Hoping to get input for work being done on 2003 lx470 in distress. (1 Viewer)

[BReynolds]

I’m driving across country and had the water pump bracket fail and pretty much left me stranded at the local Toyota dealership.
They’re charging $1750 for the water pump bracket alone with labor and want $2250 to include the timing belt along with a new drive belt.
I know this is grossly overpriced but am hoping for some opinions as I hate being screwed!
Thanks in advance.

 

[medtro]

When was the timing belt last replaced? If you are going to replace the timing belt, I would replace the water pump, tensioner, pulleys, crank seal and cam seals (for non VVTi) at the same time. It is going to be expensive but this is the best time to replace them unless you want to pay for the labor twice.

 

[Bisho]

You're getting screwed...They have you over a barrel and they're taking advantage. You're looking at less than $500 in parts and less than a day of work for everything (timing belt kit, water pump, fan bracket, cam and crank seals). I would expect a dealer price to be in the $12-1500 range. You definitely want to do it all at the same time.

If you damaged your radiator or broke the fan that is a different story.

 

[BReynolds]

You're getting screwed...They have you over a barrel and they're taking advantage. You're looking at less than $500 in parts and less than a day of work for everything (timing belt kit, water pump, fan bracket, cam and crank seals). I would expect a dealer price to be in the $12-1500 range. You definitely want to do it all at the same time.

If you damaged your radiator or broke the fan that is a different story.

They aren’t doing cam or crank seals. That’s what’s so bad in my opinion.
Thanks for your input.

 

[fooldall1]

They aren’t doing cam or crank seals. That’s what’s so bad in my opinion.
Thanks for your input.

Can you negotiate with the Dealer? Tell him you know what is to be done in the job and you're informed. Call a different shop around and ask for better pricing, or just demand better pricing from the Service Manager. Dangle the "Survey" in front of him and tell him you'll write up a glowing review of the service for the Dealership if he helps you out.

 

[nissanh]

Are you good with wrenching? If so, all you need is 10, 12 and 14 mm and few extentions to replace this bracket. Fan bracket can be done in max in 2 hours, because I did it about an year ago. Man $ 1750 is brutal! You know I would not take 20+ year old vehicle cross country if I am not familier with wrenching. I do carry tools that is enough to do any major repair. Feel your pain, wish I was near.

 

[BReynolds]

Are you good with wrenching? If so, all you need is 10, 12 and 14 mm and few extentions to replace this bracket. Fan bracket can be done in max in 2 hours, because I did it about a year ago. Man $ 1750 is brutal! You know I would not take 20+ year old vehicle cross country if I am not familier with wrenching. I do carry tools that is enough to do any major repair. Feel your pain, wish I was near.

I’ve built engines and can turn wrenches but and am at their mercy.

 

[suprarx7nut]

You're getting screwed...They have you over a barrel and they're taking advantage. You're looking at less than $500 in parts and less than a day of work for everything (timing belt kit, water pump, fan bracket, cam and crank seals). I would expect a dealer price to be in the $12-1500 range. You definitely want to do it all at the same time.

If you damaged your radiator or broke the fan that is a different story.

A day of dealer labor is $1400 for just the labor. $1000 for an unusually cheap dealer labor rate.

@BReynolds I wouldn't say you're getting screwed, but that's not cheap. Where in the country are you? If there's a Toyota/Lexus indy shop within 30 miles you could probably have it towed to the other shop and come out ahead.

Or if you're handy, buy a set of tools at the local auto parts store, buy the new bracket and other bits from the dealer and wrench it yourself in the parking lot.

I feel for ya. I've had my fair share and then some of road trip failures. It's never fun.

 

[cmw]

Tell us where you are currently - maybe someone knows a good alternative nearby.

 

[MechE30]

Conversely I (and Otramm on YouTube, a Toyota tech) would recommend to NOT replace cam and crank seals unless they’re leaking.

 

[rexington14]

Any warning signs on the fan bracket going out (front end noises, wobbling fan) or was this a sudden failure? When was the last time it was checked by hand spinning with the belt off?

 

[Mike NXP]

You're not getting screwed it's their labor rate X whatever amount of hours Toyota charges. I think I paid similar at one point to get it all done. . They're not charging you extra because your in distress.

Bust out the credit card, get it fixed, and move on. By the time you pay to tow it elsewhere just to save a few hundred and waste more time. BUT make sure they replace timing belt tensioner and other bits while in there. I don't agree with replacing cam or crank seals unless they are leaking. They don't leak often on the 2UZ unless oil changes are neglected or overheated.

Oh and request / beg they put a master tech on it , someone with experience doing this job . Can't hurt to ask.

 

[rexington14]

You're not getting screwed it's their labor rate X whatever amount of hours Toyota charges. I think I paid similar at one point to get it all done. . They're not charging you extra because your in distress.

Bust out the credit card, get it fixed, and move on. By the time you pay to tow it elsewhere just to save a few hundred and waste more time. BUT make sure they replace timing belt tensioner and other bits while in there. I don't agree with replacing cam or crank seals unless they are leaking. They don't leak often on the 2UZ unless oil changes are neglected or overheated.

Oh and request / beg they put a master tech on it , someone with experience doing this job . Can't hurt to ask.

I'd assume that at a dealer the quoted price for the "fan bracket including the timing belt" also includes the water pump, TB tensioner + idler, Thermostat, and serp belt at a minimum. But definitely double check, and negotiate those items in if not. This job is nothing new to a dealer.

Agreed it's not worth the hassle to save a few hundred, especially if you have family with you, are on vacation, etc...

 

[Bisho]

Conversely I (and Otramm on YouTube, a Toyota tech) would recommend to NOT replace cam and crank seals unless they’re leaking.

I recall he did not recommend changing the seals on VVTI engines in his videos, unless they are leaking, because I believe its major surgery on the VVTI. I guess it depends on how many miles your truck has, and your tolerance for rolling the dice on needing to tear down later to replace a leaking seal. With 280k miles on mine, it was a no brainer, and probably only another hour of labor.

 

[MechE30]

I recall he did not recommend changing the seals on VVTI engines in his videos, unless they are leaking, because I believe its major surgery on the VVTI. I guess it depends on how many miles your truck has, and your tolerance for rolling the dice on needing to tear down later to replace a leaking seal. With 280k miles on mine, it was a no brainer, and probably only another hour of labor.

From my recollection (and from a Toyota tech friend who told me the same) it was more due to the sealing surface having a groove worn in it. Trying to set the new seal at the exact depth of the groove would be very difficult. I left mine at my last tbelt change for that reason.

Maybe my Otramm reference was mixed up with a comment on the pinion flange of a diff rebuild. Similar situation but you can replace that flange.

 

[medtro]

I don't agree with replacing cam or crank seals unless they are leaking. They don't leak often on the 2UZ unless oil changes are neglected or overheated.

The newest 100 is 16 years old now. Why risk paying the same labor to have them replaced when they leak? Is there any down side to have them replaced? I would replace them unless it is VVTi. The expert below summarized it very well in a single sentence.

Going in that far and not changing the cam and crank seals is like taking a shower and then putting your dirty clothes back on.

 

[Mike NXP]

The newest 100 is 16 years old now. Why risk paying the same labor to have them replaced when they leak? Is there any down side to have them replaced? I would replace them unless it is VVTi. The expert below summarized it very well in a single sentence.

Meh, I hear ya'...I didn't do the repair on my own and I get worried some technicians could make a proper factory seal worse by replacing what isn't broke.

 

[Patassa]

Meh, I hear ya'...I didn't do the repair on my own and I get worried some technicians could make a proper factory seal worse by replacing what isn't broke.

It's a valid concern. Factory trained toyota technicians have screwed up several jobs on my 100 series. One almost caused me to overheat, thankfully I was tipped off that something was screwed up from the dripping coolant on my driveway and was watching the gauge like a hawk and immediately killed the engine while on an on ramp to the interstate. On a previous timing belt job they managed to strip out one of the pully bolts that I still haven't properly dealt with, just used a thinner washer to grab a couple of deeper threads and crossed my fingers. We like to imagine these guys are experts, like the people who built the vehicle at the factory, that's just not the case though.

 

[nissanh]

When I did my t-belt job at 222K miles, I did NOT replace cam and crank seals and I am at 254K miles and still no leaks. You can get it replaced, but you may have a peace of mind if it is replaced by an expert or can lead to disaster if it is replaced by a clown. Overall those seals in mine are still OEM at 254K miles. Same with my 4R 220K miles with OEM crank seal.

You are far ahead of my wrenching skills. You know, make a video of you working on the truck and post it on youtube. there are ton of people who likes to watch road side repairs and you can earn some income too!

 

[Bisho]

When I did my t-belt job at 222K miles, I did NOT replace cam and crank seals and I am at 254K miles and still no leaks. You can get it replaced, but you may have a peace of mind if it is replaced by an expert or can lead to disaster if it is replaced by a clown. Overall those seals in mine are still OEM at 254K miles. Same with my 4R 220K miles with OEM crank seal.

You are far ahead of my wrenching skills. You know, make a video of you working on the truck and post it on youtube. there are ton of people who likes to watch road side repairs and you can earn some income too!

On the non VVTI, those seals are pretty easy to change, and you'd have to work pretty hard to screw them up. I'm sure someone has figured out how to do it, though. Now, I wouldn't advocate changing them every timing belt, but there comes a point where you are rolling the dice, and for me at 280k I wasn't willing to leave it to fate.