LC200 Brakes - "Warping" Rotors every 10k

[jrmiv]

Hi all, quick question that someone may have some insight into. I have a 2016 LC with a mystery brake problem that my shop seems to not be able to fix. Every ~6-10k miles, I start getting a "warped" sensation when braking. When braking (especially from higher speeds or when the brakes have warmed up some) the vehicle will rhythmically lurch to a halt -- nothing felt in the brake pedal. This makes for a super uncomfortable driving experience.

The last time my shop replaced the generic Duralast rotors and pads for a nicer japanese set that they thought would be more equivalent to OEM thinking that the lower quality rotors and pads weree generating build-up that was resulting in the "warped" feeling. Unfortunately, the feeling returned after ~6k miles this time. I'm worried that something is out of alignment or fundamentally wrong with my brake system that's causing this issue. Anecdotally I'm seeing more brake dust on the front than the rear.

I'm wondering if anyone on this forum might have some ideas as to what might be wrong so that next time I go to the shop I can offer some suggestions.

 

[JohnPW]

Subscribed. My 2016 is doing this now. I have 82k miles on mine and I think I’m on my third set of brakes, so it’s not a 10k mile thing. I’m used to heavy SUV’s eating brakes but the pulsing braking due to (I assume) warped rotors is a new problem. Mine have all been OEM.

 

[CT3]

Please add any additional detail that may be relevant:
1. Brand/model/compound of parts previously and currently installed?
2. Status of brake fluid, lines, and associated system components
3. Driving characteristics/location — mostly highway/city? Major elevation changes?
4. Does the vehicle get used for towing or offroading?

Sorry you’re having this trouble, something isn’t right.

FWIW, I’ve had great luck with the OEM setup and just recently “upgraded” (depending on your perspective) to DBA pads/rotors and Slee SS lines.

I would suspect that there must be something wrong with the parts that are being installed, the manner by which they are installed or perhaps the way the vehicle is being used. I think my first set of rotors lasted 70k miles on my 2015, and even at the end they still had some life in them and never exhibited anything like what you’re referring to.

YMMV disclaimer…

 

[GOLIGHTLY]

Are you in a rust prone area? Rust jacking between hub and brake rotor surface isn’t entirely unheard of, but seems to me more likely to present immediately after a rotor change, if that hub surface isn’t being cleaned up nicely.

 

[Fisher23]

Hi all, quick question that someone may have some insight into. I have a 2016 LC with a mystery brake problem that my shop seems to not be able to fix. Every ~6-10k miles, I start getting a "warped" sensation when braking. When braking (especially from higher speeds or when the brakes have warmed up some) the vehicle will rhythmically lurch to a halt -- nothing felt in the brake pedal. This makes for a super uncomfortable driving experience.

The last time my shop replaced the generic Duralast rotors and pads for a nicer japanese set that they thought would be more equivalent to OEM thinking that the lower quality rotors and pads weree generating build-up that was resulting in the "warped" feeling. Unfortunately, the feeling returned after ~6k miles this time. I'm worried that something is out of alignment or fundamentally wrong with my brake system that's causing this issue. Anecdotally I'm seeing more brake dust on the front than the rear.

I'm wondering if anyone on this forum might have some ideas as to what might be wrong so that next time I go to the shop I can offer some suggestions.

I have a 2016 and had the same issue.

After several of the OEM rotors I switched to NAPA Reactive One. Problem went away.

Those are just the ones I went with as I have used them on my diesel pickup and they worked well there. The OEM ones warped quickly and was a real pain when going down a mountain road.

 

[shashe]

One theory as to why this happens:
When braking and coming to a complete stop, hot pads remain in contact with hot rotors, causing spots of heat, causing warping. There has been some suggestions to roll forward slowly or a small distance to spread the heat. Automatic transmission vehicles seem to suffer from this more than manual transmissions since there is always D engaged, where as manual has clutch engaged at stop, or neutral, so slightly higher brake application to stop car moving in AT vehicles. I've had this on a MT as well though. Thinner rotors (as they get older, get skimmed etc) also seem to be more prone to warping. City driving vs loads of highway miles also seems to have an effect since highway braking still allows air to cool rotors, where as coming to a complete stop / stop and go constantly in city driving use cases cooling of the pads/rotors is more challenging.

 

[muzzleflip]

I have a 2021 HE with 20K miles. I have had this issue since 6000 miles. The brakes have also been really touchy from the start. Dealer says everything is in spec. The issue does not seem to occur consistently

 

[OregonLC]

It's all about managing heat and not allowing pad material to bake onto the rotor. If you have a hard stop (or a series of stops that would allow the brakes to get hot), never stand still with your foot on the brake. That will cook pad material onto the rotor. Friction coefficient at that spot will be higher and you'll feel the pulsation. One strategy to manage this is to stop short of your goal and allow the vehicle to slowly creep forward during the stoplight event. Or put the truck in neutral if on a slight slope that will allow minor movement.

 

[jrmiv]

A few answers to questions that have been asked:
1. Driving is largely city/highway flat land (Alabama and North Alabama) with the majority of miles commuting on the highway between major citiese
2. No-salt/Low-salt environment. Hasn't been driven on salted roads in years
3. I'll call shop tomorrow to ask about brake component brands/model #'s
4. No towing, semi-regular dirt road/farm road driving... decent amount of mud

I get the comments about leaving hot pads on the rotors when stopping. This hadn't been an issue for my first 3 years of ownership and it's plagued me the last year-- with no changes to my driving habits. I dont believe I'm hard on the brakes.

If there is significant build-up or cooked on pad material, is there a way to see it or get rid of it without having to take it in to the shop again?

 

[rlynch356]

I had this one the rear brakes, for about a year... I finally swapped both the rotors and the pads using OEM parts since they are pretty cheap and it went away completely. The ones I took off were the original OEM ones as well so no off brand parts used in any of my attempts to fix them, I did put in 2 sets of OEM pads before I swapped both the pads and rotors together
Its build up on the rotor

 

[bloc]

TECHNICAL WHITEPAPER:
The ‘Warped’ Brake Disc & Other Myths of the Braking System

https://www.centricparts.com/media/technical_bulletins_docs/Centric_and_APC_Technical_Whitepaper_B1-Warped-Brake-Disc-8-2018_1.pdf

 

[TomEf]

TECHNICAL WHITEPAPER:
The ‘Warped’ Brake Disc & Other Myths of the Braking System

https://www.centricparts.com/media/technical_bulletins_docs/Centric_and_APC_Technical_Whitepaper_B1-Warped-Brake-Disc-8-2018_1.pdf

This is the bible of "why do my brakes pulse" and should be required reading for all heavy SUV owners.

 

[bloc]

This is the bible of "why do my brakes pulse" and should be required reading for all heavy SUV owners.

I will admit cruisers seem more prone to the issue than many competitors but applying the principles in that paper has helped me avoid pulsing brakes for most of the 100k I’ve put on my 200.

 

[Heckraiser]

When you get off the highway off-ramp and stop at a red light, put it in N or P and let your foot off the brake. Also probably not an issue in Alabama, but if you find yourself going downhill and needing to moderately decelerate, use the shifter before using the brakes. I routinely downshift in my everyday driving, just feels more natural coming from manuals and mechanically empathetic to me.

 

[bloc]

When you get off the highway off-ramp and stop at a red light, put it in N or P and let your foot off the brake.

To take it further, leave room to creep forward slowly so the pads don't sit in one spot on the rotor, which prevents that spot cooling and increases pad material transfer right there. If you keep moving, even slightly, you don't allow one area of the rotor to remain much hotter than the rest.

But yes reducing the clamping force on the brakes also slows down transfer.

IMO this is exactly what is causing the brake pulsation issues people report on this forum.

 

[goldwater58]

I've also experienced this issue on my '21. I'm on the 3rd set of rotors at ~55k miles. With the 3rd set of rotors (OEM), I ditched the OEM pads and put on Hawk LTS ceramic pads. No issues so far. I'm thinking the OEM pads were a bit more "soft" and prone to leaving deposits on the rotors when heated up.

 

[OregonLC]

I've also experienced this issue on my '21. I'm on the 3rd set of rotors at ~55k miles. With the 3rd set of rotors (OEM), I ditched the OEM pads and put on Hawk LTS ceramic pads. No issues so far. I'm thinking the OEM pads were a bit more "soft" and prone to leaving deposits on the rotors when heated up.

The Hawk LTS are absolutely fantastic. Use them on the 100/200/Ram 2500.

Toyota pads are of high quality, so I doubt there's an issue with the pads being soft. More likely it's that the Hawk LTS have a higher friction coefficient and therefore require less clamping force (and heat) for similar stops. I've not had pulsations with either, but do enjoy the improved performance with the LTS pads.

 

[doru]

All that ^ is good. My experience is that the LC/LX are more prone than other cars to this issue, especially in the front (no surprise here).
The issue is not limited to one brand or model. I had it on other cars.
What does make a big difference is how the vehicle is driven. It is not only about pads on same spot after hard braking. It is also about how you brake. Some people brake in short but ferm application. Some use light and long pressure. I found it that the long and light application is more likely to cause issues.
Solutions...
The obvious is replacing parts or at least resurface discs and new pads with proper bedding so you know you are starting off with a good setup.
On some cars the pad/rotor setup is not optimal to begin with and changing the pads with more agresive pards helps.
I found that changing the front rotors to slotted rotors helped by making the rotor more agresive to the pads. That was the solution for my Camry.
For LC I found that some aggressive driving that involves hard braking helps fixing the rotor/pad interface.

I do believe that the cruisers brakes are "undersized". They are "adequate" but not what they should be for a 100k Lexus. On the other hand, I found that most cars I owned had "undersized" - not necessary the size but the overall capabilities, brakes. On some I fixed it by changing pad type, some both pads and discs, some calipers, and some going larger. There are some cars that came with damn good brakes from the factory, and I always run the factory pads and discs.

Sorry, I do not have a silver bullet solution. This is one of those trial-and-error things.

 

[OregonLC]

FWIW, I've found both the 100 and 200 to wear the rears more rapidly than the fronts.

While I do believe that the pads make a difference, I don't believe that for a daily that slotted/drilled make any difference. OEM rotors FTW in my book.

 

[TeCKis300]

Driving style has a lot to do with this, exacerbated by the heavy 200-series.

If it really is a pad deposit issue, short of replacing disks and pads, I would suggest attempting to re-bed in the brakes as a first troubleshooting step.

Something like:

1. Increasing speed to 70 MPH and braking strongly down to a low speed without stopping
2. Repeating this process 3-5 times. They should smell pretty hot.
3. Driving some additional miles, only lightly braking if needed, to cool down the brakes

May need to rinse and repeat the above.

I find that sometimes switching pads while on the same rotor may create potential for pulsation. Same strategy, which is to re-bed in the new material evenly on the rotors.