headers

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by Overlord, Nov 11, 2005.

  1. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2005
  2. yetiman

    yetiman

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    running the MAF ceramic headers no problems so far I really like them. the only slight problem I had was a small leak at the egr tube but it was the factory 20yr old pipe causing the problem no the header, pretty easy fix though. If you do get some headers I highley suggest that you remove drivers side wheel, and interrior fenderwell for installl it will help alot. I think the header is of great quality, talk to steve real good guy!


    yetiman
     
  3. Overlord

    Overlord

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    I'm doing a desmog so I'm not worried about the EGR. :)

    BTW, how long have you been running the MAF header?
     
  4. yetiman

    yetiman

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    sorry went out of town for a few days. I have had the headers on for a couple months.
     
  5. sl33py

    sl33py

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    I am also thinking of the ceramic headers... did you notice any performance (on a 60...yeah yeah i know) difference?

    thnx!

    rob
     
  6. MR.FJ60

    MR.FJ60

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    I'm also running MAF ceramic header along with their Hi-po engine and they sounds great. Now leaks also did de-smogg at the time, very good looking header for sure. Good luck.
     
  7. Tinker

    Tinker

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    I liked mine before the head/gasket gave out & I gave up on that engine. Wrapped it with insulation to keep the under-hood temp down & increase the scavenging effect. Seemed to add a little more power & throttle response, plus sounds better.

    It's for sale - less than 2K mi: headers & Y-pipe for an '83 with smog.
     
  8. Mark W

    Mark W

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    I just installed one of the basic six into one, non-coated MAF headers for a customer. Good thig he didn't do it himself. All of the cutouts where it mates to the intake and the bolts hold it to the head... Too large a radius. The bolts and captured washers went right through without clamping the header at all.

    It wasn't that big a deal to weld some new material in and shape it with a angle grinder and die grinder. It would have sucked if he had attempted it at home in the garage himself with out the tools to address the flaw though. :(


    Mark...
     
  9. Tinker

    Tinker

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    I'm always amazed when I hear a shop elected to modify an off-the-shelf part because it was "flawed" rather than asking the supplier to make it right. The shop that did my 5.7 Vortec/4L60E conversion told me Downey's speed sensor was "incorrectly machined" so they "fixed" it themselves in about "4 hours" & wanted me to pay for it. I told them hell no, that's what telephones & FedEx are for.

    I'm in the glass business & use the best suppliers on purpose. If a part isn't right & we can fix it easily, we do, for free. If not, it goes back.

    The MAF 6-2-1 ceramic coated fit perfectly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2005
  10. Mark W

    Mark W

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    When you live in Alaska and you have the ability to fix a basic flaw in a simple product like this rather than shipping it back to a lower 48 supplier... That's what you do.

    You seem to imply that I was incorrect im my determination that the header was not right and that I should have called MAF to get their opinion???? I think that I am qualified to make a call on something this freaking simple.

    I could have simply called my customer and told him that the header he brought to me to install wouldn't fit and let him call MAF I guess. Figure a week of run around and shipping time with the rig disabled in the shop and undrivable. IF he was lucky. And maybe the new header would not be exactly like the one already in hand. And maybe he wouldn't get stuck with extra shipping charges to boot.

    And who exactly would have benefitted from this approach? MAF? Their/my customer? Me?

    Oh yeah... Downey and speed sensors. I've had one of their newer ones in my hands. It WAS incorrectly machined for the application it was sold for. We DID talk to Downey about it. They tried initially to say that we must be wrong because they didn't make mistakes like that. Then admitted that they weren't aware of all the differences in the units the sensors were marketed to fit.

    We fixed it ourselves. Didn't take any more time at the Lathe than the time already wasted on the phone.

    FWIW, four hours of machinist labor to fix a part that IIRC costs under $200 sounds like a ripoff to me.


    Mark...
     
  11. beaufort-fj60

    beaufort-fj60

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    this is the reason I keep putting off getting the headers. seems like there are just as many comments like this than there are comments saying how great they fit. Some say the factory exhaust manifold is just fine and why put a hot rod part on a tractor. And to top that off I remember some saying that to get the full benefit of the header you need to change the cam.

    i don't know, if i did put them in it would just be for "looks". I'm not sure if anything could help the "looks" of my engine compartment
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2005
  12. Mark W

    Mark W

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    I'm a strong proponent of headers on a 2F It makes a noticable difference on most engines. Even stock ones.

    I personally have encountered few problems with any of the headers currently available new on the market. There were a lot of fitment problems with some of the older ones. Problems with new headers are the exception, not the rule.


    Mark...
     
  13. beaufort-fj60

    beaufort-fj60

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    Mark,

    then what's the big differnce between a new two piece and a new one piece header? does one style have an advantage over the other?
     
  14. lovetoski

    lovetoski SILVER Star

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    For colder climates (like yours!) do you recommend the intake manifold heater along with the header?
     
  15. Mark W

    Mark W

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    The sellers of the two piece designs claim that they are less likely to warp. But then they're not exactly an objective source either. As it happens, the worst case of header warpage I have ever seen personally was a two piece (downey) header. I've got a brand new Downey two piece (smog legal) unit in the box still at the shop. NICE unit. No complaints about the apparent quality and no expectations that the warping of the one I encountered is any sort of routine occurance.

    But even in older used headers, warpage is not as bif a deal as many make it out to be. It happens, but not routinely and seldom beyond the ability of a well tightened double gasket application to solve.

    IMHO one or two piece really makes little difference. Find a good price from a reputable vendor/manufacturer and you'll be happy.

    I have been pleased with the SOR two piece design. Once I addressed the overlarge cutouts on the MAF header mentoned above it fit well and seal perfectly. I have to assume that themistake in this respect is not common to all of their headers. They'd be getting a lot back if so.


    Mark...
     
  16. Mark W

    Mark W

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    I consider it a requirement in cooler climates. Not having it makes a big (negative) difference in warm up and in overall performance.



    I also make use of the fluid heat exchanger as part of a further upgrade.

    Install an external, tank type block heater. For those not familiar with what this is, it is a electric heater that is plumbed into the cooling system to circulat (convectively) the warmed coolant through the engine. In extreme temps block heaters of this or other types are practically a requirement.
    WHen you have a fluid heat exchanger modification on the intake you canheat the intake manifold and the carb in addition to heating the block. This makes a TREMENDOUS difference in starting characteristics when it's cold.

    Use the block drain plug to connect to the intake side of the tank heater. Plumb the output of the heater into the heater hose which is going into the intake manifold heat exchanger. When the engine is turned off and the heater is plugged in, cold coolant is sucked into the bottom of the tank and HOT coolant flows out the top. It passes through the ntake manifold exchange chamber before flowing into the block and eventually back out the drain plug and to the heater to start the curcuit again.

    While a freeze plug heater does a more effecient job of heating the block itself, the convective spread of heat into the manifold if minimal to the point of insignificance. Cold manifold, cold air and cold fuel leads to poor starting and slow warmup. But... When a tank heater is plumbed the way I describe, the mainfold is warm, the carb is warm and the fuel in the carb is warm. Big difference.

    I do both (freeze plug and tank) heaters on my rigs.


    A couple of winters ago I forgot to plug one of my rigs in overnight. It was a little finicky and unlike others it refused to start at -25F the next morning. Instead of cranking 'til the battery was dead, I plugged it in and gave it about 20 minutes. When I came back out, the intake was actually warm to the touch. The rig fired up immediately without even needing any choke. As quickly as if it was a warm summer day.


    Anyway, the short story was the first couple of lines of my reply. ;)

    Even in less extreme temps the manifold heat exchanger is a big plus and you will notice the difference. I have actually seen carb icing occur in a rig with a header and no heat excahnger.
    In extreme temps a header equipped rig may never run properly no matter how warm the rest of the engie gets if it does not have a heat exchanger installed.. :(


    Mark...
     
  17. Tinker

    Tinker

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    Mark -
    Sounds like you saved your customer's fanny by fixing the header he brought to you. What I meant to imply was that shops need to apply pressure on vendors that supply incorrect parts.

    It's a whole different animal when a customer brings you a part to install. Kinda like taking a DiGiorno to Pizza Hut & asking them to cook it for you.

    I believe in letting the shop supply the parts unless you have a clear understanding beforehand that you want something specific that they can't or don't want to supply. Costs the customer more IMHO, but the shop gets the markup & will deal with any problems with the supplier. Plus, it's about the only way to get the expertise of the shop on what's good & works.
     
  18. sportbiker929

    sportbiker929

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    -25, Man I wouldn't leave bed if it was that cold!
     
  19. Godwin

    Godwin Resident Herpetologist SILVER Star

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    I've been rethinking the use of headers from the reliability perspective. I have a set of Downey headers that have been in use for about 10 years and 150k miles. These headers are cracked at joints and need replacing. Maybe this is a typical life span for a header, I don't know.

    A more dramatic example of header failure was in this thread https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=66419&highlight=header+leak. The header was on the 60 when I bought it and I don't know the history of it, and I've since gone back to a stock manifold.

    I've reached the point with mods that I'd rather not gain a few hp and retain reliability, at least as far as headers are concerned.
     
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