LX450 vs. New FJ Cruiser (5 Viewers)

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

As you guy's can see I've done a bit of reading on this thread and think most posts done about fjc's are just ..... people speaking out of their asses! The only "weakness" I've found around the FJC's are the same as the 80 and that is the lower control arms and their mounting points. That's pretty much it!!!!! I have not been nice to my FJ nor have I worried about the way it looks and it is still going very strong! As a matter of fact I have "abused" mine far more than the guy's in our club that are running 80's and haven't had any more issues than any of them. GRRRRR this thread has really upset me it seems that it should have been in chat and not a "real" thread. I'm going to have to stop for now....

Knoll, have you seen the Wild West lower control arms? Also the RCV Performance CV joints? Looks like you'd love 'em!

Wild West Off Road - FJ80 - FJ Cruiser High Clearance Lower Control Arms (Powered by CubeCart)

RCV PERFORMANCE FACTORY OUTLET - CV JOINT - AXLE KIT - TOOLS

Cheers,

Dave

 

[Devil's Slide Doug]

My gripe is how much the base fj cruiser costs plus all the mods compared to an 80 and its mods. With a given amount of cash, which will perform better? I believe you get more bang for your buck with an 80.

 

[knoll0351]

Thank you for the link, I chose to armor my control arm mounts with 1/2" steel plate. As for my control arms I have chosen to sleave them with 1/4" steel tube. All in all I've got about $70.00 into the upgrade and would put them against most aftermarket jobs. I was just pointing out that the "weekness" of the FJC seems to be the same as the 80.... As for the cost issue you can pick them up pretty reasonable any more and with the mods you're going to have to do to an 80 to make it wheel as well as the fj the cost issue may not be such a big deal. I've got some pretty cool toys on mine, but with 3" and 33's; full skids; and control arm issues resolved I'd say you're ready to take on most anything. A winch and bumper are also advisable, but if you don't wheel alone then they can be down the road mods. I hope I'm not rambling too much, but I seem to be the only one with an fj posting so I'm trying to field the coments.

 

[UCBerzerkeley]

As for the cost issue you can pick them up pretty reasonable any more and with the mods you're going to have to do to an 80 to make it wheel as well as the fj the cost issue may not be such a big deal.

What sort of mods are you talking about, to get the 80 to wheel like the FJC? I think that you would be hard pressed to substantiate that claim. Rather, I think it's the other way around. The 80 can fit 33s stock with no rubbing. triple locked, with solid front and FF rear, it is certainly one of the most capable stock rigs in the US market. With a 3" lift, 35s fit with no rubbing. I admittedly have not pushed the 80 near its limits, others have far more experience than me, but I certainly can tout its stats

 

[IronYuppy]

For me, it's not a matter of which one wheels 'better', it's a matter of which one will get me home again. The 80 has a big advantage there.

-Spike

Unless it was my 80.

 

[knoll0351]

What sort of mods are you talking about, to get the 80 to wheel like the FJC? I think that you would be hard pressed to substantiate that claim. Rather, I think it's the other way around. The 80 can fit 33s stock with no rubbing. triple locked, with solid front and FF rear, it is certainly one of the most capable stock rigs in the US market. With a 3" lift, 35s fit with no rubbing. I admittedly have not pushed the 80 near its limits, others have far more experience than me, but I certainly can tout its stats

I'm saying that to make a stock 80 wheel as well as a stock fjc you'd be spending some money. The short wheel base, A track, and IFS make it a very good all around vehicle. On the highway it blows the 80 out of the water hands down. Off road it is very comperable to an 80. When we ran the Rubi it seemed that everything that hung up Toy350's 80 I went right over, the things that hung me up he went right over. I'm just saying that when you're done throwing money at the 80 to make it what you want you could be into an FJC with warrenty....

 

[retrofive]

I'm saying that to make a stock 80 wheel as well as a stock fjc you'd be spending some money. The short wheel base, A track, and IFS make it a very good all around vehicle. On the highway it blows the 80 out of the water hands down. Off road it is very comperable to an 80. When we ran the Rubi it seemed that everything that hung up Toy350's 80 I went right over, the things that hung me up he went right over. I'm just saying that when you're done throwing money at the 80 to make it what you want you could be into an FJC with warrenty....

I couldn't resist throwing up a nice shot. As much as LOVE my 80 and would not trade it for much else out there, I have learned to respect the FJC. Sure there are many differences, and this debate could go back and forth for days.

Kinda fun pic with a 55, 80 and FJ playing in the ponds.

 

[Flank]

I'm just saying that when you're done throwing money at the 80 to make it what you want you could be into an FJC with warranty....

I dunno. I am a fan of the FJC, (see earlier post on thread), but I call BS here. Perhaps it is the new Obama math, but I don't think your numbers add up.

I figure based on stories told on the 80 forum recently, a locked 80 can be had for around $6-8K stock. M/Ts, 3" OME setup, sliders, front armor and winch at roughly $4500, I figure, and you have about $10.5K to $12.5K in an 80, ready to rock.

Used stock FJC (in my area - Las Vegas) Low price about $19K ish. This is no guarentee of having lockers, etc, or even being 4wd - I just took the lowest figure available on Cars.com (which has dealerships and classified ads.) Add suspension, tires, front armor, perhaps (probably) sliders, and you are looking at a minimum of $25K, i would guess.

If you want new, or near new with warranty, sure, you can spend north of $20K. I dare say that if you modified an 80 to that price point, you would have one super bad ass supercharged friggin beast on your hands.

But then again, I guess if you started throwing money into an FJC to make if what you wanted, you could end up at the price the the 80 and LX450 WERE selling at 15 years ago.

 

[snowcamo80]

I'm saying that to make a stock 80 wheel as well as a stock fjc you'd be spending some money. The short wheel base, A track, and IFS make it a very good all around vehicle. On the highway it blows the 80 out of the water hands down. Off road it is very comperable to an 80. When we ran the Rubi it seemed that everything that hung up Toy350's 80 I went right over, the things that hung me up he went right over. I'm just saying that when you're done throwing money at the 80 to make it what you want you could be into an FJC with warrenty....

Those two statements make me go - HUH?

And why would I want to spend (insert how much a new FJC cost)? When for a currently used already modded 80 ( 2.5'' - 4'' suspension kit, regear, and 35'' tires) can be had for less than $15K (depending on how motivated the seller is).


And according to your post a used modded FZJ80 can do what a newer modded FJC can do (or vice versa)?

And what kind of offroading does the FJC warranty cover?

 

[TOY350]

Hmmm.

Stock 80 with lockers vs. stock FJC. I would have to say FJC will get you further because there is just too much to hang up a stock 80.

Freeway FJC all the way around.

Both lifted & modded would be close to a draw one doing better than the other at times and vice versa.

Both need sliders, both need belly protection and both rear control arms will get bent.

The price issues, don't know prices are dropping too fast for me to want to look

 

[snowcamo80]

Hmmm.

Stock 80 with lockers vs. stock FJC. I would have to say FJC will get you further because there is just too much to hang up a stock 80.

Is this vice versa too? It was said at times during the Rubicon trip one does well than the other in some obstacles.

Its all good.

 

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

They're both superb vehicles, really. They are not the same in purpose and design and really shouldn't be compared as such...mebbe 4Runner vs FJC, FJ60 vs FJ80 or something like that. I dig them both and have both. Hell I raced the FJ Cruiser in the Baja 500...it's a fun truck. 80 has gone over the Rubicon several times, Moab, etc and I have always seen FJCs on those same trails with me...love 'em both.

Dave

 

[knoll0351]

I dunno. I am a fan of the FJC, (see earlier post on thread), but I call BS here. Perhaps it is the new Obama math, but I don't think your numbers add up.

I figure based on stories told on the 80 forum recently, a locked 80 can be had for around $6-8K stock. M/Ts, 3" OME setup, sliders, front armor and winch at roughly $4500, I figure, and you have about $10.5K to $12.5K in an 80, ready to rock.

Used stock FJC (in my area - Las Vegas) Low price about $19K ish. This is no guarentee of having lockers, etc, or even being 4wd - I just took the lowest figure available on Cars.com (which has dealerships and classified ads.) Add suspension, tires, front armor, perhaps (probably) sliders, and you are looking at a minimum of $25K, i would guess.

If you want new, or near new with warranty, sure, you can spend north of $20K. I dare say that if you modified an 80 to that price point, you would have one super bad ass supercharged friggin beast on your hands.

But then again, I guess if you started throwing money into an FJC to make if what you wanted, you could end up at the price the the 80 and LX450 WERE selling at 15 years ago.

I think the problem is with your math...I wish my FJ was worth over 20k...I don't know where you are getting your numbers from... maybe kbb high retail... but picking up a late model used fj (still covered under factory warranty) around here you can find them for 15 pretty easy. As for cost I can only look at what the other guy's in my club have into their 80's and speculate.

I was asked to check out this thread and post up what I thought so there would be some information from an FJ owner. What I read to this point was 80 owners slamming the FJ and throwing out fabricated issues. I don't know what an 80 costs, nor do I know what it will cost to mod one up. I can only comment on what I've heard or what I know my buddies have spent on their rigs...

Edit:
Nice rig by the way Dave, I bet it was a blast to run in the 500

 

[Dusty]

On the last day of cruise moab 2009 I Ran Pritchet canyon. It was raining that day. only 6 other rigs showed up for the run that morning besides me: a twisted customs buggy, a profits cruiser buggy, 2 80's on 35's, a mini crawler and get this....a blue fj cruiser on 35" swampers.

I was at camp the day before when the guy signed up for the run. The trail boss tried to talk the 60yr old + guy with the fj out of Pritchet. the guy insisted.

well Pritchet was tough that saturday. trail was wet and lots of wheelspin. an 80 broke a birf, the profits buggy broke a hub, and everybody pulled winch save the twisted customs buggy that was the most capable machine i have ever seen. My truck has 42's and i pulled winch once. The FJ pulled the 2nd most with 2 pulls. everone else pulled 4 or more times

This fj blew me away. it wheeled so consistently. it was so stable and predictable. it wheeled so fast. The fj can get it done but what made this particular FJ so great was not just the truck but the driver. This old man knew his truck. he knew when to get on it. he knew where his line was. he knew when to let up. And when we got to the desert road he was smokin fast (supercharger/exhaust and piggyback). My turbod 80 could not hang on the flats. I have it all on vid...just need to figure out the utube thing.

But i wonder what this old guy could have done with an 80...

 

[-Spike-]

How so? I'd lay odds on my fjc over most 80's....this statement holds no merit what so ever! Your 80 vs an unknown fjc maybe, but both in well repair......this isn't a chat thread so......

The 80 was overbuilt and designed for expedition wheeling. The engine has many features designed for durability rather than ekeing out MPG. The intake system is designed for Sahara-like terrain. The transmission is still used in far heavier equipment (I have essentially the same Aisin in my 2004 Mitsubishi cab-over diesel truck, for instance). The solid front axle, suspension, and steering setup will outlast any IFS setup in a duel to the death.

The FJC is a well-built example of Toyota's quality, but it is not a Land Cruiser. It is not overbuilt, it was not intended to cross Africa or similar terrain, it is not used across the world for transportation when it could mean life or death.

The one area the FJC has the upper hand in is time. It is a new vehicle, and I'm sure if you put 100 random FJC's in an endurance race with a hundred random 80's, more FJC's would finish due to worn parts on the 80's. Pit an FJC against an 80 that is 'fresh' in any kind of endurance test and my money is on the 80.

Even aside from durability, the comparison is apples and oranges. Both vehicles have features that one person is going to appreciate more than the next guy. The FJC has style. In my opinion (and that's all it is, mine) the design sacrifices function for form (especially sight lines). The 80 is a generic SUV, but it functions very well. The 80 is larger, which is good for me, but may not be good for someone else. It sacrifices MPG for size and reliability, but the FJC isn't significantly better from what I understand. The FJC is probably a better vehicle to have your family in when involved in a serious collision, (debateable by some folk) but would certainly cost more to fix if in a minor collision. An FJC will cost much more to purchase (new or low-mileage used) than an 80 plus parts and labor to bring it up to mechanical par with the FJC. I have no idea what aftermarket parts or mods cost for the FJC (they're fairly expensive for the 80 compared to, say, Jeeps) so I can't make any comparisons there. The 80's blow head gaskets, usually after 100K or more. The FJC's blow rear diffs right out of the box, have severe body cracking issues, and some other issues I disremember at the moment.

The only way I can compare the two in reference to the original poster's question is design strength. The 80 wins hands down in that arena. That's not the only criteria for buying a vehicle, and I believe any comparisons between the two vehicles must be made by the buyer using his criteria. They are two completely different vehicles that are both four wheel drive. The rest is up to the individual and their intended use. In MY opinion, which is what the original poster asked for.

In a strict interpretation of the original question (...what would be more capable off road, a '97 Lexus LX450 (mine) or a newer FJ Cruiser.) I'd say there is no 'winner'. I have wheeled with many FJC's and I'm impressed with them. Due to the differences in overhang, suspension, dimensions, etc. there is no way to say one is better 'off road' because 'off road' covers a lot of ground and involves an uncountable number of different scenarios. The FJC may walk right over a particular spot (or under a certain tree) that my 80 has trouble with. The driver of the FJC was almost certainly more comfortable on the drive to that particular spot. I will say that I've seen a lot more FJC's on the back end of a strap being pulled by an 80 than vice-versa, suggesting that the 80's made the journey with less problems.

I would never slam someone for owning an FJC. They are great vehicles, if you are wanting what they have to offer. They simply offer different things than the 80 does.

-Spike

 

[fghanem]

The FJC is a well-built example of Toyota's quality, but it is not a Land Cruiser. It is not overbuilt, it was not intended to cross Africa or similar terrain, it is not used across the world for transportation when it could mean life or death. ...

-Spike

x2, that's why i said the only vehicle Toyota currently manufactures that compares is the Fj76 (almost identical to the 80 series.. engine, frame and drive train).

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I'm saying that to make a stock 80 wheel as well as a stock fjc you'd be spending some money. The short wheel base, A track, and IFS make it a very good all around vehicle. On the highway it blows the 80 out of the water hands down. Off road it is very comperable to an 80. When we ran the Rubi it seemed that everything that hung up Toy350's 80 I went right over, the things that hung me up he went right over. I'm just saying that when you're done throwing money at the 80 to make it what you want you could be into an FJC with warrenty....

God, my God. If you are making this conclusion based on one Rubicon trip...that's OK. The FJC is smaller and lighter than a stock or stock-ish 80...no prob.

IF you are drawing this conslusion based on running the two vehicle types on many trails...you have blinders on. It takes only a $750 lift kit to the 80-series in order to outfit it to run almost any trail you want.

It's awesome though that you luv your ride so much.

 

[Flank]

I think the problem is with your math...I wish my FJ was worth over 20k...I don't know where you are getting your numbers from... maybe kbb high retail... but picking up a late model used fj (still covered under factory warranty) around here you can find them for 15 pretty easy.

I don't think there IS a problem with my math. My methodology is this: I got on Cars.com, looked for any FJ cruisers within 50 miles of my location (about 9 available), and picked the lowest number of the bunch (which happened to be 2wd, by the way...). Say you Do find a decent FJ locked for 15K that is stock. Given the same mods explained in my previous post, you would end up around 20K. Still twice the price of an 80.

Now that being said, I was trying to illustrate base level trail mods to get the trucks safely over stuff - mild lift, tires, sliders, front armor to hold winch... anyone - FJC or 80 owner can go nuts with the $$$.

I never disputed that the FJC was a good truck, and have stated I would not mind having one. I simply said that the idea that you would spend the same in todays market on an 80 with mild builds as an FJ with mild builds is BS. Don't take it personally, it is not an attack, it is economics.

 

[knoll0351]

The 80 was overbuilt and designed for expedition wheeling. The engine has many features designed for durability rather than ekeing out MPG. The intake system is designed for Sahara-like terrain. The transmission is still used in far heavier equipment (I have essentially the same Aisin in my 2004 Mitsubishi cab-over diesel truck, for instance). The solid front axle, suspension, and steering setup will outlast any IFS setup in a duel to the death.

The FJC is a well-built example of Toyota's quality, but it is not a Land Cruiser. It is not overbuilt, it was not intended to cross Africa or similar terrain, it is not used across the world for transportation when it could mean life or death.

The one area the FJC has the upper hand in is time. It is a new vehicle, and I'm sure if you put 100 random FJC's in an endurance race with a hundred random 80's, more FJC's would finish due to worn parts on the 80's. Pit an FJC against an 80 that is 'fresh' in any kind of endurance test and my money is on the 80.

Even aside from durability, the comparison is apples and oranges. Both vehicles have features that one person is going to appreciate more than the next guy. The FJC has style. In my opinion (and that's all it is, mine) the design sacrifices function for form (especially sight lines). The 80 is a generic SUV, but it functions very well. The 80 is larger, which is good for me, but may not be good for someone else. It sacrifices MPG for size and reliability, but the FJC isn't significantly better from what I understand. The FJC is probably a better vehicle to have your family in when involved in a serious collision, (debateable by some folk) but would certainly cost more to fix if in a minor collision. An FJC will cost much more to purchase (new or low-mileage used) than an 80 plus parts and labor to bring it up to mechanical par with the FJC. I have no idea what aftermarket parts or mods cost for the FJC (they're fairly expensive for the 80 compared to, say, Jeeps) so I can't make any comparisons there. The 80's blow head gaskets, usually after 100K or more. The FJC's blow rear diffs right out of the box, have severe body cracking issues, and some other issues I disremember at the moment.

The only way I can compare the two in reference to the original poster's question is design strength. The 80 wins hands down in that arena. That's not the only criteria for buying a vehicle, and I believe any comparisons between the two vehicles must be made by the buyer using his criteria. They are two completely different vehicles that are both four wheel drive. The rest is up to the individual and their intended use. In MY opinion, which is what the original poster asked for.

In a strict interpretation of the original question (...what would be more capable off road, a '97 Lexus LX450 (mine) or a newer FJ Cruiser.) I'd say there is no 'winner'. I have wheeled with many FJC's and I'm impressed with them. Due to the differences in overhang, suspension, dimensions, etc. there is no way to say one is better 'off road' because 'off road' covers a lot of ground and involves an uncountable number of different scenarios. The FJC may walk right over a particular spot (or under a certain tree) that my 80 has trouble with. The driver of the FJC was almost certainly more comfortable on the drive to that particular spot. I will say that I've seen a lot more FJC's on the back end of a strap being pulled by an 80 than vice-versa, suggesting that the 80's made the journey with less problems.

I would never slam someone for owning an FJC. They are great vehicles, if you are wanting what they have to offer. They simply offer different things than the 80 does.

-Spike

Again I see your speculation here, but it doesn't seem to be based in fact. As you said the FJC is a newer vehicle and hasn't "been thru the pases" over time I think we will see that they are built with durability and quality. It sounds to me that the technology that makes the FJ perform so well is what people seem to be "afraid" of failing. Untill enough time passes I don't think this argument can be won. I'm pointing out that there aren't any inherant problems with the FJ and they are being put thru the pases in places like Afganistan and coming out well. I know that mine has taken more abuse than anyone's 80 in our club and still shines. You are entitled to your opinion, but when you know little about this rig it would be better not to speculate. As an FJ owner I have spent a substantial amount of time on the MUD forum and blue forum to learn more about my rig. And yes there are less people out there that wheel their fj (but I'd speculate that the same was true with new 80's) but the problems mentioned on this thread seem to be made up.

As for the cost issue that keeps being brought up I have no idea what you can build an 80 for, but you can have a very cabable FJC for under $20,000 and if you bide your time I'd say you can have one for under $15,000.00. If you disagrea that's awsome, but if you haven't spent months looking for deals on FJ's like you have looking for deals on 80's please keep your opinion to yourself....your coments are already noted.

I am being more and more convinced that this thread had no intention of hearing the pro's of the FJ, nor an owners opinion.

 

[knoll0351]

I don't think there IS a problem with my math. My methodology is this: I got on Cars.com, looked for any FJ cruisers within 50 miles of my location (about 9 available), and picked the lowest number of the bunch (which happened to be 2wd, by the way...). Say you Do find a decent FJ locked for 15K that is stock. Given the same mods explained in my previous post, you would end up around 20K. Still twice the price of an 80.

Now that being said, I was trying to illustrate base level trail mods to get the trucks safely over stuff - mild lift, tires, sliders, front armor to hold winch... anyone - FJC or 80 owner can go nuts with the $$$.

I never disputed that the FJC was a good truck, and have stated I would not mind having one. I simply said that the idea that you would spend the same in todays market on an 80 with mild builds as an FJ with mild builds is BS. Don't take it personally, it is not an attack, it is economics.

Again I looking on the internet isn't shopping for a truck. My last post explains my opinion on the cost issue. The point I was trying to make was an FJC (most of which are stock with A track and rear locker) is ready to wheel. The only think you need to do is armor the motor and tran/transfer case. Most on the market right now that you are seeing for sale already have the lifts and armor.....