle over the other end.

Steel Bender, 5-2-09............

 

[Tools R Us]

That's OK to disagree. But think about a few bulletpoints between the two:

80:

*Small wheeling advantage due to SFA and smaller size
*Taller lift kits available enable the 80 to run more extreme trails and easier.

The 80 will take a larger tire and it’s relatively easy to get much more flex than an IFS rig, both big advantages on the trail.

… Underpowered.

Personal preference, opinion. Mine has plenty for my uses, it’s a rocket ship when compared to my 22R powered mini. Just did a trip to Payson with Phil in the minivan, had no problem keeping up, but we weren't racing, just cruising at sensible speeds. Mine will cruise at 90 mph, way too fast for a lifted rig with 37’s, have never been denied an obstacle because of power. You may need to go faster or tow big loads, but for my needs plenty adequate.

Under air conditioned.

Agree, could be better, but with good airflow (strong fan clutch) it’s adequate. With the rear air the 100 is better, the FJC is an ice box.

Smaller and less comfortable.

True, but the level of comfort is personal preference, some need to be coddled, pampered others are tougher. Mine is plenty comfortable for 12 hr trail days, that I often run with a girl, who is older than me and wheels a ’72 FJ40 with manual steering. A wheeling rig is all about compromise, a more capable trail rig will be smaller and less comfortable.

Sub-par braking.

BS, all three have class leading brake performance.

Realiable though week steering (in the rocks).

I have never had a problem with the assist, but I have mostly wheeled manual steering, so find the 80 steering vague, any more assist and it would be hard to feel anything. The 80 is much more durable than the rack with short, angled tie rods, you have replaced what 3 racks in the 100?

More quirks as they age (creaky sunroofs, radiators/overheating, wierd coolant hoses to watch out for, A/C cuts out in hot weather, etc, etc).

All age/maintenance related issues, sunroof, radiator, hose technology hasn't significantly changed , so as the 100 & FJC age they will face the same issues. The ‘80 cooling system in good repair, has plenty of capacity to wheel in desert temps with the A/C on all day.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

The 80 will take a larger tire and it’s relatively easy to get much more flex than an IFS rig, both big advantages on the trail.



Personal preference, opinion. Mine has plenty for my uses, it’s a rocket ship when compared to my 22R powered mini. Just did a trip to Payson with Phil in the minivan, had no problem keeping up, but we weren't racing, just cruising at sensible speeds. Mine will cruise at 90 mph, way too fast for a lifted rig with 37’s, have never been denied an obstacle because of power. You may need to go faster or tow big loads, but for my needs plenty adequate.



Agree, could be better, but with good airflow (strong fan clutch) it’s adequate. With the rear air the 100 is better, the FJC is an ice box.



True, but the level of comfort is personal preference, some need to be coddled, pampered others are tougher. Mine is plenty comfortable for 12 hr trail days, that I often run with a girl, who is older than me and wheels a ’72 FJ40 with manual steering. A wheeling rig is all about compromise, a more capable trail rig will be smaller and less comfortable.



BS, all three have class leading brake performance.



I have never had a problem with the assist, but I have mostly wheeled manual steering, so find the 80 steering vague, any more assist and it would be hard to feel anything. The 80 is much more durable than the rack with short, angled tie rods, you have replaced what 3 racks in the 100?



All age/maintenance related issues, sunroof, radiator, hose technology hasn't significantly changed , so as the 100 & FJC age they will face the same issues. The ‘80 cooling system in good repair, has plenty of capacity to wheel in desert temps with the A/C on all day.

Keep telling yourself this stuff Kevin.