In need of a rebuilt distributor for my 1985 FJ60. (1 Viewer)

[distributorguy]

I don't just have a Sun machine, I have 13 of them and a Snap-On Distrib-U-Scope. That photo of a 504 is the "Cadillac" of Sun machines. I'm currently using that one, plus I have two others, and a lot of times I use the 400 which is more compact and can be "hotrodded" for a higher peak rpm and a more precise signal, so I can tune distributors like the one we ran at the Bonneville salt flats turning over 10,000 rpms in a Datsun pickup.

I'd be interested in laying my hands on the distributor Cardone said wasn't rebuildable. It likely just needed a shaft bushing and they have no provisions to actually make one. I only find 2-3 distributors a year are not rebuildable out of 1200-1500 that I personally rebuild.

 

[joebattle1]

I don't just have a Sun machine, I have 13 of them and a Snap-On Distrib-U-Scope. That photo of a 504 is the "Cadillac" of Sun machines. I'm currently using that one, plus I have two others, and a lot of times I use the 400 which is more compact and can be "hotrodded" for a higher peak rpm and a more precise signal, so I can tune distributors like the one we ran at the Bonneville salt flats turning over 10,000 rpms in a Datsun pickup.

I'd be interested in laying my hands on the distributor Cardone said wasn't rebuildable. It likely just needed a shaft bushing and they have no provisions to actually make one. I only find 2-3 distributors a year are not rebuildable out of 1200-1500 that I personally rebuild.

Someone get this man a Land Cruiser. You my friend are a great addition to this little car club we’ve got going here. Thanks for joining to explain yourself and your insites. My guess is you’re about to see a ton of these in your mailbox if you can successfully rebuild this Vac adv. hell... after reading your post... I want mine rebuilt too.

 

[FJ60Seth]

I’m out of town for the next week. As soon as I get back I’m sending mine to Jeff.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone knows of another source other than cruiserparts.net who offers OEM rebuilt distributor for the 4.2 liter 6 cylinder engine? I've tried all my local parts distributors (Napa, O'Reilly, Autozone, etc with no luck and none available). My current distributor has bad vacuum advances and has moisture damage and Cardone has declared it unrebuildable. Maybe one of you has one that you are willing to sell? The $450 dollar price tag from cruiserparts.net is a little more than I hoped to spend.
Thanks,
Al

TLC Performance rebuilds the 81-87 distributors, for either stock or desmogged applications. The normal rebuild is about ~$200, but that does not include a new vac advance assembly. Expect to pay another $225 for a new unobtainium vac canister. All of that assumes there is some kind of core dissy to rebuild. Email me at my 'mud name at gmail dot com for more info.

If Cruiserparts will sell a rebuilt dissy with new advancer for $450, without a core, that is a fair price.

FWIW, what one shop considers non-rebuildable, may be just another job to a different shop.
Here's pics of a recent FJ60 dissy that the local garage said couldn't be rebuilt due to moisture damage. It was rebuilt, recurved, reinstalled and ran perfect.

 

[FJ40Jim]

That photo of a 504 is the "Cadillac" of Sun machines.

My old man likes cadillac. Can we say it is the Land Cruiser of Sun machines? Sturdy, effective, reliable... My 504 is from 1966-ish and still runs perfect.

I'd be interested in laying my hands on the distributor Cardone said wasn't rebuildable. It likely just needed a shaft bushing and they have no provisions to actually make one. I only find 2-3 distributors a year are not rebuildable out of 1200-1500 that I personally rebuild.

The OP's dissy is the 81-newer style which has a 6203 sealed bearing instead of a bizarro metric bushing, so that part is easy, even for cardone.
Most likely the advance plate was a ball of rust and they have no parts to service it.

By looking at the vac unit, they are not opposing diaphragms. I'm guessing both advance the timing, but can verify when I get inside one. That would mean one has the ability to add MORE advance than the first one at full pull, so its like a stepped timing curve in the mechanical advance: primary and a secondary side with a stronger spring for additional timing.

Correct, they are both advance, but there is a primary advance and a hi-altitude advance. The hi-alt is a cage that contains the travel of the primary. When vac is applied to the hi-alt, the cage shifts 6-7* in the advance direction.

More importantly is rebuilding and recurving the distributor so your engine timing is far more precise throughout the entire usable rpm range.

Egg-zackery! The 40 year old grease has gummed up the centrifugal advance, the governor pin bushing is evaporated, so the idle timing is off, the grease on the vac breaker plate is gummed, so the vac is slow...

I'd bet every one of your distributors is off by at least 10 degrees somewhere in the rpm range, even if Cardone cleaned and lubed it for you (they don't even know what a rebuild is.) They're butchers.

Amen! Preach it, brotha!

They smash all the parts together in a tumbler until they're clean then pack the works with grease where no grease belongs, just so it feels tight.

Let's not forget the sandblasting of precision seal surfaces & carb bodies, and the shot blasting of die cast alloy dissy & alternator castings. I would say it is job security for me, but they fawk things up so bad sometimes that a rebuild that was merely difficult before actually becomes impossible.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Unobtainable vac adv? I was under the impression that if the person in need of a rebuild sent you his/hers and both ports were bunk then you couldn’t repair? Or do you have a stash of them that folks aren’t letting on and that’s why they refer to you as a god?

 

[RodrigzCrzr]

I have an extra dizzy with a vacuum advance on it. I’m willing to ship to you.

 

[distributorguy]

It sounds like at least a couple are on their way here. This is my busy season, so I'll post pics in a couple weeks when I dig in and figure something out.

I think the awful surface finish from Cardone isn't a matter of shot blasting. They dump all the alloy and steel parts into an abrasive tank (picture a huge vibratory tumbler with granite chunks and cleaning solution) and let them all smash around together for hours. In the morning they fish out the parts and re-assemble with lots of grease and one or two new advance springs from a Chevy.

I use a mass finishing machine designed for polishing titanium implants like hip or knee replacements. Its purpose-built with 4 small compartments so that one housing or one shaft goes through the polishing process alone, unscathed. The photo is a 1929 Plymouth Delco before and after, 1 hour time lapse. After these photos is when the real rebuild starts. The cleaning process is only the first step in the process of making your trucks run better.

BTW, I'm about to finally purchase the Series 2A Land Rover I've wanted for decades, and it'll receive a new (upgraded rebuilt) 4 cylinder 3.7L Aluminum block engine right after it arrives!

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

It sounds like at least a couple are on their way here. This is my busy season, so I'll post pics in a couple weeks when I dig in and figure something out.

I think the awful surface finish from Cardone isn't a matter of shot blasting. They dump all the alloy and steel parts into an abrasive tank (picture a huge vibratory tumbler with granite chunks and cleaning solution) and let them all smash around together for hours. In the morning they fish out the parts and re-assemble with lots of grease and one or two new advance springs from a Chevy.

I use a mass finishing machine designed for polishing titanium implants like hip or knee replacements. Its purpose-built with 4 small compartments so that one housing or one shaft goes through the polishing process alone, unscathed. The photo is a 1929 Plymouth Delco before and after, 1 hour time lapse. After these photos is when the real rebuild starts. The cleaning process is only a sart to making your trucks run better.
BTW, I'm about to finally purchase the Series 2A Land Rover I've wanted for decades, and it'll receive a new (upgraded rebuilt) 4 cylinder 3.7L Aluminum block engine right after it arrives!View attachment 1962302

I just shipped mine out yesterday w/ a NOS vacuum advance.

 

[FJ40Jim]

I was under the impression that if the person in need of a rebuild sent you his/hers and both ports were bunk then you couldn’t repair? Or do you have a stash of them?

At this point there is not a reliable way to repair these canisters. There is a dwindling stash of NOS parts remaining, so they are only sold & installed if absolutely necessary.

 

[Spike Strip]

FWIW, @Racer65 (www.cityracerllc.com) was working on having these Vacuum Advancer units repop'd...

Roger, status ?

 

[distributorguy]

I'm hoping to make an adapter for tooling I already made to be able to rebuild them. The other option is to buy and modify the existing double-vac units so the phasing is correct (modify the arm length). Its not a big deal. I already rebuild at least 20 vac units a week for other applications that are NLA.

 

[onemanarmy]

It sounds like at least a couple are on their way here. This is my busy season, so I'll post pics in a couple weeks when I dig in and figure something out.

I think the awful surface finish from Cardone isn't a matter of shot blasting. They dump all the alloy and steel parts into an abrasive tank (picture a huge vibratory tumbler with granite chunks and cleaning solution) and let them all smash around together for hours. In the morning they fish out the parts and re-assemble with lots of grease and one or two new advance springs from a Chevy.

I use a mass finishing machine designed for polishing titanium implants like hip or knee replacements. Its purpose-built with 4 small compartments so that one housing or one shaft goes through the polishing process alone, unscathed. The photo is a 1929 Plymouth Delco before and after, 1 hour time lapse. After these photos is when the real rebuild starts. The cleaning process is only the first step in the process of making your trucks run better.

BTW, I'm about to finally purchase the Series 2A Land Rover I've wanted for decades, and it'll receive a new (upgraded rebuilt) 4 cylinder 3.7L Aluminum block engine right after it arrives!View attachment 1962302

what 3.7 liter 4 cylinder? The Mercruiser?

 

[distributorguy]

Yep! Alloy head, ceramic coated pistons, Ceramic coated exhaust manifold, and likely a FiTech 2bbl system.

 

[FJ40Jim]

FWIW, @Racer65 (www.cityracerllc.com) was working on having these Vacuum Advancer units repop'd...
Roger, status ?

I have a preproduction sample from him. It didn't work right and I need to pop it open to see what's going on inside it so the production version can be improved. Thanks for the reminder.
Sorry Roger, this got shoved to back burner for a while.

 

[distributorguy]

So I've gotten to the root of the vacuum advance dilemma...
I just rebuilt an FJ60 distributor circa 1987. The mechanical advance curve os so far out of tune, the dual vac unit becomes a bigger tuning aid than it should be. The outer vac port advances 4 degrees (8 at the crank due to the timing chain doubling effect), and the inner vac unit pushes that up to 10 (20 at the crank). An engine in good tune will respond best to the outer vac unit being used, while a lower compression heavily used engine will generally like some extra timing to make up for lost compression. Personally, I'd chose one or the other, and no matter what - get the distributor recurved to perform well. It will give you stronger throttle response, better fuel economy, and a lot more pleasurable driving experience. Then you can stop worrying about the vac unit so much.

In the mean time, I need to make a tool AND an internal component in order to rebuild the dual vac units. This won't help the trucks run much better, but recurving the distributors WILL. Its not really a DIY endeavor, due to the tooling, springs, and test equipment required. I'll move forward with the vac rebuilds, but can anyone tell me what the aftermarket single vac units offer for advance? Progress won't be quick. I'm now in the middle of my busy season.

 

[Bear]

Some of us would simply like to buy just the dual advancer alone, to have as a back up for an already good distributor. And some already have recurved distributors that once had functioning advancers that now are failing or will be soon. This is a problem that will eventually affect all of the original advancers.

So, this could either be a rebuilt advancer (with or without a core), or a brand new unit. Something priced in a reasonable range, rather than the $400 seen on Ebay, or even $200, for one of the $50 ones found at the Texas parts house. Or, as much as Chinese/Asian parts are ridiculed, perhaps someone with connections there might find one already available--while not the best of choices, certainly better than an OEM that no longer works.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

can anyone tell me what the aftermarket single vac units offer for advance?

I personally might be talking out of my ass but I don’t think many of us WILL know that answer unless they actually have an older Toyota sedan that runs the single unit. Here and there I see the old sedans for sale, next time I do, I’ll make an attempt to ask in a pm. Jim might know the answer, maybe...

 

[Spike Strip]

... can anyone tell me what the aftermarket single vac units offer for advance? Progress won't be quick. I'm now in the middle of my busy season.

I don't have any way to verify this (I don't have the hard data or a SUN dizzy machine), but for Toyota 19100-61080 'non-smog' single-diaphragm points distributor - still available new from Toyota, this was posted before (probably Jim's #'s):

Mechanical:
900 rpm advance begins
1800 rpm 18*
3200 rpm 30* All in

Vacuum Advance:
4" adv begins
12" 16* all in

 

[FJ40Jim]

That's for an OEM 2F dissy. Not an aftermarket unit.
Just sayin...