Cars depreciate, even Land cruisers. Stay canny, get a 2013 and keep on saving for retirement. The experience from inside and outside is essentially the same.
I test drove a Land Cruiser today - first drive in one since 1977 - EDIT: On order (1 Viewer)
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Slow Paddler
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Good advice. I'm 67 and we both retired ten years ago. But don't let that fool you; we're not wealthy (highest combined income for both of us was well under six figures), we just saved as much as we could, took on zero debt other than the house, and live pretty frugally. Buying a Land Cruiser would be a huge expense for us.
I'm sitting here with a dealer's order sheet, just waiting for me to commit. It is for a black 2020 HE, with 1300 miles on it (dealer demo; the owner's wife's car) for $81,500 (with tax and fees at $87,303.) My gut is eating me up. That's a used Mazda3 less than what we paid for our house!
I just can't do it... I've wanted one of these things for nearly 50 years. But my four year old 4Runner is more than adequate, paid for, and in great shape with only 35,000 miles. I don't think I would have even been considering this option if not for the fact that after next year I won't be able to buy a new one.
Maybe one of these days I'll snag a used one. Or, maybe not. I think I'll be okay with that. I hope so, anyway.
Thank you all for letting me go all "stream of consciousness" on you here. It's helped; believe me.
Steve
You can get into a nearly identical* 200 series, in LX guise for $30k. I imagine your 4runner is not far off that on resale.
*Gen2 2013-2015
*Gen2 2013-2015
Slow Paddler
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Thanks! At the time, it was all I could do to scrape together $156.25 to buy six shares at $19-7/8. We we're living slightly less than paycheck to paycheck in a small rental. I went into the brokerage to buy five, but last minute upped it to six. The broker was flabbergasted, used to people buying minimums of 100 shares.
You can't imagine how often I've kicked myself for not taking out a signature loan for 100 shares. After combined splits of 112:1, I'm sitting at a cost basis of $0.177.
If only...
You would have sold long ago with a bigger multiplier. Almost no one sits pat for 25 years. So maybe thank your foresight to not bet bigger!Thanks! At the time, it was all I could do to scrape together $156.25 to buy six shares at $19-7/8. We we're living slightly less than paycheck to paycheck in a small rental. I went into the brokerage to buy five, but last minute upped it to six. The broker was flabbergasted, used to people buying minimums of 100 shares.
You can't imagine how often I've kicked myself for not taking out a signature loan for 100 shares. After combined splits of 112:1, I'm sitting at a cost basis of $0.177.
If only...
Slow Paddler
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- #26
Probably true.
Not to side track this thread but haven’t heard about that car in years. Had an 1987 16V Scirocco in college. Miss that car...
Crush 4
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Man, I really appreciate this candor. I’m retired and have a 21 coming in 8 weeks and wrestled with a similar logic. I have observed many people put off what they Really wanted only to have Father Time step in earlier then expected and regretted not doing what they really wanted.......sorry for being a bit morbid.
Having said that, the decision lies it what will make you happier or could possibly bring happier moments.
My wife and I decided on the LC because we decided to travel around the US to areas we have not been too or never had the right amount of time when we were there. We considered various costs associated with 3-4 week trips with the biggest expense being accommodations. Quick math, along with staying off the grid brought us to a LC purchase. We even considered a Mercedes Van, very expensive, but Kept coming back to a large enough vehicle to travel in comfort and that we could sleep in along our travels and use for many, many years.
Not sure if this helps but your thought process inspired me to share.
BTW I sold a 4 runner to get the LC
Slow Paddler
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Hah, I already side-tracked it.
Mine was a '75, the first year, available even before the Rabbit. VW's first water cooled car and first front wheel drive. It spent 101 days in the shop the first two years. After the warranty was up, I ripped off all the emission stuff, the A/C fell of, and I converted it to an early version of Hall-effect pointless ignition. It was fine after that, and I drove it hard and with minimum maintenance for 12 years before it croaked. One of my favorite cars.
Slow Paddler
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Thanks, I can certainly understand that logic! We retired early partially (mostly) because my Dad died early at 77, which is 10-15 years younger than normal for my family, and I realized, "Holy Crap! He's only 22 years older than me!" That was all it took to bail early.
We've only travelled in the eastern US in the past, but in 2015, our youngest daughter went to Seattle for college. We took her and her stuff out in my '08 Subaru Outback (turbo, manual tranny) and took 42 days to wander our way home. Got back, realized how hard it was on the Outback on several rocky trails we went on, and ordered the 4Runner; my first ever automatic. We also stayed in motels the whole trip, which was expensive, but also far from the parks, BLM, and forest roads we travelled on. So we not only got the 4Runner, but a "squareback" teardrop as well. Three more cross-country journeys later, and travelling hasn't been so fun in ages!
Some great sentiments and life perspectives here.
I'll echo that there's only one life to live. It's sometimes too short that opportunities should be seized and life dreams lived. Otherwise it may pass you by. There's many ways to achieve that dream. I also strongly don't believe anyone should jeopardize life balances and finances, to overcommit on a singular life dream, less there's no exit ramp when dreams change.
Pragmatically, there's a whole spectrum of ways to get into a 200-series. From that new $87k to $30k examples, with great options at every dollar point in between. If you do your due diligence, you'll get into one nigh identical to that HE, while savings 10s of thousands. For a robust and arguably the most reliable brand and model vehicle on earth, the real opportunity of the Land Cruiser may not be for the first owner, but subsequent owners.
I'll echo that there's only one life to live. It's sometimes too short that opportunities should be seized and life dreams lived. Otherwise it may pass you by. There's many ways to achieve that dream. I also strongly don't believe anyone should jeopardize life balances and finances, to overcommit on a singular life dream, less there's no exit ramp when dreams change.
Pragmatically, there's a whole spectrum of ways to get into a 200-series. From that new $87k to $30k examples, with great options at every dollar point in between. If you do your due diligence, you'll get into one nigh identical to that HE, while savings 10s of thousands. For a robust and arguably the most reliable brand and model vehicle on earth, the real opportunity of the Land Cruiser may not be for the first owner, but subsequent owners.
You could also think of buying a Land Cruiser at age 67 to be like buying AAPL at around its age 0. The investment this time is not in money, but instead in fun. The fun will multiple and split like crazy and have a super low fun cost basis. That's the case regardless of the 200 series model year purchased, IMHO.
molanginaeda
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If you are having second thought on price what I going to say is not likely to help. Cost of ownership for LC will be more than your 4runner. Insurance is going to cost more. Tires are going to cost more. Oil change if going to cost more 8 quart to I imagine 5. The amount of Gas to go 1 mile is going to cost more. Standard maintenance of any kind is likely to cost more. If you are not ready for all these price increases. That 4 runner is a great vehicle it will last you many more years and heck of lot more miles than is currently on it. Good luck what ever you chose.
greynolds
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Why are tires going to cost more? Especially if deviating from stock tires to something like BFG KO's, the price should be pretty close, I would think. But yeah, in general, a LC is going to cost more to keep on the road than a 4Runner.
Slow Paddler
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Thanks, I just reciprocated.
Slow Paddler
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Thanks for the encouragement and support, gang! I was pretty bummed yesterday, but then slept great for the first time in a week. I'd already been watching used models (2016 and up) before, and more seriously when I bought the 4Runner. It was just the fact that a new one would only be possible for a short time that lit the fire under me. That pressure has been alleviated due to my own self-analysis, so I'm in no rush now.
It was just the giant commitment of roughly $87,000 that knocked me on my ass. I *know* the vehicle is worth it. I know the value, reliability, etc. It's just the realization that it cost almost as much as my house! (See previous post about zero debt and frugal expenditures.) I was reminded above while mentioning my '75 VW Scirocco, that the sales tax on the Land Cruiser was more than the total cost of that VW. (Uh oh! I'm sounding like my Dad. I remember when he complained about his first car that cost more than his house - $11,000, and buying his first computer that cost more than his first car - $2000 '62 Ford Falcon Wagon.)
Cost of ownership isn't worrisome. Deb drives a 2017 Mazda CX-5 now, but her previous two vehicles were a 1999 Audi A6 and a 2008 Mercedes C-300. So we are well aware of how expensive cost of ownership can be, and why we'd never own (but might lease) a luxury brand again. I'd expect the Land Cruiser to be less than either of those.
Where do folks watch for used vehicles other than AutoTrader? Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace are too limiting in area.
Thanks again!
I'd already been watching used models (2016 and up) before, and more seriously when I bought the 4Runner. It was just the fact that a new one would only be possible for a short time that lit the fire under me. That pressure has been alleviated due to my own self-analysis, so I'm in no rush now.It was just the giant commitment of roughly $87,000 that knocked me on my ass. I *know* the vehicle is worth it. I know the value, reliability, etc. It's just the realization that it cost almost as much as my house! (See previous post about zero debt and frugal expenditures.) I was reminded above while mentioning my '75 VW Scirocco, that the sales tax on the Land Cruiser was more than the total cost of that VW.
(Uh oh! I'm sounding like my Dad. I remember when he complained about his first car that cost more than his house - $11,000, and buying his first computer that cost more than his first car - $2000 '62 Ford Falcon Wagon.)Cost of ownership isn't worrisome. Deb drives a 2017 Mazda CX-5 now, but her previous two vehicles were a 1999 Audi A6 and a 2008 Mercedes C-300. So we are well aware of how expensive cost of ownership can be, and why we'd never own (but might lease) a luxury brand again. I'd expect the Land Cruiser to be less than either of those.
Where do folks watch for used vehicles other than AutoTrader? Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace are too limiting in area.
Thanks again!
Something else to think about (I know... like you need more, right?). Check out financing as an option. I hate owing anybody money, but if you can get financing at a rate that is less than you are earning on your investments, then it *might* make more sense to finance. Maybe you could also deduct the interest charges (not likely on personal loans).
I re-fi'd my house about 18 months ago, got the rate down to around 3%. Then I was thinking I would just pay it off, since I have the funds in an investment. But my broker talked me out of it, he's earning much higher *on average* in the market, plus I would lose the mortgage interest deduction. So for the time being I make minimum mortgage payments and not worry about it.
I re-fi'd my house about 18 months ago, got the rate down to around 3%. Then I was thinking I would just pay it off, since I have the funds in an investment. But my broker talked me out of it, he's earning much higher *on average* in the market, plus I would lose the mortgage interest deduction. So for the time being I make minimum mortgage payments and not worry about it.
greynolds
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And definitely shop around on the loan. After I bought my LC with financing sourced through the dealer, it occurred to me that I should have shopped around, so I looked into it. I ended up refinancing for a rate that was more than 2% less.
Simple Example I went to NTB web site. Nitto Terra Grappler G2 is $875 for 4 LC (285/60/18, note $915 for higher load index) and $647 4Runner (265/70/17, note $819 for higher index load). While not a giant the spread is $225 on high end and $90 on low end. Just a cost that across the board adds up. Also using KBB and their cost of ownership calculator for 2016 LC to TRD Pro 4Runner its $30k to $25k for 15k miles a year just fuel, insurance, maintenance, and repairs. Note I not saying KBB data is 100% accurate just set up numbers that should be derived in same manner for both vehicles and would make it at some what decent comparison point.
I love my LC but it coast me more per month averaged out compared to the Honda Pilot it replaced. Not really and apple to apple but just things to consider when buying. I hope that "SMORRIS" gets what he wants in long run.
By way loved his comment on price of car to house. When I was still in military riding Motorcyles with GoldWing group I remember one of the older gentleman telling how his most recent GoldWing cost more than his first house. That was back in early 1990's
