Heater T's the $1 version

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For those of us who skipped Metallurgy 101, could you provide the punch line...
- Is .35 and .95 very dissimilar? Hard to tell with only two numbers and zero knowledge of the category. If you told me those are very similar because the scale is .0000005 up to 500, I'd have to believe you (remember that part about not taking Met101)
- What's "fast" and what's "severe" for a galvanic reaction in this case?

Or, just skip to the "Don't do it" vs. "Should be fine" punch line

Thanks ;)

Now Im going going after the state for screwing my life up for not offering Metallurgy 101 in prison.
 
Wouldn't the galvanic corrosion be limited to the inside of the coolant passages in the head? I can't imagine it'd eat all the way through into something meaningful. And isn't there a big copper chunk on the back of the thermostat, that sits right in an aluminum housing?

EKK! our 100s are doomed
 
Actually, would it corrode the copper or the aluminum faster?
 
For those of us who skipped Metallurgy 101, could you provide the punch line...
- Is .35 and .95 very dissimilar? Hard to tell with only two numbers and zero knowledge of the category. If you told me those are very similar because the scale is .0000005 up to 500, I'd have to believe you (remember that part about not taking Met101)
- What's "fast" and what's "severe" for a galvanic reaction in this case?

Or, just skip to the "Don't do it" vs. "Should be fine" punch line

Thanks ;)

For harsh environments, such as outdoors, high humidity, and salt environments fall into this category. Typically there should be not more than 0.15 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For example; gold silver would have a difference of 0.15V being acceptable.


One thing about all this, from what I understand, there has to be ion flow for the galvanic reaction to happen. So in a battery where there is a lot of ion flow, it would happen rapidly. In our battery of a coolant system, there is very limited ion flow so the reaction would be very limited as well. I think thats right.
 
The reason I mentioned it is that in the uk if you have moss growing on your roof you can fit a bare copper wire along the top of the roof to kill it and stop it growing, but this will corrode a aluminium guttering if fitted. Not sure how this would translate into a coolant system but it is something to consider.
 
After a couple minutes more of research, it appears coolant may be a non-electrolyte meaning there is no conductivity between the Cu and the Al and thus no galvanic reaction.
 
After a couple minutes more of research, it appears coolant may be a non-electrolyte meaning there is no conductivity between the Cu and the Al and thus no galvanic reaction.

Now I can delete my LX470 for sale ad
Thanks for saving my Lexus
 
For those of us who skipped Metallurgy 101, could you provide the punch line...
- Is .35 and .95 very dissimilar? Hard to tell with only two numbers and zero knowledge of the category. If you told me those are very similar because the scale is .0000005 up to 500, I'd have to believe you (remember that part about not taking Met101)
- What's "fast" and what's "severe" for a galvanic reaction in this case?

Or, just skip to the "Don't do it" vs. "Should be fine" punch line

Thanks ;)

I posted the link so those who didn't know about galvanic corrosion, or the way its potential is measured, could educate themselves.

I'm not a metallurgist, I'm not qualified to make the distinction of "don't do it" or "should be fine". Take Phil's experience of having them installed for a coulple of years and do it, take the potential for galvanic corrosion and don't do it, or research some and make your own educated decision.
 
Yes, it would be nice to have the original made out of metal, but so far, the average T's last ~10yr (maybe more).

This is kind of what I was thinking. I assume very small amounts of Cu eventually react and pit the Al block. That will likely take years though based on the large volume of coolant and small amount of Cu that will enter solution.

So, is the thinking is that they will both last about the same time but will deteriorate due to different factors? :hillbilly:
 
For harsh environments, such as outdoors, high humidity, and salt environments fall into this category. Typically there should be not more than 0.15 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For example; gold silver would have a difference of 0.15V being acceptable.


One thing about all this, from what I understand, there has to be ion flow for the galvanic reaction to happen. So in a battery where there is a lot of ion flow, it would happen rapidly. In our battery of a coolant system, there is very limited ion flow so the reaction would be very limited as well. I think thats right.

Just make the T's out of gold - all is fine...
 
If you can be bothered to read it I just copied and paste this from a engineering article of aluminium vs brass radiators.

Galvanic corrosion occurs when an anode metal is in contact with a cathode metal through an electrolyte solution. The anode metal will dissolve and collect on the cathode metal producing an electrical charge as well as destroying the anode metal. This is how a battery works, but is quite destructive to a cooling system. The coolant can act as an electrolyte solution, particularly when tap water is used instead of distilled water and your antifreeze is not changed at the proper intervals. The additives in antifreeze that help protect against corrosion will breakdown which is why your antifreeze must be changed on a regular basis.

Galvanic corrosion requires dissimilar metals, and if you remember from our previous segment, Construction Differences, a brazed aluminum radiator is all aluminum where as a copper-brass radiator contains copper, brass, and a lead/tin solder. This solder makes a copper-brass radiator more susceptible to galvanic corrosion than aluminum.

If you know a little about the chemistry of aluminum and copper, you may be aware that copper has a higher nobility than aluminum. A metal’s “nobility” determines whether or not it will corrode when in an electrolyte solution with a dissimilar metal; however, in our case, this is a bit misleading. Copper may have a higher nobility than aluminum, but that simply means it is not the metal that will corrode. Instead, copper will attract the metal that does corrode, which will be the lead/tin in the solder since it has less nobility than copper and brass. When galvanic corrosion does occur, the solder holding the copper-brass core and headers together will deteriorate creating leaks and weak spots within the core.

Since modern vehicles and parts are designed for aluminum components, there is significantly less risk of galvanic corrosion with an aluminum radiator. If you are a die-hard copper-brass radiator fan, you may be tempted to replace the stock aluminum radiator with a copper-brass radiator. This would be an expensive mistake. While your copper-brass radiator would not be at risk of corrosion, all of the aluminum components that your coolant touches will be at significant risk of galvanic corrosion. That’s because, as we mentioned before, aluminum has less nobility than copper; therefore, it will corrode preferentially to the copper-brass. Needless to say, this means expensive repairs to your engine and other components.

Corrosion Review
While there are a few similarities to resisting corrosion between both aluminum and copper-brass radiators, there are some significant differences due to how each is constructed.

  • Aluminum
  • Radiator is all aluminum thanks to the brazing process, which reduces the risk of corrosion.
  • Protective oxide layer is highly resistant to corrosion and self repairing. Aluminum is added to many alloys to enhance corrosion resistance.
  • Most modern vehicles are designed for aluminum parts, reducing the risk of galvanic corrosion.
  • Copper-Brass
  • Radiator is composed of dissimilar metals due to the solder, which increases risk of corrosion.
  • Protective oxide layer is not as resiliant as aluminum’s, thus aluminum is often added to some brass alloys to improve corrosion resistance.
  • Most modern vehicles are not designed for copper-brass, increasing the risk of galvanic corrosion.

Due to the number of dissimilar metals in a copper-brass radiator, it significantly increases the risk of corrosion in a cooling system. Even if it isn’t the radiator itself that corrodes, it can cause other metal components in the system to corrode. Combining that with the fact that most vehicles and parts are designed around aluminum components, an aluminum radiator has less risk of corrosion than copper-brass.

This segment of our discussion has a significant impact on our over-all look at aluminum vs. copper-brass, but we did allude to the fact that you still have to maintain your antifreeze at regular intervals regardless of which radiator you use. So perhaps there are some differences in maintenance requirements that we need to look at. We’ll tackle exactly that in Part 4 of our discussion.
 
@Julian Stead if you want to read more about it pertaining specifically to engine coolant systems: San Carlos Radiator - Electrolysis Information

Cliffs notes: engine coolant when mixed with demineralized water is not an electrolytic solution initially. Over time the coolant breaks down into an acidic solution which is capable of electrolysis.

Still not joining the "is this safe or will it hurt something" debate, just giving more knowledge to go arm yourself with if you care to do so.
 
@Julian Stead if you want to read more about it pertaining specifically to engine coolant systems: San Carlos Radiator - Electrolysis Information

Cliffs notes: engine coolant when mixed with demineralized water is not an electrolytic solution initially. Over time the coolant breaks down into an acidic solution which is capable of electrolysis.

Still not joining the "is this safe or will it hurt something" debate, just giving more knowledge to go arm yourself with if you care to do so.

I did learn in electric school RO or distilled H2O is a very poor conductor its the junk in water that makes it a conductor.
 
Here's my $.02...use the copper T's and change your coolant every 2 years. Done. No worries.
Since the corrosives that you guys are worried about will be circulated with the coolant, flushing the cooling system every 2 years will remove all corrosive particles floating around causing harm.
 

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