Landtank MAF surprising scangauge results (3 Viewers)

[jamisobe]

I have gained about 2mpg around town and that is with me being a little heavy on the skinny pedal since the install. Time will tell but as of now a big thumbs up Landtank keep the innovations coming.

Dave

Today I measured about 14mpg driving about a 3 on the skinny pedal scale (1-5, 1 being my step mother and 5 being Mario Andretti). I used to never push passed 5K before because it felt like there was nothing left to push for, but ever since I installed the LT MAF it pulls well all the way to 5400 and then lurches forward into the next gear after applying a very nice shift manually. The other day I measured 10mpg driving a 5 on the skinny pedal scale. Its nice to have it when you need it or when you want it, as long as gas prices stay low.

No doubt that the header exhaust is contributing here. I am anxious to get my head finished and then trade my 4.10s out for 4.88s or 4.56s.

 

[bpassmore]

Great thread. Thanks for the insights expressed on the technology, the research, the testing, and the results.

Good resource.

 

[fzjconvert]

This weekend I went on a little road trip to see a good buddy's first Grandchild (I"m starting to feel old) None the less, I drove from Glendale, CA (about 20 miles north of Los Angeles) to San Diego. Then to the desert so round trip, a lot in the rain and on the Hwy at 70MPH+ I drove a total of 367.4 Miles. I used 20.8 gallons of fuel. 367.4/20.8 = 17.6 MPG. Not Bad!

You are saying what does this have to do with the MAF? Well, I recently installed one on my truck. The net result is a consistent 2MPG gain City/Hwy. I have more power than I ever before pre-Landtank MAF, so it has been a win, win for me.

I just wanted to share my results after reading this thread from the beginning. I have nothing to gain. I didn't get any discount on the unit... Just wanted give a result from another Mud Brother using Landtank's MAF. Oh yeah, I am using a used sensor too... Not sure if a new one would give any better results. I just need to economize where I can.

Dave

 

[latinoguy]

This weekend I went on a little road trip to see a good buddy's first Grandchild (I"m starting to feel old) None the less, I drove from Glendale, CA (about 20 miles north of Los Angeles) to San Diego. Then to the desert so round trip, a lot in the rain and on the Hwy at 70MPH+ I drove a total of 367.4 Miles. I used 20.8 gallons of fuel. 367.4/20.8 = 17.6 MPG. Not Bad!

You are saying what does this have to do with the MAF? Well, I recently installed one on my truck. The net result is a consistent 2MPG gain City/Hwy. I have more power than I ever before pre-Landtank MAF, so it has been a win, win for me.

Dave

So, given Landtank's MAF cost, how many miles/gallons later after the mod pays for itself with increased MPG gas savings? Say at $2.2 a gallon for 87 octane?

 

[Ebag333]

Figure $200 for the mod.

Figure 14 MPG instead of 12 MPG.

At $2.00 per gallon (I like round numbers) that's 14.3 cents per mile at 14 MPG, and 16.7 cents at 12 MPG. So a net saving of 2.4 cents per mile.

That's somewhere just north of 8,000 miles you need to travel for it to pay for itself.

Not bad, actually. Not bad at all.

 

[Beowulf]

That's somewhere just north of 8,000 miles you need to travel for it to pay for itself.

I have Rick's MAF housing and I consider Rick a good friend. I would not recommend that someone buy the MAF housing if they expect an improvement in fuel mileage.

I am not seeing any measurable improvement in MPG. The performance gains by seat-of-pants are modest. The idle improvement is significant but I cannot put a number to the % improvement. The throttle response is noticeably better but I wouldn't be able to put a number on that either.

It light of all these posts claiming 15% improvement in HP and performance and MPG, I thought it should be noted that not everyone is seeing these improvements.

Would I buy another? Yes. Why? Because I think the minor improvements that I saw are worth the cost and because there *might* be forced induction on my engine some day.

YMMV.

-B-

 

[cruiserdan]

My brain is full.

I think I'm going to take the 4744S Carter AVS off of my 440 Magnum and fit it to the Cruiser.


It has to be simpler than this.........................

 

[OGBeno]

because there *might* be forced induction on my engine some day.

We need to do some good work on Pristine if this is the route you are considering.

 

[cruiserdan]

Don't worry.

He's been threatening for ~6 years.

He will have to get his you-know-whats out of his wife's purse first............

 

[OGBeno]

Don't worry.

He's been threatening for ~6 years.

He will have to get his you-know-whats out of his wife's purse first............

Now that there is funnn---aaayyyyy....

 

[landtank]

for the longest time I couldn't write my name in the snow, got that back last year

 

[lx450landcruiser]

I have Rick's MAF housing and I consider Rick a good friend. I would not recommend that someone buy the MAF housing if they expect an improvement in fuel mileage.

I am not seeing any measurable improvement in MPG. The performance gains by seat-of-pants are modest. The idle improvement is significant but I cannot put a number to the % improvement. The throttle response is noticeably better but I wouldn't be able to put a number on that either.

It light of all these posts claiming 15% improvement in HP and performance and MPG, I thought it should be noted that not everyone is seeing these improvements.

Would I buy another? Yes. Why? Because I think the minor improvements that I saw are worth the cost and because there *might* be forced induction on my engine some day.

YMMV.


-B-

I have to agree here, i installed one as well and although i can tell a bit of difference in throttle response, I have seen no milage improvement. These units are extremely well made and Im more then happy with mine, just thought i would add that to the thread.

 

[fzjconvert]

So, given Landtank's MAF cost, how many miles/gallons later after the mod pays for itself with increased MPG gas savings? Say at $2.2 a gallon for 87 octane?

I don't look at turn-a-round. I look at more if something works and it does. The mileage gain, that is just an added bonus! However, 8,000 miles isn't that bad when you think of it! BTW I spring for 92 octane rather than 87 it just runs better. IMO

 

[fzjconvert]

I have Rick's MAF housing and I consider Rick a good friend. I would not recommend that someone buy the MAF housing if they expect an improvement in fuel mileage.

I am not seeing any measurable improvement in MPG. The performance gains by seat-of-pants are modest. The idle improvement is significant but I cannot put a number to the % improvement. The throttle response is noticeably better but I wouldn't be able to put a number on that either.

It light of all these posts claiming 15% improvement in HP and performance and MPG, I thought it should be noted that not everyone is seeing these improvements.

Would I buy another? Yes. Why? Because I think the minor improvements that I saw are worth the cost and because there *might* be forced induction on my engine some day.

YMMV.

-B-

Like I said, I wasn't expecting any mileage gain. Nor would I recommend it for that. After all everyone's foot is different! I tend to drive like a grandpa, no jackrabbit starts... For best economy. I was just reporting back my personal experience with the MAF. I have been reading about it for some time now and I am glad I finally ponied up for it. I like the result thus far!

Dave

 

[Beowulf]

Don't worry.

He's been threatening for ~6 years.

He will have to get his you-know-whats out of his wife's purse first............

Ouch! Et tu, Brute?

I'm waiting for Rick's turbo kit. Then I'll wait till the HG is done. Then I'll wait till the wife opens the purse. Then I'll have to beg someone to quit hiding the keys cause they will say I'm to frickin' old to drive.

-B-

 

[Beowulf]

for the longest time I couldn't write my name in the snow, got that back last year

Were you going for "Richard Andrew Bigelow" or just "Rick?"

I've never had problems with writing my name in the snow.

-B-

See?

 

[TrickyT]

Tech content on this thread seems to be waning. Has it been raining in NM or something? You guys seems to be getting giddy.

 

[Nemo]

A once happy customer

I have been hesitant to post this for a couple of weeks and I am still worried that I will get flamed for my post based on what I have seen so far.

So with that said let me state this. Any attempt to Negate my findings by jumping my credibility due to this post will be ignored. Any serious discussions I will take on since that is what this is for.

Background. I waited for a good period of time before obtaining the MAF sensor since I usually like to ensure that most people posting find good results for their application. I call it smart buying.

Note: Prior to the install I upgraded my exhaust to a 2.5 inch exhaust and had the catalytic converters replaced. After all I had approx. 180k on the truck. Seemed right since I was upgrading the exhaust due to numerous leaks and bashes on rocks.

Going forward to the early summer for us (later June timeframe?) I placed the order and received the MAF for my LC and installed it.
At first everything was perfect. Idle did seem to smooth out and performance was on par with what others said from their seat of the pants tests. I kept it on and ran it with no "known" issues. Perfect in my world.

Going forward two weeks, I reached out to cruiserdan for the 3.0 Fan Blade plus a new fan clutch and 10k CST for the upgrade there since I am supercharged wondering if that would help my cooling issues. I also went ahead and ordered new O2 sensors but set those aside. I was running hot enough now (July 2nd) that my AC kept shutting off. To my surprise that didn't help as much as I was hoping and went off to Mountain states toyota about two weeks after that to have the Thermostat replaced, radiator flushed, water pump checked out et al. to see if I could resolve my issues. Nothing. I replaced my O2 sensors and nothing. I started talking with known "smart people", Ben at Slee, Cruiserdan, Romer et al., not to call them out but to state I was getting frustrated and was getting ready to order the aux JDM fan to see what else could be done.

On my way to Moab in August with my buddy I encountered some heavy traffic coming up the first stretch of I70 going West and had to go from about 70mph to stop. Immediately my truck started to go to the red zone. I pulled off into the median, turned the heater on full blast and shut the AC off. Temps went down and I decided it wasn't worth the risk to continue that evening (Friday). On the way back to town my buddy asked me what the "hell" did you change to this truck to get it to behave this way. I explained all I did and he was simply smart enough to state, what does that MAF do? I explained in laments terms what I learned on the Web and he said, lets take it off and see what happens. We went back to my house and removed the offending bits and placed in the Stock MAF and reset everything. Well "guess what" I never had the cooling issues again. I would say I was relieved and took my trip to Moab and tryed numerous times to replicate the issues and the AC never shut off and the truck ran as it always did. So that was my "seat" of the pants findings.

Until now.
When I bought the new LC from Paul in California - dream truck 40th locked et al. I needed to put my current not new to me LC up for sale since I had a new one now. (now at 203k) In any case let me get to the skinny here. It took me about 2 mnths after buying my 40th to get my 6inch lift, shocks, panhards, and finally my nice navigation / sat radio, and Supercharger off blah blah blah. Cold winter and lots of weekends to get it done.

Now come March I posted my vehicle for sale and it sold quickly and the new owner was satified with all compression tests (forgot to mention that about about 170k I replaced the headgasket by Robbie). I decided that since I took the supercharger off and everything else was up to snuff that I would place the Landtank MAF back in so that the new owner would have the new toys and bits. Well when he took it to get it to pass emissions it failed with very high CO2 levels. We did some more cleaning and changed the oil et al., and still no pass. Well I talked to my buddy from earlier and he was like what changed. LT MAF? only change. My buddy races his old muscle cars at bandimere raceway and has a bunch of knowledge to how cars work esp. to fuel trim et al on older cars. He also just happened to have a Gas, Exhaust analyzer you place into the exhaust and then you can drive the vehicle around and monitor what is going on to the exhaust. This is how he changes his Carbs so he can run efficiently or lean as needed for racing.

So on to the exhaust analyzer:
We (new owner and myself w/ help from my buddy) performed numerous test and got very consistent data points on both the LT MAF and the factory MAF on the same vehicle (resetting each time). All tests were performed at idle and speeds between 10mph and 60mph.
Results:
- Disclaimer: This analyzer doesn't have numbers that reflect the exact Fuel trim but an average Fuel trim.

With the LT MAF we saw a consistent lean condition under idle - lean, under throttle - less lean, and during coast - very lean.

With the factory MAF we saw a more linear change to the conditions. Under throttle we saw it go to a more rich condition, under idle we saw the idle to sit in the "green zone" (optimal condition), and under coast we saw it go back to the optimal condition to just slightly lean.

Based on this practice I decided it was best to recoup my LT MAF and leave the factory MAF in esp. based that this looked very much in line with some of the concerns posted in this forum on this modification.

Going forward and done:
Went back to the emissions center and still failed but slightly. We decided that "I" replace the O2 sensors again (just replaced them less than a year ago) and the truck passed with flying colors .

All said and done I am displeased with this mod and it is what it is but if I have been running lean that explains my O2 sensors going bunk in such a short time, my vehicle running hot enough to shut the AC off, and causing emissions to fail. I went a good while with the MAF and was happy but it is obvious to me that you can run it for a while but the very least you will loose your O2 sensors and fail emissions. My check engine light did not come on for the O2 sensors et al., so it is a fact your O2 sensors can be bad enough to fail emissions but not turn the CEL on. By the way I passed the drive by emissions here in Colorado in August with no problems but it is obvious the drive by's aren't as effective as the actual roller tests.

By the way I wasn't done yet. Since the new owner needed to pass emissions on his vehicle so I had to take the factory MAF off of my new 40th to place into his. I then placed the LT MAF on mine knowing I would quickly remove it but I needed to get home so it is what it is. On my drive home and every time I would shut the truck off and start a new drive. My CEL would come on with a PO171 - Lean mixture Bank 1. I have the LT MAF off now and no CEL to date.

Thank you for listening to my rant but I figured a non-vendor needed to place this out there. All I say is run what you want and enjoy what LT has to offer. He is brilliant but I question this MOD.

 

[landtank]

If possible I'd like to get the sensor that you have for the housing. I set up a truck with my housing and had miss fires on cylinders 1,3 and 5 with very poor idling. I had another sensor laying around so I swapped that in and for more than 1000 miles the truck has run perfectly and has passed emissions.

I only designed the housing, Toyota supplies the sensor. and is subject to the same issues that any of their sensors are prone to.

edit: if you need another stock sensor I'd be happy to help you out with one.

 

[semlin]

nemo, assuming you installed it all correctly, it sounds like you had a failing and now bad toyota maf sensor in your land tank maf housing. the tip off is the way it performed in your new truck. if you are throwing a code every time you drive your truck right after you install the new maf then obviously the combo of the housing and sensor is not performing the same as it is for other people using the lt maf setup who are not throwing the code. i guess also the maf housing or hose could have a hole in it or a leak on the engine side that is allowing in more air in than it is metering.

if you swapped in another sensor and still get the problem that would be a different story. but based on what you report i doubt that would happen. that said, i would be very interested to get an exhaust gas sniffer test on a lt maf that is not showing any bad symptoms.

by the way, to break this down into hard facts

1) you overheated once on i70 when you slowed to a stop for traffic after a long run at highway speeds. you changed out the landtank maf have not seen that symptom since. that could have been caused by running lean but my comment would be that the same thing has happened with my stock vaf setup at a border lineup on a hot day. hot engine over hot pavement on a hot day with the ac on and no air circulation can create a feedback loop in the engine bay. if you have oversized tires on stock gearing and were running any small hills beforehand this can aggravate the problem because you may have been lugging the engine and making it run even hotter. i highly recommend the raventai temp gauge mod if you don't have one. the solution if that happens again is to pop the hood for a short time. even leaving it propped slightly open makes a big difference.

2) you reinstalled the lt maf to sell it, failed emissions, then failed by less afte tweaking other stuff, then failed by even less when you replaced the maf, then passed with new o2 sensors. again, could be what you say but it could also have been the o2 sensors from the beginning. it would be helpful if you provided the test data from each test.

3) an exhaust gas analyzer said the landtank maf was running consistently lean especially under idle or at idle rpm when coasting. it is not clear whether this was before or after the o2 sensors were swapped but it certainly sounds like a problem with the maf sensor.

4) your o2 sensors could not get you through emissions after less than a year. changing them fixed that. yes running lean can do that. it also may have cooked your cats.