How Does a 1HZ Compare to a 2F?

[Radd Cruisers]

Yep, tiny bit of die grinding on the shroud, moved the lower drop and drain as far over to the passenger side as possible.

Good to see you on the board Bob.

Rob

Radiator Shroud = flip the stock 60 one upside down and you'll only need a small amount of modifications. Rob Lassman has learned already about placing the engine so the radiator & fan line up. I had to do a little customizing on my radiator and fan shroud.

I'll look into learnng to post photos here - I'm sure it's just a size thing.

Bob[/QUOTE]

 

[euclid]

Kev, I'd love to hear you answer your own question from this thread now that you have been driving it for a while.

TKS

 

[RHINO]

ooops, wrong button above,,,,yeah lets hear a review

 

[BlueHZT60]

Well, I have about 25,000 miles on the HZ transplant now. Just last week I drove 400 miles with an empty cruiser, no roof top tent, at 55-65mph. That equated to 19.0 mpg, gps measured. On the way back, heavily loaded, with roof top, driving my style equated to 17mpg. Lesson - just drive it.

In the past 2 years: Safari turbo seals started leaking, so rebuild was necessary. Change oil; add fuel; BEB upgrade; replace trani mount, clean engine compartment - only because I'm anal; replace rear cable locker due to shredded dog teeth. I was having an overheating issue, but clearing the front air intake area, aluminum radiator, toyota red, water wetter have me manageable. I still need to back off on full load, summer, AC, steep hills. Radiator intake tube gets to 204f, bottom tube out about 180f, air intake post turbo around 194, EGT's at 1100f lead to radiator heating up real fast. 90% of driving egt's are 400-900f. That's with Safari turbo limited at 9lbs boost, straight 3" exhaust. I'll need to re-hook up my two sensor remote BBQ temp and measure all my temps again (hint - real inexpensive way to monitor two different under hood temps). An intercooler is in the not too distant future, plus lighten the load remodel in process. Bob

Another 3,000 plus miles will be upcoming in May, so I'll check back in with results.

 

[crushers]

leave fuel alone and increase boost to 14 psi max... this will drop the EGTs and "should" drop the water temps at hard pull...

 

[kevinmrowland]

Well, in a delayed response to my own question, I would have to say that the HZ is just perfect and doesn't really compare to the 2F.
I love my old 2F, just a great engine, super reliable, but for as reliable as it was, it can't even touch the HZ.
It certainly doesn't have a boat-load more power than the 2F, but the difference is that it's always there, at any speed, don't feel like shifting for a hill, then don't. No more trying to keep the engine right at 2600rpm for the next hill, it just goes.

While I am superstitious enough to not want to write it, there have been no problems. It has driven from here to southern AZ and wheeled all along the way, and from here to BC in the dead of winter, camping all the time and in heavy snows,multiple trips to VT and PA, just no problems. 34k miles since the swap and I haven't touched the engine. The valves hadn't moved a thousandth last I checked. It is quiet and smooth and just idles around town when running errands. No cooling issues, no engine issues, no swap issues, I don't get it. It is leaving me time to chase down rattles and squeaks that the 2F left me no time to deal with.
I don't know what else to say.
As great as the 2F was, the difference in 1970s tech to 1997 tech is a big jump, service and maintenance and the general layout of this new engine is as simple and clean as possible. A joy to drive, and a joy to work on.
Never before have I changed a timing belt without having to remove anything other than the timing belt cover, If you are going to have a belt, that is how it should be.

 

[crushers]

here is the big difference between diesel and gas.
when gas breaks it is $$
when diesel breaks it is HUGE $$$$$

the 2F can lug like a 1HZ
the 2F can rev like the 1HZ
the 2F drinks fuel and the 1HZ sips it.
the 2F fuel filter $2 the 1HZ is anywhere from $25-$40
the 2F oil filter is $5 the 1HZ is anywhere from $25-$40
the 2F air filter is $20 the 1HZ air filter is $25
the 2F cap, rotor and plugs are $40 the 1HZ glow plugs are anywhere from $18 each to $90 each = $120-$600
the 2F carb rebuild is $350 (Jim C) the injection pump rebuild is roughly $1800
the 2F is gear to gear timing, the 1HZ is a timing belt
the longevity of a 2F that is well maintained and not abused is 300,000 miles
the longevity of a 1HZ that is well maintained and not abused is 300,000 miles
the rebuild cost of a 2F is $1800, the rebuild cost of a 1HZ is $6500 +++

in the end, it is what you WANT to drive, not the economics that is the motivator.

 

[Tapage]

great pst Wayne .. totally true.

 

[VTCruiser]

here is the big difference between diesel and gas.
when gas breaks it is $$
when diesel breaks it is HUGE $$$$$

the 2F can lug like a 1HZ
the 2F can rev like the 1HZ
the 2F drinks fuel and the 1HZ sips it.
the 2F fuel filter $2 the 1HZ is anywhere from $25-$40
the 2F oil filter is $5 the 1HZ is anywhere from $25-$40
the 2F air filter is $20 the 1HZ air filter is $25
the 2F cap, rotor and plugs are $40 the 1HZ glow plugs are anywhere from $18 each to $90 each = $120-$600
the 2F carb rebuild is $350 (Jim C) the injection pump rebuild is roughly $1800
the 2F is gear to gear timing, the 1HZ is a timing belt
the longevity of a 2F that is well maintained and not abused is 300,000 miles
the longevity of a 1HZ that is well maintained and not abused is 300,000 miles
the rebuild cost of a 2F is $1800, the rebuild cost of a 1HZ is $6500 +++

in the end, it is what you WANT to drive, not the economics that is the motivator.

I agree that parts for maintenance are more expensive for a 1HZ vs. a 2F (they've made a lot more of them for a much longer time), and it is definitely more expensive to do a diesel swap than not to. But, you should also consider maintenance intervals and ease. For example, cap rotor and plug replacement on a gasser should be done every couple years maybe? spark plugs more often. I have put about 40k miles on my 1HZ and the i just recently replaced the glow plugs for the first time, and who knows how old they were when I bought it. A injection pump might costs $1800 but if well maintained can last the life of the engine. Carbs tend to be a little more finicky needing more frequent adjustments and rebuilds.

The 2F is a very diesel-like gasser in terms of heavy-duty components, low rev, high torque, and overall longevity which makes this argument slightly different than between a more typical gas vs. diesel. But it should be noted that while a 1HZ may be more expensive part-for-part, there are still inherent benefits that can make up for it.

Sidebar: Has the price of 1HZ oil filters risen? I have never paid $25 for one. I bought a case of OE filters last year for about $11 each with club discount (maybe $15 retail?).

 

[crushers]

i am talking going to your dealer and getting a filter and with shipping/exchange rate the lower amount for aftermarket is right on the nose.
spark plugs are $5 each so $30 for all 6 and if you even have to replace them every couple years you are miles ahead of glow plugs.
there is no inherent benefits to owning a diesel over a gasser Toyota 6. there is no savings to be had. a well tuned 2F with 3.7 gears and a H55F will return respectable milage if driven conservatively... problem is i have yet to meet anyone that drives their gasser respectably.

ummm, it isn't just the glow plugs that cost big $$$ but the super glow system itself is full of huge dollar parts.

i drive both. i have driven both diesel and gassers for decades and i love them both for their respective qualities. and one thing i have learned, there is no use arguing with a diesel bigot.

 

[VTCruiser]

i am talking going to your dealer and getting a filter and with shipping/exchange rate the lower amount for aftermarket is right on the nose.
spark plugs are $5 each so $30 for all 6 and if you even have to replace them every couple years you are miles ahead of glow plugs.
there is no inherent benefits to owning a diesel over a gasser Toyota 6. there is no savings to be had. a well tuned 2F with 3.7 gears and a H55F will return respectable milage if driven conservatively... problem is i have yet to meet anyone that drives their gasser respectably.

ummm, it isn't just the glow plugs that cost big $$$ but the super glow system itself is full of huge dollar parts.

i drive both. i have driven both diesel and gassers for decades and i love them both for their respective qualities. and one thing i have learned, there is no use arguing with a diesel bigot.

Sorry, I didn't mean for that come across in an offensive tone, in fact, I was mostly agreeing with you in that owning a diesel cruiser is more expensive than a gasser. I was just bringing up the point that, based on my experience with gasoline engines vs my 1HZ, my 1HZ has required less time under the hood, and a more enjoyable experience behind the wheel. IMO these qualities, in addition to others, make owning a diesel cruiser worthwhile.

your last comment made me laugh though. I know what you mean, but a diesel bigot I am not. Out of my last 6 vehicles, 5 were gas and I wouldn't have had them any other way.

 

[crushers]

LOL!!
<taking foot out of mouth>

i know what you mean, i just see people wanting to install the latest fad. sometimes is just doesn't make any sense.

IF the engine is dieing or dead and you are REALLY planing on keeping the truck for decades then a diesel into a gasser swap makes sense. the HZJ40 swap, on that unit it makes sense. he is going to be putting on large distances, the body can not rust, and it is being built so he can enjoy it for decades.

for me, i drive what ever is under the hood (of course some tweeking can be expected) but then seldom do i keep any vehicle for more than a couple 3 years.

maybe someday i will deserve a cool really nice vehicle...

 

[kevinmrowland]

Yeah, I didn't list any monetary advantages, that is not even part of the equation for me, nor part of my original question.
I just plain like the diesel, always wanted one, now I have one and I don't regret it one bit. And I would not even have considered it an option if I did not plan to keep it as long as I can drive. This is not the kind of thing for someone who does not like the tech of the machine, or plan to get a lot of enjoyment out of the miles driven.
Smiles per mile.

And, yes, Wayne, you need a new source for oil filters.
I'm paying $11 for OE Toyota, dual element diesel filters.

 

[crushers]

i knew us Canucks were being screwed by the US.
the filters come into California, marked up for crossing the border then marked up again at our stealerships for the consumer.
so $11 US , then there is the US dealer surcharge for the CND dealers...say 40% = $18.48 is $22.17 for the CND exchange cost. add 2% duty = $22.62. now the CND dealer will mark it up 75% for the CND consumer $39.58 and add 15% tax = $45.52
which is about par for the average Toyota customer.

you didn't really thing that CND stealerships got a break...so yah?

of course i could order from Dan and cut out the number of middle men but i have a good source here and about 20 filters in stock.

 

[BlueHZT60]

leave fuel alone and increase boost to 14 psi max... this will drop the EGTs and "should" drop the water temps at hard pull...

Thanks Wayne, I have the valve - just need to find it and give it a try. I'll report back after the upcoming road trips.

Bob