HZJ77 & HZJ73 Manual Transmissions
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crushers
post ho
nope, that will not lead to that kind of heat on the shaft... it would be interesting to see the truck and the tranny when it is torn down...
The reason they fail early is simple , just not enough spline(and too small) engagement to last the distance.
It could also be s*** or improperly heat treated steel .
A bit like when you fit a ARB RD23 or 132 to a toyota 8 inch diff, ARB,s side gears dont have the same spline area as a original toyota side gear hence after 100000klm you axels get chopped to bits. Not enough spline engagement!
The 1 peice design has the transfer input drive and female spline as one shaft . At $350 for the 1 peice one i havent been the guinny pig to try it in the early box yet .
I cant see why it wouldnt fit as everything else looks the same .
Dave
It could also be s*** or improperly heat treated steel .
A bit like when you fit a ARB RD23 or 132 to a toyota 8 inch diff, ARB,s side gears dont have the same spline area as a original toyota side gear hence after 100000klm you axels get chopped to bits. Not enough spline engagement!
The 1 peice design has the transfer input drive and female spline as one shaft . At $350 for the 1 peice one i havent been the guinny pig to try it in the early box yet .
I cant see why it wouldnt fit as everything else looks the same .
Dave
crushers
post ho
umm, i will disagree with the "not enough spline and too small" theory. if that was the case then it would sheer off, not wear off.
the idea of s*** treating is plausable and quite possible.
but the "burn" in that one pic doesn't relate to either theories. that is overheating and once again, that bloke will be rebuilding or replacing that tranny and i would love to see what the rest of the tranny guts looked like.
whether the collar is used or the one piece, if the splines are designed correctly then there should be no issues. to me this shows there is a flaw in the actual drafting.
the way that output shaft is worn, it looks like constant abuse would have been happening.
the idea of s*** treating is plausable and quite possible.
but the "burn" in that one pic doesn't relate to either theories. that is overheating and once again, that bloke will be rebuilding or replacing that tranny and i would love to see what the rest of the tranny guts looked like.
whether the collar is used or the one piece, if the splines are designed correctly then there should be no issues. to me this shows there is a flaw in the actual drafting.
the way that output shaft is worn, it looks like constant abuse would have been happening.
No, it happens on all of them with that design eventually, at around 100,000-150,000kms.
Not from constant abuse, but from normal use.
crushers
post ho
IF what you say is true then piss poor design is obvious. i have a R151 in the red rag top with 90K on it, with your theory in play i should have 1/2 the wear showing. the R141 i have in the shop has 200K on it so i will check it and the 343 has the same shaft with 120K on it, i will check it today as well.
i will report back with the results.
cheers
i will report back with the results.
cheers
Crushers, So all those ones you have mentioned above are all in HD fullsize landcruisers with large motors infront of them?
I have not seen/heard of this wear issue in any Light duty landcruiser/hilux/surf that all came with R151's in various versions, but are lighter vehicles with a comparing lighter GVM.
What is your reasoning behind the "not enough spline theory" ? To me it is entirely plausible. There is not enough spline engagement/shaft size to handle the load for extended periods in a full size car, this leads to accelerated wear. The stress area of the spline is insufficient for the load.
The H55F suffers from a similar problem, though not as bad. The fix, an extended spine gear from jac mac, to spread the stress over a larger area.
I have not seen/heard of this wear issue in any Light duty landcruiser/hilux/surf that all came with R151's in various versions, but are lighter vehicles with a comparing lighter GVM.
What is your reasoning behind the "not enough spline theory" ? To me it is entirely plausible. There is not enough spline engagement/shaft size to handle the load for extended periods in a full size car, this leads to accelerated wear. The stress area of the spline is insufficient for the load.
The H55F suffers from a similar problem, though not as bad. The fix, an extended spine gear from jac mac, to spread the stress over a larger area.
crushers
post ho
PZJ77 - 2460 kg
weight won't be the issue.
PZJ77 - 4650 kg - ex-mine truck. want to tell me that they are babied LD trucks?
weight is not the issue.
IF it is the weight then that doesn't make sense. if it is the engine then it will have to be how the engine and tranny are driven. steady application of power does not cause load shock (and to have gear wear such as this then there is definate load shocking occuring (as well as poorly treated metal)). the idea is that fine spline couplings are just about as strong as as solid IF the metal working is proper mesh and material hardening. stronger than coarse spline.
i am not saying that it doesn't happen, the pics prove that, what i am saying is WHY is it happening? if what you say is true then a call to your local stealership parts counter person (one that isn't a pompass ass) should reveal tens of thousands of these trannies being sold and installed. also, if this is the case then there should be a recall initiated by Toyota (like the BEB problem of the early HDT engines
)
the mines here disliked the R151 due to reverse being the weak link. i will make another call tomorrow and see if they have found the intermediate shaft issue that is being spoke of here. if there is a prevelent weak link the mines will find it.
i looked at both the intermediate shafts i have here and although one is rusty there is no wear...
torque is torque, the only time huge torque comes on line is when the throttle and clutch is dumped. this shock loads the whole drivetrain and will reveal the weak links.
just to clarify, these problems are on D/D vehicles, not just tow vehicles or wheeling rigs. correct?
weight won't be the issue.
PZJ77 - 4650 kg - ex-mine truck. want to tell me that they are babied LD trucks?
weight is not the issue.
IF it is the weight then that doesn't make sense. if it is the engine then it will have to be how the engine and tranny are driven. steady application of power does not cause load shock (and to have gear wear such as this then there is definate load shocking occuring (as well as poorly treated metal)). the idea is that fine spline couplings are just about as strong as as solid IF the metal working is proper mesh and material hardening. stronger than coarse spline.
i am not saying that it doesn't happen, the pics prove that, what i am saying is WHY is it happening? if what you say is true then a call to your local stealership parts counter person (one that isn't a pompass ass) should reveal tens of thousands of these trannies being sold and installed. also, if this is the case then there should be a recall initiated by Toyota (like the BEB problem of the early HDT engines
)the mines here disliked the R151 due to reverse being the weak link. i will make another call tomorrow and see if they have found the intermediate shaft issue that is being spoke of here. if there is a prevelent weak link the mines will find it.
i looked at both the intermediate shafts i have here and although one is rusty there is no wear...
torque is torque, the only time huge torque comes on line is when the throttle and clutch is dumped. this shock loads the whole drivetrain and will reveal the weak links.
just to clarify, these problems are on D/D vehicles, not just tow vehicles or wheeling rigs. correct?
No idea how it goes in other trucks, but the problem seems to mostly be 78/79 series with the R151F.
It is from when they changed to 78/79 series in August, 2009, up until sometime in 2002 or 2003 when they created the single piece shaft.
Toyota have the single piece shaft fix, to fix this problem, along with other companies that create apparently stronger versions, so they are aware of the problem and created a solution to it.
It is a real problem, it happens on most of these trucks eventually, it is not just a figment of our imagination.
It happens on all sorts of trucks, including DD.
i am not saying that it doesn't happen, the pics prove that, what i am saying is WHY is it happening? if what you say is true then a call to your local stealership parts counter person (one that isn't a pompass ass) should reveal tens of thousands of these trannies being sold and installed. also, if this is the case then there should be a recall initiated by Toyota (like the BEB problem of the early HDT engines
I heard stories from others that had the problem earlier on, that Toyota did install the stronger shaft for free on trucks having the problem, around the time they made the replacement stronger/single-piece shaft fix.
crushers
post ho
tiss true, if there is a weak link in a vehicle you Oz boys seem to be able to find it.
i am sure if there is a weakness in the new V8 diesel... the boys down under will dig it up.
i am sure if there is a weakness in the new V8 diesel... the boys down under will dig it up.
The 105 series are suffering the same problem. I was talking to a mate in the pub and his 2002 105 series has bearing howl and angry synchros at 169000klms and he is a 61 yo who hates going offroad.
They are a crap gearbox even when they have the upgraded shaft
crushers
post ho
come on Rosco tell how you really feel
come on Rosco tell how you really feel
You should be ashamed of yourself telling everyone they are a good gearbox when they are only fit for anchors (and 70s Supras because thats where they come from)
crushers
post ho
nah, ignorance is bliss. i have had good ... i guess i will have to call it luck ... with these trannies. of course once i see a rash of dead trannies then they will fall into the same catagory as the L series and the BEB problems and the old auto trannies.
I notice Marlin sell a stronger 1st to 2nd gear shift fork for the R-series 5 speed trannies...
Billet Shift Fork, R-series | Marlin Crawler, Inc.
...and a heavy duty bearing cover...
Comp Series Transmission Bearing Cover Plate | Marlin Crawler, Inc.
Will probably put these in when I get my R151F rebuilt, if someone that knows these gearboxes thinks it would help.
Are there any other improved parts for it, or other ways to strengthen it?
I'll probably also put an Izuzu (I think) overdrive gear in, taking it from 0.838:1 to (I think from memory) about 0.69:1, giving more overdrive to help with the 5.99:1 diffs that are on the way for it.
Billet Shift Fork, R-series | Marlin Crawler, Inc.
...and a heavy duty bearing cover...
Comp Series Transmission Bearing Cover Plate | Marlin Crawler, Inc.
Will probably put these in when I get my R151F rebuilt, if someone that knows these gearboxes thinks it would help.
Are there any other improved parts for it, or other ways to strengthen it?
I'll probably also put an Izuzu (I think) overdrive gear in, taking it from 0.838:1 to (I think from memory) about 0.69:1, giving more overdrive to help with the 5.99:1 diffs that are on the way for it.
crushers
post ho
did i read this right 0.69 O/D?
crap, do a thead on the rebuild as that turns my crank big time. i have always found the o/d to be a bit weak on toyota trannies. (can you fathom the fuel savings on a DD?)
crap, do a thead on the rebuild as that turns my crank big time. i have always found the o/d to be a bit weak on toyota trannies. (can you fathom the fuel savings on a DD?)
I'll have to dig up the info I found earlier, to confirm that was the ratio you end up with after the swap.
...
OK, found it.
It is supposed to be 0.69:1 that you end up with in the R151F after the gear swap.
Need to confirm that it will work, and see if the gears are still available anywhere.
...
OK, found it.
It is supposed to be 0.69:1 that you end up with in the R151F after the gear swap.
Need to confirm that it will work, and see if the gears are still available anywhere.
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crushers
post ho
definately interested in this swap so PLEASE do a thread.
