I will be the first to agree that the Aussies do figure these trucks out faster. But it doesn't mean that they have this solution. I can't find where this style of frame brace/bracket design has been tried and tested over there.
JW Offroad Spare Tire Mount (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Max Nguyen
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Honestly it really hasn't been tested that much here either. The first one has more testing under its belt but only in certain environments. There needs to be some more long term R&D done across the country. Which is why I continue to waste money on popcorn.
I find it noteworthy that these trucks have been in hard environments for years, and there isn't an easily Googleable solution to add door-mounted tire carriers here in the U.S. I like that this is being explored, as this seems a sensible alternative to a rear swing out, but if the Aussies haven't figured this out yet...
Back door drop. Cracked door skin.
Just wondered if anyone has had and in any way resolved this. My back door has dropped about 10mm against the catch it locks against. The door skin around the bottom hinge has cracked open. Can find quite a few instances of this on Pradopoint but no suggestions of how to bodge a repair other...www.landcruiserclub.net
Prado 120 Rear door sagging-Solution?
??? Can somebody give me advice and solution to solve this, apparently common problem?www.4x4community.co.za
The only solution to the sagging door/torn door skin I've seen come out of the Aussie community is replacing the door or putting washers under the hinge.
I haven't seen anything about creating a brace that mounts to the frame to support the load carried by the door.
Both this and the Becky are completely different sollutions.
Further, not to bash the Aussies but I've never thought to myself, "Well, if the Aussies haven't solved (insert problem here) yet, then we're all doomed".
There's a lot of great engineering that comes out of this country and I'm confident that a solution to the door issue exists and just because the Aussies haven't found it doesn't mean some guy in CA in his garage wont.
I personally think supporting the door is a more solid sollution then supporting the tire. If the tire to body mount starts to oval out or sag, that stress will be transferred to the door hinges and seams. If the door is ultimately supported and the tire to door starts to sag, only the holes through the door skin will be stressed.
I'm keeping the faith alive on this!
100% agree, just surprised, since the Prado seems to have a long history with rear door mounts. I want this to work, as this seems like a more practical way for me to mount a 285 spare tire.
I just don’t want to be part of the product development and testing
I just don’t want to be part of the product development and testing
i think the idea is that the prado has been sold in australia (and other places) before it started showing up on our shores... probably going back to the 1990's with the 90-series, and most of those had door mounted spares. in addition to that, we here in the states didn't really start using the 120-series as anything more than a grocery-getter until recently. so i think the idea is really more that the aussies have a 20 year head start on trying to problem solve the saggy door issue!
OK ENGINEERS, help me figure this out in my brain...
from my very limited research, and lack of engineering knowledge, i've mostly surmised that the 120-series door failures tend to occur at the body skin NEAR the latch (on the door itself). so it's not really the hinges that are failing... just the sheetmetal of the door.
now, when the door is closed, it's secured on the right hand side by the hinges and secured on the left hand side by the latch. so when the door is closed, the door itself CAN'T move much because there is support on both sides. since there is theoretically NO, or little, movement when the door is closed, can't we assume that the sheet-metal/skin degradation occurs when the door is swinging open and closed, and not when the door is securely closed? if that's the case, then isn't the becky support tongue thing a moot point?
i guess in my mind... as soon as you open that door and swing it outward, you lose a significant portion of support... and the door itself becomes a lever, with a lot of weight pulling it downward. you do that enough times and with added weight, the door skin will eventually fail.
again, i'm not an engineer and i have zero experience with this... but just thinking out loud.
(AND APOLOGIES TO THE OP AND JW... WE'RE WANDERING A BIT OFF TOPIC HERE)
from my very limited research, and lack of engineering knowledge, i've mostly surmised that the 120-series door failures tend to occur at the body skin NEAR the latch (on the door itself). so it's not really the hinges that are failing... just the sheetmetal of the door.
now, when the door is closed, it's secured on the right hand side by the hinges and secured on the left hand side by the latch. so when the door is closed, the door itself CAN'T move much because there is support on both sides. since there is theoretically NO, or little, movement when the door is closed, can't we assume that the sheet-metal/skin degradation occurs when the door is swinging open and closed, and not when the door is securely closed? if that's the case, then isn't the becky support tongue thing a moot point?
i guess in my mind... as soon as you open that door and swing it outward, you lose a significant portion of support... and the door itself becomes a lever, with a lot of weight pulling it downward. you do that enough times and with added weight, the door skin will eventually fail.
again, i'm not an engineer and i have zero experience with this... but just thinking out loud.
(AND APOLOGIES TO THE OP AND JW... WE'RE WANDERING A BIT OFF TOPIC HERE)
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australian prado forum discussions:
Rear door hinges - Toyota Prado How To's, Technical Information & Reviews
Everything related to the body, paintwork, recovery & jack points.
www.pradopoint.com.au
Cracked weld seam rear door - Toyota Prado How To's, Technical Information & Reviews
Discuss any other areas about your 4x4 Toyota Prado 120.
www.pradopoint.com.au
Its the added weight on the door sheet metal that causes the tearing. While the door is closed and supported by the hinges and the latch there is still a small amount of movement especially on washboard roads. That small amount of movement with the weight of a tire on the rear is most likely the cause of the tearing on the skin and the sag in the hinges.
By supporting the mount the bottom you take away the stress on the skin and the hinges. So in theory ACC hopes this is the solution. JW is following suit after commentary but felt from their tests it was not needed. Time will tell now.
Here is my take on the seam splitting issue, having actually observed it on my own vehicle:
When the door is opened and it slides out of the latch guide it will drop about an 1/8" and open smoothly. There is no movement of seam split noted during the closing or opening sequence of the door. The door lines up fine when closed. Adjusting the hinges does nothing to help the sag, perhaps washers would, but I never cared to mess with it. Once the door is opened and against the stop, by pushing it slightly more open it pivots and the seam opens up and makes a pop. I too am 99% convinced the seam fails when the door slams open uncontrolled or is levered beyond the stop. Adding a spare tire to the door will only increase this effect. I have not tried, but maybe a gas strut would help, I don't know for sure though.
When the door is opened and it slides out of the latch guide it will drop about an 1/8" and open smoothly. There is no movement of seam split noted during the closing or opening sequence of the door. The door lines up fine when closed. Adjusting the hinges does nothing to help the sag, perhaps washers would, but I never cared to mess with it. Once the door is opened and against the stop, by pushing it slightly more open it pivots and the seam opens up and makes a pop. I too am 99% convinced the seam fails when the door slams open uncontrolled or is levered beyond the stop. Adding a spare tire to the door will only increase this effect. I have not tried, but maybe a gas strut would help, I don't know for sure though.
right! okay, this makes sense to me... it's maybe not the MOTION of opening/closing the door, but the stress on the seem when it gets slammed all the way open. but if this is the case, don't you agree that the "tongue" support in the closed position won't really do much when it comes to seem failure?
i think the tongue support will help with alleviating stress on the sheetmetal where the mount is located, but not with the traditional prado door failure at the hinge/seem.
i think the tongue support will help with alleviating stress on the sheetmetal where the mount is located, but not with the traditional prado door failure at the hinge/seem.
That's a good point. I installed a gas strut on my door. Its worse. But what it has done is taught me to hold the door as it opens until in the full open position. That will keep the door from over extending but so far only me and my wife know to do that. I need a strut with less overall pressure or add more weight like a tire and it would slow the strut down.
I can't comment on if the tongue support will help or not, I suppose it can't hurt. Interesting on the gas strut as well, I figured that would help the situation.
I have the gas strut and I never let the door swing open. I did it once when i first installed the strut and it seemed pretty violent.
I always guide the door open but my wife seems to forget every time. I thought about adding a limiting strap near the strut.
I can definitely see swinging the door open repeatedly as a cause of damage.
My truck will be monster lined soon enough so I may just run another bead along that weld and add some plate behind the hinges as insurance.
I'm tempted to run it as is to see if it fails though. I can always reweld it if it does. That's kind of why I'm not too worried about testing this.
I always guide the door open but my wife seems to forget every time. I thought about adding a limiting strap near the strut.
I can definitely see swinging the door open repeatedly as a cause of damage.
My truck will be monster lined soon enough so I may just run another bead along that weld and add some plate behind the hinges as insurance.
I'm tempted to run it as is to see if it fails though. I can always reweld it if it does. That's kind of why I'm not too worried about testing this.
yah... i guess when it comes to the 120-series door failure and more specifically aftermarket spare-tire door mounts, it comes down to a few possible weak points:
1. door seam - from my perspective, this seems to be the most frequent issue... perhaps caused by the leverage put on the door when opening "violently"
2. hinges - i'm sure there have been some incidents, but it seems like the cracking happens near the hinges, but not the hinges themselves
3. aftermarket mount / sheetmetal - you're hanging a 70+ lb wheel/tire off the back of your rig, mounted directly to the back door sheet metal... could there be failure? will there be failure? maybe... at this moment in time, i haven't seen any, but it's early when it comes to JW and ACC mounts, so who knows. i would think you're way more likely to have problems with the door seam failure than with the sheetmetal/mount, but admittedly, what do i know?
SO IF I FOCUS ON THE DOOR SEAM ISSUE... and as it was mentioned above... how do you get the back door to NOT swing out violently when opening? so, my wife has a 150-series (2015 GX460), and i dont have specs, just experience... the back door on that thing is HEAVY. overall, it's bigger with pop-up rear glass. but it also has a larger more sophisticated strut system that in most cases doesn't allow the door to swing as freely. maybe that's the answer for 120-series?
1. door seam - from my perspective, this seems to be the most frequent issue... perhaps caused by the leverage put on the door when opening "violently"
2. hinges - i'm sure there have been some incidents, but it seems like the cracking happens near the hinges, but not the hinges themselves
3. aftermarket mount / sheetmetal - you're hanging a 70+ lb wheel/tire off the back of your rig, mounted directly to the back door sheet metal... could there be failure? will there be failure? maybe... at this moment in time, i haven't seen any, but it's early when it comes to JW and ACC mounts, so who knows. i would think you're way more likely to have problems with the door seam failure than with the sheetmetal/mount, but admittedly, what do i know?
SO IF I FOCUS ON THE DOOR SEAM ISSUE... and as it was mentioned above... how do you get the back door to NOT swing out violently when opening? so, my wife has a 150-series (2015 GX460), and i dont have specs, just experience... the back door on that thing is HEAVY. overall, it's bigger with pop-up rear glass. but it also has a larger more sophisticated strut system that in most cases doesn't allow the door to swing as freely. maybe that's the answer for 120-series?
I agree with you guys that the load on the body is more with the door open than closed due to the latch supporting the load. Would adding a soft stop /snubber to catch the door before maxing out the hinges be a possible solution?
With that said, I would probably avoid adding any weight to the door than just the spare.
To correct a post earlier in the thread, the Prado 150 are still available with factory door mounted spare.
With that said, I would probably avoid adding any weight to the door than just the spare.
To correct a post earlier in the thread, the Prado 150 are still available with factory door mounted spare.
The only way to make this stronger (in the door)...is to rework how the door works. The sheetmetal and hinge attachment and how it supports needs to change. Think a frame with a shell. If you were to improve the hinges and attachment to the body...then extend a framework through the door, then attach the tire carrier to that. You would beef up the critical pivot points.
This is all I can come up with 
Prime-Line Storm Door Protector Chain and Spring, Zinc Plated K 5026 - The Home Depot
This Storm Door Protector Chain and Spring by Prime-Line Products helps to protect wood and metal out-swinging screen doors from damage when excessive force swings them open, like gusts of strong winds
www.homedepot.com
I was just thinking... What about installing Expandable Braided Sleeving over the gas strut to cushion/limit operation? With the current gas strut setups, the door picks up quite a bit of speed before it reaches the limit violently if you don't hold the door. I have some laying around that I will experiment with if I get time. Not totally sure how to secure it yet so that it doesnt just slip ff or rip. But i think it would be decent stuff to use since it expands and contracts but shouldnt rot out like a bungee, and should stay neater without binding up in the door jamb.
Amazon product ASIN B071WF5NTN
EDIT*
Well, that wasnt as successful asI would have liked. The braided sleeve tries to stop the door pretty abruptly, and the door's momentum just deformed/elongated the sleeve.
The other option would be to stuff something into the sleeve that would have to be compressed as the sleeve is lengthened and map provide some more even resistance...
Amazon product ASIN B071WF5NTN
EDIT*
Well, that wasnt as successful asI would have liked. The braided sleeve tries to stop the door pretty abruptly, and the door's momentum just deformed/elongated the sleeve.
The other option would be to stuff something into the sleeve that would have to be compressed as the sleeve is lengthened and map provide some more even resistance...
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