Thank you.. I do the engine paint job while waiting for the spare parts arrive. Waiting times is the most crucial part when it comes to rebuild this engine.
Ideas for improving the 2LTE (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter GTSSportCoupe
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New member here and first post. Big thanks to GTSSportCoupe for starting this thread and providing so much excellent info. I trust the LJ78 is still trucking a long happy as?
I recently purchased my own 2LTE in a very tidy 1992 Surf with 145,000kms on the clock and have spent too much time reading this thread and various others since. I'm figuring there is a certain kind of stubbornness involved in owning a truck with this engine under the hood. Everyone says it's probably a bad idea and yet some people just can't help themselves
I drove a number of 1KZs at the time but in the end was swayed by the lower price of the 2LTE plus the fact the truck was very tidy, a manual and was imported very young then had only one owner who I believed maintained it well for the subsequent 20 years. The comments of my mechanic would seem to back this up.
It's on its second cylinder head, the original went at around 80,000kms, has a brand new radiator and EGR system blocked off (probably when the head was replaced) but is otherwise stock standard. Other than being a tad underpowered and sounding like a bit of a rattly old diesel, it drives very well.
That said, I'm keen to take some steps to help the little engine stay a bit cooler and hopefully reduce the chances of blowing the second head, some minor gains in performance not unwelcome either! It's booked in for a 2.5 inch exhaust from the turbo back, EGT and water temp probes will be fitted at the same time. On a side note diff, gearbox and transfer case breathers will be extended. Beyond that I will probably add a snorkel at some point. Hopefully this will be enough to bring the temps down a bit. Not planning on pushing it hard and tyres are only 30 x 9.5s. I'm curious about the throttle plate removal mentioned in this thread but don't have any mechanical experience to call on so would have to enlist help on that one too.
One thing I have pondered... Seems some folk have run these engines more or less stock and got 3-400,000kms without more than one head change yet others have had multiple failures. I was reading a post on another forum and the guy was less than complimentary about the 2LTE saying he'd replaced the exhaust, added 4 core radiator etc etc and still the head had given up. What this makes me wonder is whether it is more a case of cumulative damage rather than one traumatic incident. Ie. you buy a truck, the head is weakened but not enough to notice when you test drive, you make a bunch of mods to keep it cool and it gives way anyway because it was waiting for the straw to break the camels back?
Lastly, there's something to me about these late 80s to mid 90s models that the newer versions just don't quite have (thinking of both Prados and Surfs). The 2LTE Surf in manual just feels so different to say a 96 in Auto (never got to drive a 1KZ in manual though). Most of the differences in the later models are no doubt improvements but somehow I just don't get excited driving them.
Retro factor I guess... Always been a bit of a sucker for that!
I recently purchased my own 2LTE in a very tidy 1992 Surf with 145,000kms on the clock and have spent too much time reading this thread and various others since. I'm figuring there is a certain kind of stubbornness involved in owning a truck with this engine under the hood. Everyone says it's probably a bad idea and yet some people just can't help themselves
I drove a number of 1KZs at the time but in the end was swayed by the lower price of the 2LTE plus the fact the truck was very tidy, a manual and was imported very young then had only one owner who I believed maintained it well for the subsequent 20 years. The comments of my mechanic would seem to back this up.It's on its second cylinder head, the original went at around 80,000kms, has a brand new radiator and EGR system blocked off (probably when the head was replaced) but is otherwise stock standard. Other than being a tad underpowered and sounding like a bit of a rattly old diesel, it drives very well.
That said, I'm keen to take some steps to help the little engine stay a bit cooler and hopefully reduce the chances of blowing the second head, some minor gains in performance not unwelcome either! It's booked in for a 2.5 inch exhaust from the turbo back, EGT and water temp probes will be fitted at the same time. On a side note diff, gearbox and transfer case breathers will be extended. Beyond that I will probably add a snorkel at some point. Hopefully this will be enough to bring the temps down a bit. Not planning on pushing it hard and tyres are only 30 x 9.5s. I'm curious about the throttle plate removal mentioned in this thread but don't have any mechanical experience to call on so would have to enlist help on that one too.
One thing I have pondered... Seems some folk have run these engines more or less stock and got 3-400,000kms without more than one head change yet others have had multiple failures. I was reading a post on another forum and the guy was less than complimentary about the 2LTE saying he'd replaced the exhaust, added 4 core radiator etc etc and still the head had given up. What this makes me wonder is whether it is more a case of cumulative damage rather than one traumatic incident. Ie. you buy a truck, the head is weakened but not enough to notice when you test drive, you make a bunch of mods to keep it cool and it gives way anyway because it was waiting for the straw to break the camels back?
Lastly, there's something to me about these late 80s to mid 90s models that the newer versions just don't quite have (thinking of both Prados and Surfs). The 2LTE Surf in manual just feels so different to say a 96 in Auto (never got to drive a 1KZ in manual though). Most of the differences in the later models are no doubt improvements but somehow I just don't get excited driving them.
Retro factor I guess... Always been a bit of a sucker for that!
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@Peter P, I wouldn't sweat pulling the throttle plate out. Tedious, but not hard. Probably 3-4 hour job from start to finish with a beer to two included in that time. You could probably do it faster if you want to leave the cross bar that holds the plate in place, but recommend a Dremel Tool grind that out carefully. But I'm pretty sure people some just leave the bar in place.
Just drill the two dowls out that hold the plate in with an 1/8th" drill bit and step that hole up to 1/4" bit and it should pull right out with a pair of pliers. Than have a beer and make the decision if you want to carefully grind out the crossbar.
Order a new gasket before hand and re-install.
Just drill the two dowls out that hold the plate in with an 1/8th" drill bit and step that hole up to 1/4" bit and it should pull right out with a pair of pliers. Than have a beer and make the decision if you want to carefully grind out the crossbar.
Order a new gasket before hand and re-install.
GTSSportCoupe
2LTE abuser
- Thread starter
- #264
Your post was a really good read; thank-you!
Yes, you've nailed it! That is exactly what it is.
It seems the original flawed heads that were put on these motors ALL fail at around 60,000-100,000km or so.
I've thought about this too. Recently I was talking to one of the import parts suppliers local to me. He was selling crates of the new 2LTE/3L cylinder heads when the JDM trucks first came to Canada 13 years ago. Despite how many he sold then, he said he's had no repeat customers.
My theory on this is, both the 2LTE and 3L had an old cylinder head version, and a new version. It was commonly accepted that the 3L head was the 'fix' for the 2LTE. Well, if you bought the later 3L head part number, then yes, this is true. However if you bought the old 3L head part number, then the head would fail around the same time the original 2LTE head failed. Basically both the early 2LTE and early 3L head's had the same flaw. The old 2LTE head part number is 11101-54120 and the new one is 11101-54121. The old 3L part number is 11101-54130 and the new one is 11101-54131.
I agree! It's the same with the Landcruisers.
I'm figuring there is a certain kind of stubbornness involved in owning a truck with this engine under the hood. Everyone says it's probably a bad idea and yet some people just can't help themselves
Yes, you've nailed it! That is exactly what it is.
It seems the original flawed heads that were put on these motors ALL fail at around 60,000-100,000km or so.
I've thought about this too. Recently I was talking to one of the import parts suppliers local to me. He was selling crates of the new 2LTE/3L cylinder heads when the JDM trucks first came to Canada 13 years ago. Despite how many he sold then, he said he's had no repeat customers.
My theory on this is, both the 2LTE and 3L had an old cylinder head version, and a new version. It was commonly accepted that the 3L head was the 'fix' for the 2LTE. Well, if you bought the later 3L head part number, then yes, this is true. However if you bought the old 3L head part number, then the head would fail around the same time the original 2LTE head failed. Basically both the early 2LTE and early 3L head's had the same flaw. The old 2LTE head part number is 11101-54120 and the new one is 11101-54121. The old 3L part number is 11101-54130 and the new one is 11101-54131.
I agree! It's the same with the Landcruisers.
Thanks for the photos Dprio... Excellent! Will have a browse of the manual sometime soon to get a better understanding. And yes I follow you GTS. I have also heard that the 2LTE heads were improved at some point and that once the first head goes on a 1KZ and is replaced, usually they're fine from that point onwards so perhaps Toyota improved the heads for that engine too. Also, even if the cumulative idea is correct, that still doesn't make cooling the engine better any less sensible.
Just out of curiosity... what is engine noise like in the cabin of the 2LTE LJ78? I'm getting quite a lot of engine noise in my Surf, under load but I don't remember the '94 - '96s I drove being as loud or rattly so I wonder whether the sound-proofing on the firewall was improved a little.
One question I am keen to know the answer to if you can help is what temps should I aim for as a maximum on the gauges before I ease off throttle? The EGT probe will be after the turbo but as close as possible. Where is the best place to put the probe in the cooling system?
Will report back as improvements on the truck are made... Thanks again.
Just out of curiosity... what is engine noise like in the cabin of the 2LTE LJ78? I'm getting quite a lot of engine noise in my Surf, under load but I don't remember the '94 - '96s I drove being as loud or rattly so I wonder whether the sound-proofing on the firewall was improved a little.
One question I am keen to know the answer to if you can help is what temps should I aim for as a maximum on the gauges before I ease off throttle? The EGT probe will be after the turbo but as close as possible. Where is the best place to put the probe in the cooling system?
Will report back as improvements on the truck are made... Thanks again.
GTSSportCoupe
2LTE abuser
- Thread starter
- #266
I don't find the engine noise bad in my LJ78. It is a little rattly at idle, but not too bad. I also have a 90 Hilux Surf with the 2LT-II and manual transmission. I drove it for a few months while I was doing some work on my Prado. I did not find it noisy either; in fact I think it was quieter if anything. Maybe you have an exhaust/heat shield rattle? Check your engine mounts too.
I have a pre turbo and post turbo EGT probe in my truck. The difference between the two is only around 100F. Basically I don't let the post-turbo one get over 900F (482C), and pre turbo 1000F (540C). My truck is tuned so I can't actually get over those temperatures anyhow even under the worst case conditions.
Coolant temp is a tough one. I would say keeping it under 100C or 210F max would be good. Ideally keep it at what every your thermostat opening temperature is. Personally I have a waterless coolant, and I do run my engine hotter than those temperatures on occasion while towing. The thing to be concerned with as the coolant temps come up, is although the coolant is not too hot as a whole, it will be too hot in the cylinder head around the pre-combustion chambers. This means there is localized boiling there, and parts of the head can get much hotter than other parts. This causes the stresses that lead to a cracked head. The waterless coolants don't boil until 180C, and thus protect from this localized boiling much better. This keeps the head at an even temperature which in theory prevents it from cracking.
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@Peter P, If you have high noise levels in the cabin, I would do a good inspection of the exhaust system. Something doesn't have a good seal or there is a hole somewhere. When you do the blanking plates to loose the EGR System, make sure you use at least 3/16th steel for the blanking plates, especially on the exhaust manifold. I lost a good seal at the rear of the exhaust manifold and had a serious high pitch noise above 2000RPM.
Excellent. Thank you for that. I'll set the alarm on the gauges at those temps.
With the above comments in mind, I've been paying a bit more attention to the engine noise. There is a very consistent fluttering, puttering sort of noise that seems to be tied to the RPM so yes I wonder if there is a leak in the exhaust. I'll wait to see if it goes away when the 2.5" exhaust is done before looking into that. With a bit of luck it might be a hole after the turbo or maybe a leak where the exhaust bolts on. The EGR has already been deleted but I haven't yet looked at what has been used to block it off.
I have a second noise which is a bit more mysterious. It's a sporadic sort of squelching, creaking noise and sounds like it's emanating from somewhere in behind the heater in the cab. Definitely wouldn't say either noise is unbearable but would be good to get rid of them at some point. Would be nice for the truck to sound less like some farmers old work ute.
The most irritating issue so far though is the cabin electrics. Spent more $$ than I would have liked having the rear window and wing mirror adjustments fixed only to find out the issues in both cases was simply the wires becoming brittle from repeated flexing between the doors and body. One of the windows is now giving me trouble. Might look into how much hassle it would be for me to replace all the wires from the switches forward.
Took the truck on its first good highway run and averaged 10.1l/100kms which I thought was pretty good more or less stock standard. Round town I've been getting 13.2l/100km. Did some long steep hills yesterday with a bit of a load on board which made me wonder. Cranked the cabin heaters and I could feel the temperature of the air increase when I hit the steep stuff. Was getting pretty hot but the stock gauge didn't move Looking forward to having the new gauges in for sure.
It wasn't really my intention but seems the truck has become a bit of a project My weekend task is to get wiring and mounting done for the two gauges and a light bar. Thanks again
P.s. sorry for digressing from the thread topic!
With the above comments in mind, I've been paying a bit more attention to the engine noise. There is a very consistent fluttering, puttering sort of noise that seems to be tied to the RPM so yes I wonder if there is a leak in the exhaust. I'll wait to see if it goes away when the 2.5" exhaust is done before looking into that. With a bit of luck it might be a hole after the turbo or maybe a leak where the exhaust bolts on. The EGR has already been deleted but I haven't yet looked at what has been used to block it off.
I have a second noise which is a bit more mysterious. It's a sporadic sort of squelching, creaking noise and sounds like it's emanating from somewhere in behind the heater in the cab. Definitely wouldn't say either noise is unbearable but would be good to get rid of them at some point. Would be nice for the truck to sound less like some farmers old work ute.
The most irritating issue so far though is the cabin electrics. Spent more $$ than I would have liked having the rear window and wing mirror adjustments fixed only to find out the issues in both cases was simply the wires becoming brittle from repeated flexing between the doors and body. One of the windows is now giving me trouble. Might look into how much hassle it would be for me to replace all the wires from the switches forward.
Took the truck on its first good highway run and averaged 10.1l/100kms which I thought was pretty good more or less stock standard. Round town I've been getting 13.2l/100km. Did some long steep hills yesterday with a bit of a load on board which made me wonder. Cranked the cabin heaters and I could feel the temperature of the air increase when I hit the steep stuff. Was getting pretty hot but the stock gauge didn't move Looking forward to having the new gauges in for sure.
It wasn't really my intention but seems the truck has become a bit of a project
My weekend task is to get wiring and mounting done for the two gauges and a light bar. Thanks againP.s. sorry for digressing from the thread topic!
GTSSportCoupe
2LTE abuser
- Thread starter
- #269
The factory temp gauge in the surf's has a big dead spot and doesn't tell you what is really going on until it's too late. There is a way to correct it, but if you're putting in aftermarket gauges it may not matter anyhow. Regardless, here is the link to the fix: Temp Gauge Mod
I left the cross/bar in mine when I took it out. I just drilled out the little screws, slid the plate out, and cleaned the throttle body thoroughly to make sure I got all of the metal shavings out. If I had a bit more time, it hadn't been 2:30am, I was sober, and I didn't need to do a 5 hour drive the next day, I might have attempted removing the cross bar. That said, removing just the plate made a very noticeable difference on my 2L-T. It felt much less "choked" off-boost. Breathes much better now. I re-used the original gasket, I believe.
I also have a theory, that at least on the mechanically-injected 2L-TII, that the coolant temp sensor would leave the throttle plate VSVs and the compensator VSV closed to minimize pollution when cold until it reached a certain temp. Because God, before I did those mods it would not get out of its own way when it was cold, then I'd reach a certain point and it would be like a "switch" and suddenly I'd have power. After the throttle plate and VSV removal, it scoots when it's cold, but lots of black smoke until it warms up.
You can put me in that camp. Gotta root for the underdog.
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Great info on the throttle plate mod in these replies. Much appreciated.
Just to clarify... the "throttle plate" and "throttle butterfly" are the same thing is that correct?
I have a mate who can give me a hand with its removal. However seeing as it is irreversible I am wondering whether I should be concerned by any downsides? I've read of rough shutdown (can't imagine this will bother me), rough idle, revs not dropping away when changing gears and reduced engine braking. The last two being the ones I'm primarily thinking of here. Need I worry?
I'm pretty used to driving the Surf almost stock now and I'd say on the flat I'm pretty happy with how it performs. I actually love the feel of it on the highway which is a bit of a surprise. Up hills (lots of these where I live!) it's pretty gutless though, particularly off boost. I understand the feeling of it being "choked up" off turbo. Gets pretty bogged down at low RPMs in second around town sometimes which can make it feel like a bit of a dog.
2.5 inch exhaust and probes will be fitted in the next couple of weeks so will be interesting to see where the truck is at after that. I'm hoping I can get a bit more out of it without going as far as an intercooler. Thanks again all for such good info on this engine.
Just to clarify... the "throttle plate" and "throttle butterfly" are the same thing is that correct?
I have a mate who can give me a hand with its removal. However seeing as it is irreversible I am wondering whether I should be concerned by any downsides? I've read of rough shutdown (can't imagine this will bother me), rough idle, revs not dropping away when changing gears and reduced engine braking. The last two being the ones I'm primarily thinking of here. Need I worry?
I'm pretty used to driving the Surf almost stock now and I'd say on the flat I'm pretty happy with how it performs. I actually love the feel of it on the highway which is a bit of a surprise. Up hills (lots of these where I live!) it's pretty gutless though, particularly off boost. I understand the feeling of it being "choked up" off turbo. Gets pretty bogged down at low RPMs in second around town sometimes which can make it feel like a bit of a dog.
2.5 inch exhaust and probes will be fitted in the next couple of weeks so will be interesting to see where the truck is at after that. I'm hoping I can get a bit more out of it without going as far as an intercooler. Thanks again all for such good info on this engine.
GTSSportCoupe
2LTE abuser
- Thread starter
- #273
I really need to update the first post in this thread. There is so much I've learned since I first wrote it.... Will try to get to that before too much longer.
I look forward to it.
Have made some progress on my Surf, but still more to do so will wait to post on the results. Next up is a service of the cooling system. Plan is to switch to Toyota Red Coolant with Water Wetter and put in a high-flow thermostat at the same time. Hopefully this will help with the temps up hills as presently I can hit 100+ oC fairly easily. I plan to service the fan too.
Just wondering if anyone can help with which thermostat I should use? My best google efforts suggest the part part number for the Tridon 82oC high-flow is TT2322-180. But I wonder if there is a high-flow 88oC version available, if so what is the part number and would this be better than the 82? Lastly, can't seem to figure out whether I need to source a gasket of seal from Toyota for the job. Can anyone enlighten? It's a 1992 2lTE Surf not the Landcruiser. Thank you
Just wondering if anyone can help with which thermostat I should use? My best google efforts suggest the part part number for the Tridon 82oC high-flow is TT2322-180. But I wonder if there is a high-flow 88oC version available, if so what is the part number and would this be better than the 82? Lastly, can't seem to figure out whether I need to source a gasket of seal from Toyota for the job. Can anyone enlighten? It's a 1992 2lTE Surf not the Landcruiser. Thank you
Hi Peter,
For the thermostat, I thought the original specification one is just nice. Mine is still using the same thing.. In addition, I only change my coolant with the green coolant, since my place here doesnt sell any option of water wetter coolant. Fyi, I was living in Borneo Island and our climate here is much more warmer. My point is, either using the same thermostat should be no problem and changing to the green coolant is the best option for our budget. Red coolant from my past experince is just not as good in their jobs.
By the way, another issue for my past experince mistake while doing this rebuilding engine project, you should take note and look seriously when doing the head engine torque. You must reach the torque about 95Nm. (Double check the manual or someone will clarify the correct torque.) If NOT, the temperature will rise up easily since our diesel engine is build base on high pressure system. I do the mistake last time and I hope you will re-check on this matter.
For the thermostat and coolant opinion., I hope my info will help you in your decision to do your autoworks.
They make one. I’ve got one in my 2LTE but I don’t have a number. I look and see what I can find
Ebay Australia. Opens at 89C.
TRIDON HF Thermostat Hilux(Diesel)LN106-LN147R 10/88-4/05 2.4L3.0L 2LT,E,3L,5L,E | eBay
TRIDON HF Thermostat Hilux(Diesel)LN106-LN147R 10/88-4/05 2.4L3.0L 2LT,E,3L,5L,E | eBay
GTSSportCoupe
2LTE abuser
- Thread starter
- #279
Yup, that is the right one. ^^ Tridon TT2322-192.
Much appreciated. Leaning towards the 88oC version. From what I read, I think probably my cooling problem lies with the viscous fan hub, so need to get onto that. Having said this, a full flush of the cooling system can't be a bad thing.
The throttle plate removal has caused a definite drop in EGTs which surprised me and has made me see my engine bay in a new light. One thing I've pondered is that the intake piping between the air filter and turbo is not particularly generous and also runs right over the top of the hot engine. Strikes me as being sub-optimal. I thought perhaps in the case of an intercooled setup this may not be very relevant but it'd be interesting to know just how much pre-heating of the intake air is happening pre-turbo.
Snorkel acquired today. Factory piping pre-airfilter is pretty stingy so hoping for good things when fitted...
The throttle plate removal has caused a definite drop in EGTs which surprised me and has made me see my engine bay in a new light. One thing I've pondered is that the intake piping between the air filter and turbo is not particularly generous and also runs right over the top of the hot engine. Strikes me as being sub-optimal. I thought perhaps in the case of an intercooled setup this may not be very relevant but it'd be interesting to know just how much pre-heating of the intake air is happening pre-turbo.
Snorkel acquired today. Factory piping pre-airfilter is pretty stingy so hoping for good things when fitted...
