Okay so I'm drawn to the Landcruisers, and Toyotas in general because of their reliability. I just got done reading a long thread about how the 95-97 models in particular are prone to Head Gasket failure - which is estimated as a $2500 job. WTF??!!! Yeah, yeah, yeah... 'if that's all we have to worry about then that's okay'. Well I am having a hard time swallowing the fact that if I get a used 80 that hasn't had the HG replaced that I will likely have to foot the bill for that one. Am I the only one here that sees this as a huge negative??
Head Gasket issues??
- Thread starter condoor
- Start date
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What else are you going to buy?
>> Am I the only one here that sees this as a huge negative?? <<
Wait 'till you get to the greasy knuckle threads and the leaky moonroof theads and the alarm antenna threads.
Focus on the positives in life and you will find that the glass truly is half full... or maybe the glass is simply twice as big as it needs to be. (Shamelessly stolen from George Carlin)
-B-
Wait 'till you get to the greasy knuckle threads and the leaky moonroof theads and the alarm antenna threads.
Focus on the positives in life and you will find that the glass truly is half full... or maybe the glass is simply twice as big as it needs to be. (Shamelessly stolen from George Carlin)
-B-
- Thread starter
- #4
Well I'm looking in the 15-20k range. I'm not really interested in turning this into a 'wheeling' vehicle until MUCH further down the road so the landcruiser's superior offroad manners aren't really a factor (though I can't argue that they are superior). But back to your question... in that range I have narrowed it down to the following:
99+ Lexus RX300
99ish 4Runner
99ish Mercedes 320 SUV
99ish Range Rover 4.6HSE
00+ Jeep Grand Cherokee
Yeah - I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this list. Basically I need a nice SUV - leather, all the goodies etc, that I'm not going to have to put a bunch of money into in the next three years. I have always been a fan of toyota, and landcruisers in particular, but I'm starting to wonder if one of these others isn't a better choice given my needs and timing.
99+ Lexus RX300
99ish 4Runner
99ish Mercedes 320 SUV
99ish Range Rover 4.6HSE
00+ Jeep Grand Cherokee
Yeah - I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this list. Basically I need a nice SUV - leather, all the goodies etc, that I'm not going to have to put a bunch of money into in the next three years. I have always been a fan of toyota, and landcruisers in particular, but I'm starting to wonder if one of these others isn't a better choice given my needs and timing.
[quote author=condoor link=board=2;threadid=16168;start=msg154717#msg154717 date=1084314974]
99ish Range Rover 4.6HSE
00+ Jeep Grand Cherokee
[/quote]
Ya, those two screem reliabilty.
99ish Range Rover 4.6HSE
00+ Jeep Grand Cherokee
[/quote]
Ya, those two screem reliabilty.
tucker74
Moderator
[quote author=condoor link=board=2;threadid=16168;start=msg154717#msg154717 date=1084314974]
99+ Lexus RX300[/quote]
Why not just buy the Camry it's based on - has leather...
...guess we're back to the Cruiser?
Tucker
99+ Lexus RX300[/quote]
Why not just buy the Camry it's based on - has leather...
Great vehicle - if you only need to carry 4 people and limited stuff....
...again w/ the car thing...
That $2500 head gasket will look cheap after owning one of these...
I wont even go here - nice trucks until 60k or so (and you want to buy used?).
...guess we're back to the Cruiser?
Tucker
- Thread starter
- #7
I dunno landtank. The 4.0 inline six that Jeep has been using is easily a 2-300k engine without a $2500 mandatory head gasket job. Sure, they are prone to exhaust manifold leaks - $600, and rear mains - $500, but other than that they are fairly bullet proof. And those add up to far less than $2500. As for the Range Rover -yeah that's at the bottom of the list. I read a quote once on a range rover forum that said something like 'if you look under a rover and it isn't leaking - it's probably out of fluid!' - certainly not a poster child for reliability.
Maybe my expectations are out of whack here, as far as my vision of 'toyota quality', but I've owned two different '85 Toyota 4x4s. One of them I rolled and totalled with 173k miles on it with nothing but routine maintenance (they even rolled it back upright after the accident and it cranked right up and drove home), and the other one had 147k on the ticker (again with nothing but routine maintenance) when someone else thought they needed it more than me and stole it from my front yard. Not sure what my point is other than I find a $2500 'probable' maintenance item to be alarming.
Anyway, of my list the 4Runner and RX300 are at the top. (maybe the grand, but not sure.)
Maybe my expectations are out of whack here, as far as my vision of 'toyota quality', but I've owned two different '85 Toyota 4x4s. One of them I rolled and totalled with 173k miles on it with nothing but routine maintenance (they even rolled it back upright after the accident and it cranked right up and drove home), and the other one had 147k on the ticker (again with nothing but routine maintenance) when someone else thought they needed it more than me and stole it from my front yard. Not sure what my point is other than I find a $2500 'probable' maintenance item to be alarming.
Anyway, of my list the 4Runner and RX300 are at the top. (maybe the grand, but not sure.)
- Thread starter
- #8
tucker74 - yeah, it may actually come back to the cruiser, and that's okay. Or somethjing else may make more sense. I'm really just talking it out myself and hoping to get advice from people with more knowledge and experience than me.
As for the car option - we have some land listed in the foothills that requires a 'high clearance' vehicle to access, so I'm really needing an SUV.
As for the car option - we have some land listed in the foothills that requires a 'high clearance' vehicle to access, so I'm really needing an SUV.
[quote author=condoor link=board=2;threadid=16168;start=msg154730#msg154730 date=1084315709]
Not sure what my point is other than I find a $2500 'probable' maintenance item to be alarming.
[/quote]
I don't think I'd categorize this as a "probably" repair. Their was a poll done a while back, and while I can't remember the figures, it was more like 10% with HG problems IIRC. I don't think any SUV or truck is worth the troubles if you don't have a need for them, though from your list, I personally think the LC would be most cost effective in the long run. If used in a manner consistent with their qualities, they'll undergo a fair bit of wear and tear. If you only plan on driving this to the mall for several years before deciding what you'll do with it, maybe you don't need an SUV or truck right now. No offence, but consider what you want to do with the thing before you buy it--no matter what it is.
Not sure what my point is other than I find a $2500 'probable' maintenance item to be alarming.
[/quote]
I don't think I'd categorize this as a "probably" repair. Their was a poll done a while back, and while I can't remember the figures, it was more like 10% with HG problems IIRC. I don't think any SUV or truck is worth the troubles if you don't have a need for them, though from your list, I personally think the LC would be most cost effective in the long run. If used in a manner consistent with their qualities, they'll undergo a fair bit of wear and tear. If you only plan on driving this to the mall for several years before deciding what you'll do with it, maybe you don't need an SUV or truck right now. No offence, but consider what you want to do with the thing before you buy it--no matter what it is.
Look at the whole truck. There is no way a Jeep Grand is as reliable as the LC. I know too many people with them and they all have far too many other things going wrong that add up to more money than the LC even if the HG failed.
But if you're buying engine reliabilty only then a nice 22RE can't and will probably never be beat.
But if you're buying engine reliabilty only then a nice 22RE can't and will probably never be beat.
Pskhaat
Tourer
Why don't you buy a 91 - 92 FJ80? No HG issues.
Out of your list, I would most likely suggest the 4Skinner.
Out of your list, I would most likely suggest the 4Skinner.
while the 4.0 liter jeep motor is a bit of a tank the tranny behind it is an absolute peice of garbage. strictly boat anchor stuff. now the transmission behind the v-8 is quite a bit better. but then you have the issues of the v-8 motor. Iwont go into the rover as that is wasted breath. I will say the 300 if you just want a little better departure angles is a nice riding car base. the highlander is also nice and is basically the same. so I would then do the really important math wich is depreciation. once you figure how fast a jeep and a rover depreciate you will be drawn back like a moth to the true light. So you have a 10% chance of a head gasket issue. Who cares add up two to three timing belt changes on the runner and the rx and I do beleive you will be in the same boat cost wise. Really just decide what you want and what risks you are willing to take.
Dave
Dave
[quote author=condoor link=board=2;threadid=16168;start=msg154717#msg154717 date=1084314974]
99+ Lexus RX300
99ish 4Runner
99ish Mercedes 320 SUV
99ish Range Rover 4.6HSE
00+ Jeep Grand Cherokee
Yeah - I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this list. Basically I need a nice SUV - leather, all the goodies etc, that I'm not going to have to put a bunch of money into in the next three years. I have always been a fan of toyota, and landcruisers in particular, but I'm starting to wonder if one of these others isn't a better choice given my needs and timing.[/quote]
I was wondering when I would get to share this tidbit I found out about today while browsing through Consumer Reports at the bookstore...
According to Consumer Reports recommendations, based on the best and worst reliability reports, Jeep grand Cherokee is a "Worst Buy". It's not just a worst buy, they actually have another list that is a "Much Worse" than average section with only a few cars listed, the 00-03 Grand Cherokee is on that list.
Didn't look up the ML320, but I looked at them in the past and they had a poor reliability record (at least the 99-00)
Sounds like the RX300 would be good for your uses, especially if you are concerned about $$$, probably much better MPG. As long as you don't need something bigger or more "off-road" capable. I still prefer my LC to any of those though
BTW 195k on my 93 with (as far as I can tell) original headgasket, only done fluids, filters, brakes, and thermostat in the last 20k (since I bought it)
99+ Lexus RX300
99ish 4Runner
99ish Mercedes 320 SUV
99ish Range Rover 4.6HSE
00+ Jeep Grand Cherokee
Yeah - I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this list. Basically I need a nice SUV - leather, all the goodies etc, that I'm not going to have to put a bunch of money into in the next three years. I have always been a fan of toyota, and landcruisers in particular, but I'm starting to wonder if one of these others isn't a better choice given my needs and timing.[/quote]
I was wondering when I would get to share this tidbit I found out about today while browsing through Consumer Reports at the bookstore...
According to Consumer Reports recommendations, based on the best and worst reliability reports, Jeep grand Cherokee is a "Worst Buy". It's not just a worst buy, they actually have another list that is a "Much Worse" than average section with only a few cars listed, the 00-03 Grand Cherokee is on that list.
Didn't look up the ML320, but I looked at them in the past and they had a poor reliability record (at least the 99-00)
Sounds like the RX300 would be good for your uses, especially if you are concerned about $$$, probably much better MPG. As long as you don't need something bigger or more "off-road" capable. I still prefer my LC to any of those though
BTW 195k on my 93 with (as far as I can tell) original headgasket, only done fluids, filters, brakes, and thermostat in the last 20k (since I bought it)
well, I won't address the Range Rover and Heep issue 
but on the more significant side, I must say from reading (too much) this forum, that it does indeed seem that
a) there is a fair amount of work to do to keep these guys running to the high mileage they are capable of
or
b) it's expensive to keep them going
but
c) likely much less so than many other trucks and cars
or
d) this crowd is so enthralled with working on their rigs that they invent problems just to keep busy...
:whoops:
E
but on the more significant side, I must say from reading (too much) this forum, that it does indeed seem that
a) there is a fair amount of work to do to keep these guys running to the high mileage they are capable of
or
b) it's expensive to keep them going
but
c) likely much less so than many other trucks and cars
or
d) this crowd is so enthralled with working on their rigs that they invent problems just to keep busy...
:whoops:
E
R
robbie
Guest
I think at 2500 some one is taking advantage of you for a HG replacement. I think the bill is closer to 1500. The job is only 15 hours long (times shop rate). It can become more costly if the head needs work (at a machine shop), the radiator needs replaceing (about 400-500), or other componets of the cooling system needs replacing.
It does sound like the RX 300 would fit your description better.
robbie
It does sound like the RX 300 would fit your description better.
robbie
Where the hell am I? 
You could also probably get a 98-99 100 series LC in that price range. There would be more miles of course to get to that price range. But I'd rather drive a higher mileage Toyota than a Grand Cherokee or Range Rover. This would get you away from your head gasket and axle seal fear.
I'd probably say the RX would be what I would buy or maybe the 4Runner out of the other choices in your list. An Occupational Therapist I work with drives an RX. It has like 170k on it and they've basically done nothing to it. She has a 120 mile commute every day. I think they've done brakes, tires, and a battery. I don't think they have even replaced the shocks. It rides nice still and is quiet. Used 4Runners almost retain their value too much in my opinion for what they are.
I'd probably say the RX would be what I would buy or maybe the 4Runner out of the other choices in your list. An Occupational Therapist I work with drives an RX. It has like 170k on it and they've basically done nothing to it. She has a 120 mile commute every day. I think they've done brakes, tires, and a battery. I don't think they have even replaced the shocks. It rides nice still and is quiet. Used 4Runners almost retain their value too much in my opinion for what they are.
I've known a few people that owned ML320's. They hated them.
Lots of problems and the MB dealers were not helpful.
HTH
Ed
Lots of problems and the MB dealers were not helpful.
HTH
Ed
