Lost brakes on the highway. What to expect? (1 Viewer)

[Demonic92]

I was on the highway at about midnight and felt my brakes go to the floor as i was getting off the highway. I could still stop it by going to the floor. I pulled into a parking lot and saw smoke (probably brake fluid that came off the exhaust) and saw that one of my brake lines in the rear went out. It looks like it's the one sitting above the rear diff. The rear end was very loaded down with a full group of people when it happened. Is this just a brake line replacement or should i be worried about more? I was gonna take it to a shop soon anyways because my rear brakes are at 2mm so i was worried it was that at first but it doesnt seem like it was that.

 

[sunrk]

It might be a good time to look at all the flexible hoses to the calipers and from chassis to the axle housings.

 

[CrabCake]

It might be a good time to look at all the flexible hoses to the calipers and from chassis to the axle housings.

Agreed...by the pics, looks like you just lost the flexible line from the chassis to the rear axle and not a rusty hard line. I'd definitely plan on upgrading your fronts too, maybe go with stainless as they really aren't that much extra. Looks like most of the mess came from hitting the drive shaft and flinging everywhere...glad that you were able to get off of the road safely, especially with passengers on board!

Also plan on a fluid flush, but know that bleeding can be a little tricky on the 80, so be sure that your mechanic is somewhat toyota knowledgeable and not just a generic brake & muffler type shop.

 

[BILT4ME]

I was on the highway at about midnight and felt my brakes go to the floor as i was getting off the highway. I could still stop it by going to the floor. I pulled into a parking lot and saw smoke (probably brake fluid that came off the exhaust) and saw that one of my brake lines in the rear went out. It looks like it's the one sitting above the rear diff. The rear end was very loaded down with a full group of people when it happened. Is this just a brake line replacement or should i be worried about more? I was gonna take it to a shop soon anyways because my rear brakes are at 2mm so i was worried it was that at first but it doesnt seem like it was that.
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Based on the curve of that line, you had a load of people in it and the line sat against the exhaust and burned through.

Install a new hose, bleed the system, and get on with life. Make sure when you install the new hose, it is routed and curved so it will not come close to the exhaust under full compression of the suspension.

Also consider a set of air bags for the rear springs for the next time you're going to haul a load like that. They're about $100 from Airlift.

Oh, and make sure you pressure wash that underside sooner than later.
Brake fluid will eat paint off of anything and will begin the rusting process.

 

[jpoole]

Agree with all of the above and will add that if the brake hose is getting that close to the exhaust that a shield on the exhaust may be worth considering. That hose will last a long longer if it's isn't heat cycled any harder than it has to be.

Brake fluid readily combines with water so if pressure washing isn't an easy option simply spraying the area with water from the hose will help flush away the brake fluid.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Brake fluid will eat paint off of anything and will begin the rusting process.

Not such an issue with modern auto paints, but yeah, wash it off.

 

[Brindleboxer]

I think you need to get rid of the Dobinson's, I am local and could take them off your hands. Agree with all the info above. Not sure what lift the springs are but make sure to replace the lines with the appropriate length, check at full compression and full drop.

 

[jonheld]

Is this just a brake line replacement or should i be worried about more?

When you lifted the truck did you replace the 2 soft line axle drops with longer OEM lines to accommodate the lift?
If not then you have possibly been yanking on those lines when you go offroad and the axles articulate. Longer OEM lines are available if you search this forum.
If the soft lines are 31 years old, they owe you nothing and should ALL be replaced. Keep the brake system OEM.

 

[Demonic92]

When you lifted the truck did you replace the 2 soft line axle drops with longer OEM lines to accommodate the lift?
If not then you have possibly been yanking on those lines when you go offroad and the axles articulate. Longer OEM lines are available if you search this forum.
If the soft lines are 31 years old, they owe you nothing and should ALL be replaced. Keep the brake system OEM.

Didnt lift it. OEM shocks and dobinsons springs that are good for stock height. But i believe the lines are original. So i will get them all replaced as well as figuring out how to keep the one away from my exhaust... OEM brake lines still available? I can ask the shop to find OEM for me if possible. I unfortunately do not have any time to do this repair myself so.

 

[jonheld]

Didnt lift it. OEM shocks and dobinsons springs that are good for stock height. But i believe the lines are original. So i will get them all replaced as well as figuring out how to keep the one away from my exhaust... OEM brake lines still available? I can ask the shop to find OEM for me if possible. I unfortunately do not have any time to do this repair myself so.

Front caliper soft line left: 90947-02612
Front caliper soft line right: 90947-02613
Banjo bolts for calipers qty 2: 90401-10015
Copper gaskets for banjo bolts qty 4: 90430-10074
Front axle drop: 96940-34006
Rear axle drop: 96940-33406

Your rear drum brakes have hard lines direct to the brake cylinders.

 

[Shoredreamer]

When I replaced my brake hoses with longer ones due to lift, the rear axle to frame hose was fairly long and had a lean towards the exhaust much like yours pictured. I ended up throwing a heat sleeve around it and also ran a small spring from the hose to fuel tank inlet so as to make sure the hose stay away from the exhaust but still allowing movement and flex to it.

 

[Demonic92]

When I replaced my brake hoses with longer ones due to lift, the rear axle to frame hose was fairly long and had a lean towards the exhaust much like yours pictured. I ended up throwing a heat sleeve around it and also ran a small spring from the hose to fuel tank inlet so as to make sure the hose stay away from the exhaust but still allowing movement and flex to it.

Smart.

 

[BILT4ME]

Smart.

Pretty sure @jonheld nailed it, but what year is your truck?

 

[Demonic92]

Pretty sure @jonheld nailed it, but what year is your truck?

1991

 

[BILT4ME]

1991

That's what I guessed and Jon has a good eye for those.

 

[Demonic92]

Alright so shop replaced the brake line with a slee extended steel brake line (I'm in Utah now, they got it from Cruiser Outfitters), replaced the drums, shoes, and hardware, and did a fluid flush. I reminded them twice to pay attention while flushing the brakes as it's apparently tricky. Got it back today and the good news is i have brakes again. But i am
Not 100% sure if the brakes feel the way they should? It feels like the pedal goes pretty far down the first time i push it down to stop, but if i pump the brakes (which i do anyways when braking downhill, etc.) it gets more firm and feels a little more comfortable. I can't quite remember what it's actually supposed to feel like because i remember it starting to get more spongy a few months ago (presumably due to old brake fluid and rear shoes that were worn down to metal.) can someone advise what it should feel like while braking? My parking brake lever also goes up higher than before, i suppose i need to adjust it. Perhaps there's s brake in period/procedure for the drums that i'm unaware of?

 

[Malleus]

If you can pump your brakes and they get better, you have air in the lines. Flushing brakes isn't difficult, but it doesn't happen all by itself. Any reputable shop can do it, without additional help. If they can't, go elsewhere. If you lost brake fluid in the master cylinder, it has to be bench bled, but this is also a routine job, and something a reputable shop should know how to do. There is nothing special about Land Cruiser brakes.

There is no "break in period' for brakes. If your brakes aren't working like new, meaning they plant your face on the dash, the work was done incorrectly. FWIW, the parking brake handle is supposed to go up 7-9 clicks and then stop.

This is from the 1991 FSM, which is in the 80 series section of the Resources Forum on this site, for free download. It's a searchable (CTRL+F) pdf file. The brake section starts on page BR-1.

If I paid someone to do the work you described, and the operation was what you describe, I'd be very unhappy. This is very routine work.

 

[jpoole]

Are the primary rear brakes drum or disc on this rig?

Any steps taken to keep the hose off the exhaust?

Air in the lines most often will lead to a softer, more squishy feeling brake pedal as the air is compressible. As @Malleus said, if the 2nd pedal push feels firmer then you may have been able to apply it quickly enough that the air is still compressed by the first pedal push, thus leading to a better pedal feel the 2nd time around.

Pumping brakes and having them be firmer on the 2nd push can also point to poorly adjusted brake shoes (if you have drum primaries out back) or pads that have gotten pushed out to far. Timing can be a relevant factor in feeling what may be causing the extra pedal pushes to feel better. A quick 2nd push that feels better may mean that the first push moved the shoes against the drums, and/or pads against the rotors, and then the 2nd push of the pedal was quick enough to be applied before the shoes/pads retracted.

If follow up pedal pushes feel good during a longer period until you turn, hit a bump or something like that then it could point to pads getting pushed out on one/more wheel. If you are running 4 wheel disc brakes for your primary braking then the likelihood of loose pads that need to be pushed in with a 1st pedal push is pretty low in your situation but definitely still possible. Some potential causes of this can be loose wheel bearings or other slop that allows the pads to be pushed away from the rotors more than they should be as you drive. It may be worth lifting each wheel on your rig and confirming that there's no excess slack before you drive the 80 too much, just to be safe. I've seen wheels fall off, etc. on vehicles that were recently serviced by a shop...

If you are running drum brake primaries in the rear then I'd say the likelihood of them being setup too slack is high but very easy to fix. You can typically lift one end of the axle, remove the wheel and then access the adjuster and set the shoe clearances. The shoes should auto adjust on an early 90s Toyota so there may be issues with the assembly inside the drum and I'd personally give things a look over but that's a guess as I've not worked on 90s landcruiser drum brakes.

Your parking brakes are drums on the rear even if you have 4 wheel disc brakes. I'm sure that your parking brake shoes need to be adjusted closer to the drum. You can lift the axle then remove the wheel to access/set the brakes. All you need from that point is a flat head screw driver and the knowledge of which hole to stick it in and how to wiggle it to adjust the brakes. We can share info on that, or you can find it on the forum, if you want to do this yourself. It's a quick adjustment if you are familiar with it but may take a little while the first time. I run the parking brake adjustment pretty far out to snug the shoes down and then ease it off until it barely rubs on wheel rotation. I basically leave it as tight as I can without it generating excess heat/resistance while the 80 is rolling.

As said above, it seems pretty clear that they didn't do the work properly. Brake shoe adjustment, fluid flush and general inspection would be the likely next steps if this were my 80.

 

[jonheld]

I will add that proper adjustment of the hand brake with the rear drums makes a big difference in brake feel. The FSM specifies 7-9 clicks, however I have found that this is a bit too loose. I would aim for 5-6 clicks as long as the shoes don't drag.
The rear drum brake adjustment can be a bit of a PITA. It requires you to go back and forth several times to each side all while making sure the shoes are seated correctly, especially if parts have been replaced. You have to constantly exercise the bell cranks after each adjustment of the star wheel. It takes a good amount of time to get it right.

You also really need to use the hand brake every time you park the truck to keep the rear shoes in proper adjustment.

 

[Malleus]

Following up on @jpoole and @jonheld above, ensure your bellcrank is absolutely free; you should be able to move it by hand (or by pliers, as the case may be). I've had to spend hours on bellcranks to remove rust and get them to move freely in the pivot, but it's time well spent. Once it's done, it stays done for a while. It's a point of lubrication maintenance that's not in the FSM; Toyota didn't allow for rust prevention in the maintenance plans.

You can either polish them with a wire brush (you'll need to pull the boot away), and lube them with PB Blaster, or just replace them. They're not expensive.

Also, make certain the two return springs (on the outside of the brake housing) are present. Brake shops pull them off, because they "interfere" with the installation of the new shoes, and loose them. Also cheap parts.