Isuzu powered FJ140

[crashmonk]

My vgt is controlled by a crude but effective spring. I originally tried a waste gate actuator(like the picture but not mine) opened by drive pressure but boost was limited to 15 psi because it opened too soon.

After reading, I just attached a hardware store spring to the collar lever. This holds it in "quick spool mode" until enough exhaust pressure(not drive pressure) builds and pushes the collar further open(into wide open position not surging?), against the spring.

So, light throttle- high turbine velocity
Heavy throttle- high turbine flow

I'll admit, I don't really know anything about turbo maps or surging, but I do know this turbo MOVES AIR. Compounds would probably produce better results, but at what cost? I gave 300 bucks for my sooted up VGT. Only downside I see is high drive PSI.

If I were smart enough I would have figured out the exhaust brake by now!

 

[crashmonk]

Bigger is not better with turbos. They need to be the right size or both fuel economy and drivability turn to custard.

Is 20 mpg and a 1500 rpm spool custard?? I would imagine that 4.3 is good on fuel

 

[gerg]

I was toying with the idea once of doing what yiur doing with a VGT, but as Dougal said the compressor on that thing is gigantic. It's like an hx40 pretty much. Running a compressor and turbine that large will definately push your drive pressures up. You have to choke up the vanes to spool it and it runs with low effeciency which adds up together against yiu. All that being said your experiencing good performance and economy so that is what really counts. My hat is off to you. I don't know if that turbo is compatable with an hx35 compressor and cover. Might be worth checking out. There is an IHI turbo off a 4h1k engine that is vnt but has a 50/65 compressor with a nicer sized turbine which would be a better size for you. They aren't uncommon.

 

[kowalski]

I'm going to be playing with the TD04HL-19T for a bit before giving up. Gerg kindly provided me with a larger turbine for it (7cm vs the 6cm I currently have) which hopefully will make the difference.

 

[Dougal]

Is 20 mpg and a 1500 rpm spool custard?? I would imagine that 4.3 is good on fuel

Depends what you mean by "spool". I have a HE221 mapped out for a 4BG1T and it's completely clean, cool and providing 20psi by 1500rpm. Over 30psi by 2000rpm.
At 1500rpm and 20psi it is pulling ~15 lb/min of air.

I don't have a map for the 60mm compressor on the HE351. But I do have a Holset map for a 58mm version. It is well in surge at that point so operating with poor efficiency and the potential for compressor damage. This is at sea-level. As you go higher it gets worse.

When running at poor compressor efficiency you need more drive pressure to run the turbo. So it reduces torque and power, reduces fuel economy, restricts engine breathing and reduces the exhaust flow available to run the turbo. Basically everything gets worse.

For a ~6 litre engine the HE351 range is great. But not for anything around the 4 litre mark.

 

[crashmonk]

This sounds all well and correct. If I had the opportunity to change my compressor over to the 341 would that be a good idea? Again I know jack about turbos! I just know a lot of people run the vgt with good results.

I am curious if what you're saying still applies to the modified diesel. By that I just mean turning up the fuel. I believe I maxed out my td06(not td04 oops) when I fueled up enough where my smoke wouldn't clean up 100%. That's the point where you look for more turbo am I right? I thought of the 351 as an updated hx35 I guess.

What should Kowalski look for when he decides to turn up the fuel?

 

[gerg]

Compounds. Tuff to ask one turbo to spool early, work well through the whole rev range and still boost like 40lbs.

 

[Dougal]

This sounds all well and correct. If I had the opportunity to change my compressor over to the 341 would that be a good idea? Again I know jack about turbos! I just know a lot of people run the vgt with good results.

I am curious if what you're saying still applies to the modified diesel. By that I just mean turning up the fuel. I believe I maxed out my td06(not td04 oops) when I fueled up enough where my smoke wouldn't clean up 100%. That's the point where you look for more turbo am I right? I thought of the 351 as an updated hx35 I guess.

What should Kowalski look for when he decides to turn up the fuel?

There are many things to match up with a new turbo. On the compressor side you need enough flow, enough boost capacity and enough surge resistance. Then you're looking for the best efficiency once you've met those. Unfortunately those factors play off against each other.

Then once you've got the compressor side sorted, you need to match it to a turbine that will deliver the power that compressor needs in the rpm ranges you need.

Sometimes you get lucky and can find exactly what you need (TD04HL-19T, HE221 and HX30 super are all very good to about 38 lb/min flow). Sometimes you have to build a turbo that'll do what you want (Gturbo did this) and sometimes you can't find much at all.

Past the three mentioned above there's a big hole in suitable diesel turbos until you hit the ~6 litre displacement size. So the best way to fill that gap is with compound turbos. A small one to get it out of bed and working. Then a bigger one which will start working once the small turbo has increased airflow and exhaust flow enough.

But first I think Mike has his exhaust manifold upside down. The ports don't line up when you do that on these engines.

 

[kowalski]

There are many things to match up with a new turbo. On the compressor side you need enough flow, enough boost capacity and enough surge resistance. Then you're looking for the best efficiency once you've met those. Unfortunately those factors play off against each other.

Then once you've got the compressor side sorted, you need to match it to a turbine that will deliver the power that compressor needs in the rpm ranges you need.

Sometimes you get lucky and can find exactly what you need (TD04HL-19T, HE221 and HX30 super are all very good to about 38 lb/min flow). Sometimes you have to build a turbo that'll do what you want (Gturbo did this) and sometimes you can't find much at all.

Past the three mentioned above there's a big hole in suitable diesel turbos until you hit the ~6 litre displacement size. So the best way to fill that gap is with compound turbos. A small one to get it out of bed and working. Then a bigger one which will start working once the small turbo has increased airflow and exhaust flow enough.

But first I think Mike has his exhaust manifold upside down. The ports don't line up when you do that on these engines.

Hey Dougal,

For some reason my account at 4btswaps has had the password changed, and I cannot see a "Forgot my password" link....

As far as the exhaust manifold, it is upside down. I honestly have not had the manifold off since this was done, however it was "port matched" after getting flipped.


I have been busy with other stuff going on, but I have the 7cm turbine housing that I am going to try installing one of these weekends as well as new couplings for the intercooler pipes.

 

[doug720]

The swap looks good!

On the 4BTswaps password, mine changed also. They want a longer, more secure password with letters, numbers and symbols.

The site emailed me a new password to access my account. After logging in, I made a new password.

 

[Dougal]

Hey Dougal,

For some reason my account at 4btswaps has had the password changed, and I cannot see a "Forgot my password" link....

As far as the exhaust manifold, it is upside down. I honestly have not had the manifold off since this was done, however it was "port matched" after getting flipped.


I have been busy with other stuff going on, but I have the 7cm turbine housing that I am going to try installing one of these weekends as well as new couplings for the intercooler pipes.

Good to hear they made the ports work. But that's about 8mm offset so they must have taken a lot of metal out to make them line up! Greg said something about a 2.5" exhaust. Might need to upsize that at some point.

The new passwords at 4btswaps are a PITA and they won't say why it needs such securtiy (or illusion of such security). I've asked the overlords if they can provide a link. Because I can't easily find one either!

 

[kowalski]

Good to hear they made the ports work. But that's about 8mm offset so they must have taken a lot of metal out to make them line up! Greg said something about a 2.5" exhaust. Might need to upsize that at some point.

The new passwords at 4btswaps are a PITA and they won't say why it needs such securtiy (or illusion of such security). I've asked the overlords if they can provide a link. Because I can't easily find one either!

Very interesting about the Port matching...

I have a spare manifold... I wonder if I kept a spare head? Would be nice to mock up and see what I'm actually dealing with...

I'm not sure where I can route a larger exhaust with the suspension geometry. Would need to dump before the rear tires if I wanted to go bigger then 2.5"...

Sounds like I have a lot of work left on odds an ends... I'm going to focus on sorting those things out along with this turbine housing and see how things go.

With regards to 4btswaps, it won't let me change my password and it won't let me update my password and it won't tell me what my new password is... I can't contact the admin either...

 

[kowalski]

The swap looks good!

On the 4BTswaps password, mine changed also. They want a longer, more secure password with letters, numbers and symbols.

The site emailed me a new password to access my account. After logging in, I made a new password.

Aha!

I'll check my spam folder.

 

[kowalski]

Update after more driving.

In cooler temperatures, or while it is raining, egt's do not climb above 900. If the motor is relatively cold on a hot day, the same result until the motor is hot after driving for a while.

When it is hot and the motor is hot, egt's are at 1,000 on a long hill if holding speed say 100km/h, and climb to 1,200+ if accelerating up a long hill. I cannot use all the throttle at this point or egt's will keep going up.

On the last trip, a 750km round trip success! It was hot, and then we drove into a thunder storm. We were climbing a lot of mountains. When it was hot I couldn't use all the throttle due to egt issues. When it is raining, I it seems I can use all of the throttle and my egt's won't climb above 1,000. My theory is the rain is increasing the heat transfer effectiveness of the inter cooler thus resulting in cooler denser air, which seems to put the system past a certain threshold of effectiveness that allows for maintainable egt's.

 

[Dougal]

Is your intake getting cool, outside, air?

 

[crashmonk]

Nature's water injection baby!

To be clear, you get 1000 degrees just maintaining speed? What psi is your boost at in this situation? My diesel stays between 3-400C maintaining speed hills included. Yes I'm in America and bought a Celsius Guage. No cold air intake here.

 

[kowalski]

Nature's water injection baby!

To be clear, you get 1000 degrees just maintaining speed? What psi is your boost at in this situation? My diesel stays between 3-400C maintaining speed hills included. Yes I'm in America and bought a Celsius Guage. No cold air intake here.

I am making around 15-20 psi maintaining speed on said long hill. If I floor it it will make 29-30psi at current fuel setting.

I hit 1,000 degrees on a hot day, °F not °C... with a hot motor maintaining speed up a long steep hill, correct. In the early spring in the rain I could floor it up the same hills and my egt's wouldn't go above 900°F, accelerate from a stop to 100km/h up steep hills no problem.

My intake pulls air from the factory location inside the fender. The fender gets fresh air from the front of the truck, but i'm guessing it wasn't intended to supply as much air as I am pulling from that location. A snorkel has been suggested a number of times. the inlet for my turbo is also near the exhaust manifold, if I clock the turbo I can put more distance between the intake and the exhaust manifold, I am going to try that. I tried wrapping some tin foil around the intake boot, and it actually did make a bit of a difference.

It seems to me that I should be focusing on finding cooler air, and getting hot air out of the engine bay. I saw a post about making a under-tray to increase airflow out of the engine bay, which would lower overall engine bay temps and help with heat soak after the engine is warm... in theory.

I burned about 75-80L of fuel on a 750km round trip that was probably 50% off road, which is about ~ 21 mpg I think.

 

[crashmonk]

Idk, I gotta wonder if your stock turbo is just not keeping up. Your air is just too hot intercooled or not. 15-20 psi just to maintain a hill sounds like a lot. Not enough cfm I would guess.

I might hit 10-15psi up a pretty good hill. That is just maintaining not accelerating.

Time for a new snail!

I have my stock td06 if you're interested

 

[kowalski]

I am making around 15-20 psi maintaining speed on said long hill. If I floor it it will make 29-30psi at current fuel setting.

I hit 1,000 degrees on a hot day, °F not °C... with a hot motor maintaining speed up a long steep hill, correct. In the early spring in the rain I could floor it up the same hills and my egt's wouldn't go above 900°F, accelerate from a stop to 100km/h up steep hills no problem.

My intake pulls air from the factory location inside the fender. The fender gets fresh air from the front of the truck, but i'm guessing it wasn't intended to supply as much air as I am pulling from that location. A snorkel has been suggested a number of times. the inlet for my turbo is also near the exhaust manifold, if I clock the turbo I can put more distance between the intake and the exhaust manifold, I am going to try that. I tried wrapping some tin foil around the intake boot, and it actually did make a bit of a difference.

It seems to me that I should be focusing on finding cooler air, and getting hot air out of the engine bay. I saw a post about making a under-tray to increase airflow out of the engine bay, which would lower overall engine bay temps and help with heat soak after the engine is warm... in theory.

I burned about 75-80L of fuel on a 750km round trip that was probably 50% off road, which is about ~ 21 mpg I think.

Idk, I gotta wonder if your stock turbo is just not keeping up. Your air is just too hot intercooled or not. 15-20 psi just to maintain a hill sounds like a lot. Not enough cfm I would guess.

I might hit 10-15psi up a pretty good hill. That is just maintaining not accelerating.

Time for a new snail!

I have my stock td06 if you're interested

Honestly, my hill maintain boost numbers are from memory, i've never really looked at the boost gauge in this scenario and I am talking pretty steep hills and maintaining speed meaning 100-110km/h holding 5th up any hill on the sea to sky. On the highway on flat ground @100km/h I make around 8 psi

Turbo is not "stock" but it is the first attempt at getting the right turbo on the motor.

I will definitely agree that the turbo does not keep up if I floor it and it's hot. But it will keep up if I floor it when it's cold or raining... I'll agree that I am at the limit of this turbo, but the fact that the temperature outside puts me into the potential danger zone makes me think other factors are at work here.

I have a 10% larger exhaust housing that I am going to try soon enough, currently dealing with trying to sell the house though...

 

[Dougal]

Nature's water injection baby!

To be clear, you get 1000 degrees just maintaining speed? What psi is your boost at in this situation? My diesel stays between 3-400C maintaining speed hills included. Yes I'm in America and bought a Celsius Guage. No cold air intake here.

If you're getting 300-400C up hills then your probe isn't working. It's either in a cold spot or there is something badly wrong. Even stock diesels get around 600C at full load.

I run 750C sustained for minutes on end and my engine has yet to give a damn. I even found out I'm much faster uphill than a 1HD-FT powered 80. Even non intercooled I'm not heat-soaking. Which suggests it's an intake and/or airflow issue for Mike. His turbo has plenty of spare capacity.

How about a bigger exhaust while you're under there Mike?