LC not starting month 2 :-( Saga continues. EFI fuse? (1 Viewer)

[jcmiro]

So I replaced the fuel pump, the fuel filter, the MAF, the carbon canister. Now the dealership says it might be an immobilizer issue, as sometimes it appears as a fault code. They want $2000 for the ECU and immobilizer part. Im going in today to see what exact parts they want to order. Searching the 100 series threads I found a post that mimics my problem exactly. I was wonder if somebody can chime in. What do you guys think.
Copy Pasta: fix for immobilizer issue?



My symptoms were:

1. Truck would start (most of the time) after sitting overnight.
2. If truck was driven a short distance and then stopped for an hour or so, it wouldn't restart.
3. Problem was worse in warm weather.

I put a spade connector in the fuse box, in place of the EFI fuse. The truck has started every time since.

My theory is that there is a flaky circuit in the fuse box, and when it opens up, the circuit can't pull enough amperage across the fuse, so it won't power the EFI circuit. That's pretty weak, but that's all I can come up with.

Until it craps out again, I'm not going to replace the $400 fuse box. That will be my next step, or at least I'll take a close look at the internals of the fuse box to see if there are any obvious defects, but most likely a break in the solder path won't be visible.

 

[mark71]

"It might be..." they say and then propose more expensive repairs.

I think with all these unnecessary repairs and replacements, it might be cheaper to ship your car to a real service center.

I distrust any mechanic who thinks the answer to a problem is to keep replacing things until the problem is fixed.

 

[CLHickman]

"It might be..." they say and then propose more expensive repairs.

I think with all these unnecessary repairs and replacements, it might be cheaper to ship your car to a real service center.

I distrust any mechanic who thinks the answer to a problem is to keep replacing things until the problem is fixed.

Welcome to the world of the Unit State Air Force Aircraft Maintenance Complex...

 

[mark71]

Ex-Air Force, so I know exactly what you are talking about. Nobody can waste money quite as efficiently as the Federal Government.

Sorry, rant over. We now return you to our regularly scheduled saga, "Broke Down in a Third World Country".

 

[tabraha]

I'm bumping this old thread instead of starting a new one because Juan Carlos helped me solve a very similar issue to his. He ended up replacing an ecu related to the ignition as well as the ignition button. I had my problem solved by doing the old 100-series trick with the EFI Fuse. Thought it would be wise to post some feedback in this thread b/c if indeed this is the same as the 100-series then we will see more of these issues on the 200 board in the future.

Anyhow, I had a nice 350-mile roundtrip day traveling to meet up with a couple clients on Friday. The 200 ('08) drove flawlessly and gobbled up the miles in true 200 fashion. I even averaged 18.x MPG and refilled with 350mi on the tank and the low fuel light wasn't even on yet. I was very happy. The next morning I got up, loaded up the family to head off to a 5K run and the truck fired and then turned off. Same thing over and over and over. It would fire and shut down as if something was telling the engine it needed to shut down. It definitely had a feel of something like a sensor or security saying "whoa!" and immediately killed the engine. We bailed into the other 200 and I spent the bulk of my run thinking about the issue.

Got home, searched the 200 board and found JC's thread Day 14 of car not starting. and PM'd him. Got some great feedback from him and started tinkering with the gas cap, battery cables, fuses etc. Then I saw his other thread LC not starting month 2 :-( Saga continues. EFI fuse? and thought about that. I had only looked at the fuses to see if they were blown, not for any corrosion. So I went back and looked close at the 25A fuse and sure enough it had a slight bit of crud on it. Swapped it out for the 30A spare in the box and voila, problem solved. Ill add a pic of the 25A fuse later to illustrate how little it took to create the issue.

 

[blatant]

I just fixed this problem in my 100. Seems "early" for 200's to have the issue. Majority of the 100's were up there in miles.

This thread reminded me to bump the one I began a while ago. Tons of links in this thread.

100 series cranks but won't turn over / start

for reference:
EFI Relay Bypass Kit (Immobilizer Fix) for UZJ100/LX470

 

[grinchy]

Well I've got a 216K mile 2009 LX 570 which wouldn't start this morning. It cranks. All lights normal. In all ways except the engine won't stay running, it is normal. The engine catches and then immediately kills. I have probably tried to start it 30 or 40 times at this point, I got it up to 1500 rpm once, but it died again pretty much immediately. I also got it to crank for a few iterations without starting and dying. If it had a timing belt I would diagnose that, but I think it REAL unlikely that the timing chain separated in my driveway overnight.

The red car symbol (which I take to be the immobilizer) seems to come on and off as it should. It isn't on solid red or anything.

I've removed the gas cap.
I've hooked it up to techstream and there are no codes. None. Techstream is happy as a clam.
I have replaced the 25 amp EFI fuse with a new 25 amp fuse.
I've tried using remote start.
I've tried starting with the fob pressed up against the ignition button.
The car detects the key presence fine (just like normal).

Next steps:
Disconnect from battery for 15 minutes.
Replace EFI with a 30 or 40 amp fuse instead of the 25 amp

Thoughts on other things to try?

 

[TonyP]

Did you check every fuse? Both the engine bay and the driver's kick panel?

 

[TeCKis300]

Just tossing an idea out:
- vacuum leak, try disconnecting MAF and starting

 

[Markuson]

Air flow sensor is possibility.

This YouTube guy is a little odd with his repeated grinning, but have a look at this 2 minute video. It describes your exact symptoms. Answer was the sensor.

If his odd grinning is too goofy...skip to 50 seconds in...

 

[Ninja Cruiser100]

Holy cow that guys a trip!

 

[Ali FJ80]

The fuel pump could be done. Do you hear the it prime/run when trying to start?

 

[Sedalia]

Holy cow that guys a trip!

I love that guy! Did't he make you smile too?

I also admire that he obviously has to work to speak English, yet takes the time for very good diction and grammar.

 

[mcgaskins]

Air flow sensor is possibility.

This YouTube guy is a little odd with his repeated grinning, but have a look at this 2 minute video. It describes your exact symptoms. Answer was the sensor.

If his odd grinning is too goofy...skip to 50 seconds in...

Wow that guy is awesome! I think I found his problem though - using a GM airbox

 

[linuxgod]

I didn't know Ed O'Neil owned a 4Runner and had a Youtube channel

@grinchy, do you have a Toyota OBD2 USB cable? If it's a sensor failure I'd expect something to be logged in the ECU that you could see in Techstream.

If you don't have Techstream to check for a diag code, the non-techie way to check the MAF sensor is apparently "Blow air into the MAF meter, and check that the MAF value fluctuates" per the TIS docs.

 

[40Man]

I didn't know Ed O'Neil owned a 4Runner and had a Youtube channel

@grinchy, do you have a Toyota OBD2 USB cable? If it's a sensor failure I'd expect something to be logged in the ECU that you could see in Techstream.

If you don't have Techstream to check for a diag code, the non-techie way to check the MAF sensor is apparently "Blow air into the MAF meter, and check that the MAF value fluctuates" per the TIS docs.

FWIW, there are cheap OBD bluetooth dongles that will read fault codes as well. I have techstream as well, but it is easier to use a dongle rather than get my old laptop out all the time. Some apps are free and some cost a few bucks. Carista ($20 for dongle) gives a 30 day free trial of their software and you can get it on Amazon through prime so it ships fast (and you can return it if you decide you don't like it....).

 

[grinchy]

Thanks all for the replies.
No codes on any of my various obd2 devices.
On tech stream you can toggle on the fuel pump, I’ll try that and go have a listen.
There are no ‘missing sensor’ codes, I would expect that for a bad sensor.

I still strongly suspect immobilizer or other fuel cut gremlins.

Just now getting off work and will see what I can find out tonight.

 

[Markuson]

Thanks all for the replies.
No codes on any of my various obd2 devices.
On tech stream you can toggle on the fuel pump, I’ll try that and go have a listen.
There are no ‘missing sensor’ codes, I would expect that for a bad sensor.

I still strongly suspect immobilizer or other fuel cut gremlins.

Just now getting off work and will see what I can find out tonight.

I don’t know whether an airflow sensor could be operating in error without actually throwing an error code. Maybe someone more knowledgeable on that will clarify. I do know that I had an instance where one of my oxygen sensors was improperly reading despite not actually throwing an OBDII code.

Not sure what it takes to trigger a code when sensors are simply misreading things... ?

 

[grinchy]

Initial try was change nothing. Ran up to 1500 rpm then died.
Unplugged positive cable for 20 min. Same result.
Changed efi fuse to 35 amp. Same result.
Further tries were more cranking and less firing up, so it is not getting fuel.

I had it on a battery tender overnight, battery which is nearly new is fine and now fully charged. Spins it over just like it should.

I had added some heet to the gas Yesterday in case of water in fuel, that didn’t help.

Kid bedtime came and the car is outside their window, so no more fixin attempts today.

 

[grinchy]

I also jiggled the maf sensor, but didn’t get it unplugged. No change.