Gas PRICES

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OK Poindexter, ixnay my last comment and overlay with, "I just buy gas from whoever's cheapest." Apparently, some companies believe the crap they add to the gas which all comes out of the same pipeline is somehow superior, i.e. Chevreon with Techron TM. This gas is almost always one of the most expensive. I've run it, I've run every other fuel. I don't believe it makes a f**kin' difference.
I would venture to say Maverik is a little guy. Flying J, Piolet, ect.. These are much smaller companies around here than say, Chevron, Mobil, Shell, 76 ect.. The company sizes are smaller, they don't add a bunch of fluff, and their stuff is almost always cheaper.
And BTW, people will never quit bitching about this subject.
The real answers? 1)Get a car that gets incredible gas mileage.
2)Ride a bike
3)Walk
When the demand goes down, so will the price. Stay home for Memorial Day. The increase going on now is ultimately aimed at huge profits to be gained on MDay and the
4th of July. Ain't thadda bitch!
 
Phil, Are thoes prices in US Gallons or Liters? Last time I heard, it was about 3-4 dollars per liter in Germany. and we all know you need about 3.7l for one gallon.

I also agree that if you dont like the prices, then find a cheaper way. Ill continue to drive my unefficent vehicles because thats the way the cookie crumbles, If I couldent afford it., I wouldent drive it. But that dont mean im not going to Bitch about it. :flipoff2:

Europe (Germany in partictular) has always paid about 2-3.50 a liter. We have always paid 1-1.50 per gallon. 5 years ago I paid 70 Cents a gallon in Casa Grande.(that was in the summer time.. lasted for about 6 months.) Last time we had a war, gas prices didnt double. Why this time?
Supply and demand, maybe.. price gouging.. yeah.. but I think maybe a lack of Refineries could be the #1 reason.. If you want a finger to point at, Id point in the direction of thoes who dont and wont allow for new refineries to be built.. We have oil, lots of it.. just cant get it made in to Gas and Diesel fast enough for we the people. The last storm took out a refinery, why no plans to make a new one? now were one short.. so up goes prices.

I also like the idea of bio diesel and alt. Fuel. Which is why I decided to install a 12v Cummins and get rid of the extra thirsty Toyota I-6. As soon as shes up and running, ill start trying my hand at refining used cooking oil. you can refine it for as little as 60 Cents a gallon, and you can even sell the by-products to soap makers, possibly allowing you to produce your own fuel for under .15 a gallon. You cant beat that. :cheers:
 
If it's true that every brand of gas is different, and the prices can vary 10 cents per gallon between brands, how come when the pipeline between Tucson and Phoenix broke a couple of years ago everyone was out of gas?

The truth is as long as we keep sucking up every gallon of crude they pump out of the ground, OPEC can hold us hostage. On the other hand, when you look at our standard of living as compared to the rest of the world, and the percentage of our income that goes to pay for gas, we have nothing to complain about; and no one else will feel sorry for us.
 
RUSH55 said:
OK Poindexter, ixnay my last comment and overlay with, "I just buy gas from whoever's cheapest." Apparently, some companies believe the crap they add to the gas which all comes out of the same pipeline is somehow superior
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lexycrzy said:
If it's true that every brand of gas is different, and the prices can vary 10 cents per gallon between brands, how come when the pipeline between Tucson and Phoenix broke a couple of years ago everyone was out of gas?
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I'd like to address both of these comments at the same time....Yes the gasoline that come to the PHX area all comes though the same pipe to get here, even all the differant grades of fuel ie 87/89/91 they all come though the same pipe as one another....but at the fuel depot is where the additive packages are added, if you go west on Van Buren(past the hookers) you'll see the big asss fuel depot on the west side of town, and if you sit and watch you'll notice Exxon truck only goto certian pumps, and Chevron trucks go to other pumps.

As far as additive packages go, I have no idea if any of them work or not, although I would imagine anything harsh enough to remove/desolve deposits on fuel injector(if that even ever happens) can't be good for prolonged use in your engine...


I've also read that companies like Arco and whatnot buy the fuel closest to the grade change, meaning when 10,000,000 gallons of 87 octane get pumped though the pipe and the next 10,000,000 gallons are supoosed to be 89 octane companies like Arco buy that...Now I can't imagine how much mixing of octanes their could be in 600+ miles of flowing though a pipe their could be, but it was enough to convince me not to buy my 91 octane for my civic(12.1:1 Compression Ratio) from Arco on the off chance that there may have been enough mixing with lower octanes to lower the octane rating by 0.5 or more....
 
Relix said:
I've also read that companies like Arco and whatnot buy the fuel closest to the grade change, meaning when 10,000,000 gallons of 87 octane get pumped though the pipe and the next 10,000,000 gallons are supoosed to be 89 octane companies like Arco buy that...Now I can't imagine how much mixing of octanes their could be in 600+ miles of flowing though a pipe their could be, but it was enough to convince me not to buy my 91 octane for my civic(12.1:1 Compression Ratio) from Arco on the off chance that there may have been enough mixing with lower octanes to lower the octane rating by 0.5 or more....
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your close, check this out,,,,

the different grades as well as the different company fuels, i.e. chevron, exxon, ect. are seperated by water pumped through the line. so, the grades dont mix at all, and the fuels aditives dont mix either,(mixed at the source not here at the depot) sometimes the water isnt completely seperated with the lower priced companies and its that tiny bit of water that people talk about "bad gas" at some stations, like arco and mom-n-pop pumps.
 
No way. Where'd you hear that? Sounds like BS to me, there's no reason to rinse the lines with something incompatible with fuel. At least, no reason I can imagine.

-Spike
 
This is where politics comes in:

In Germany, gas prices are kept high (by taxes) to encourage people to use other modes of transportation. The trains and public transport systems are subsidized for the same reason. Remember, unless in rural areas, public transport is a wide-ranging net of rail, light rail/underground, buses, and even ships/ferries that covers whole Germany like a spidernet. Due to the public financing via taxes, the prices are quire affordable, and numerous incentives for frequent users exist. Cars, cars, cars are choking the cities and roads of a country with a high population density that is also home to many 'drive-through' vehicles, particularly heavy trucks. They just recently adopted a toll for the trucks on highways, but likely, this will only lead to more congestion on roads. A second wave in favor of higher gas prices came with the 'green movement' in the 80s; presumably, high gas prices are good for the environment. Thus, for various reasons and with different emphasis over the years, the policy of keeping gas prices high has been in place at least since the early 70s.

In addition, cars are taxed (personal property tax) according to displacement; this is also to induce people into driving smaller cars, which are usually more fuel efficient and less polluting. And while cars in general are smaller over there, Germans have taken to bigger and bigger cars over the years just as Americans have. In fact, the '3 liter car' (78.4 mpg) sold so poorly that VW discontinued it (it was small, but otherwise really nothing wrong with it; it also had no whow factor whatsoever). Which goes to show that political rationales do not linearly translate into economic rationales. In other words: darn, the people do their own thing...........

Has the 'high-price gas' policy worked according to it's objective? Difficult to say since nobody did the control experiment...... These days, the lack of parking (very little parking is free) or the price of parking is adding to the cost of driving a vehicle into town rather than taking the bus. I would venture to say that people probably would have started to adapt much earlier if gas had been cheaper, and therefore more cars around and the cities would be truly and completely clogged. As it is now, the German government is reaping so much in gasoline taxes that it depends on that income for its regular budget.

With profiteering I mean gas companies and gas stations; how come Exxon had a recond year despite rising crude oil prices? Nomal economics would predict that their margin should actually shrink.........And have you ever noticed how fast stations raise their prices simply on account of rumors of what happens to tomorrow (wheather and otherwise?); and this is despite having long-term supplier contracts on fixed prices.........
 
spike, tis true. theyre not rinsing the lines they are keeping the different fuels seperate. those lines are always full from start to finish, its hydraulics. they cant charge appropriatly to the customer if the gas mixes on the way with another distributors fuel. you have to remember the additives are added at the start of the line not here in Phx. all that happens here is the fuel is distributed to the different tanks.
 
the gasoline that come to the PHX area all comes though the same pipe to get here, even all the differant grades of fuel ie 87/89/91 they all come though the same pipe as one another....but at the fuel depot is where the additive packages are added
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you have to remember the additives are added at the start of the line not here in Phx. all that happens here is the fuel is distributed to the different tanks.
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So, which one is it:confused:
 
you have to remember the additives are added at the start of the line not here in Phx. all that happens here is the fuel is distributed to the different tanks.


Additives are added here in Phoenix at the bulk plant rack. At least they were when I worked on the rack 12 years ago.
 
huh well heck phil, you would know, how does the fuel get here in the pipe??.

i think i got my info from science friday on NPR, they said its added on the shipping end, but if theyre wrong then maybe its not pushed with water either:whoops: now i'm confused.
 
Germany uses a lot of thoes taxes for thier roads... thier roads are composed of 8" thick concrete where ous are only half that a 4" then they lay down the asphalt. The roads, mainly the autobahn, have to be kept in the best of shape inorder for you to beable to travel at speeds in excess of 150-250mph. Our highways are not desined for speeds that high... they are too bumpy, pot holey, and wavey. You really start to notice how bad the roads are at speeds over 130mph.
 
RHINO said:
huh well heck phil, you would know, how does the fuel get here in the pipe??.

i think i got my info from science friday on NPR, they said its added on the shipping end, but if theyre wrong then maybe its not pushed with water either:whoops: now i'm confused.
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Sorry Rhino I cant help on there
 
Project FJ80 said:
Germany uses a lot of thoes taxes for thier roads... thier roads are composed of 8" thick concrete where ous are only half that a 4" then they lay down the asphalt. The roads, mainly the autobahn, have to be kept in the best of shape inorder for you to beable to travel at speeds in excess of 150-250mph. Our highways are not desined for speeds that high... they are too bumpy, pot holey, and wavey. You really start to notice how bad the roads are at speeds over 130mph.
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You are completely right on that one, road quality is MUCH better everywhere in Germany, not just the Autobahn. But in the grand scheme of things, most of the fuel taxes are actually NOT used on road construction or traffic but flow into the regular budget :frown: There is no stipulation that fuel taxes have to be used on traffic-related items as in this country.

Just a tidbit on public transport in the PHX area: I checked out how to get from FH to Kevin's shop in Mesa by bus: takes about two hours, 2 transfers (Scottsdale and Tempe), costs EXACTLY $ 1.25, can't beat that. :bounce: the only downside: NOT on a Saturday ! But on a weekday, the adventure alone would have been worth it ;p Bottom line: it's either time or money, can't have both.
 
i would happily commute to and from work everyday on public transit, but nothing runs as early as i start. i mean, its less than $4 a week and the maintinence to the commuter car would be like nill.

on the flipside, my only gripe about high gas prices are the lack of supporting infrastructure like europe has. i would happily pay $5 a gallon if we had the roads, schools and healthcare to back it up. oh well, i still pay the price, heck its a free country so ya gotta pay the price companies put on any product iffin ya want it. it would be interesting though if there were two kinds of gas available, the foo-foo high quality gas we have now with a price tag, or 3rd world quality gas at a buck a gallon sold through walmart or something. be interesting to see what would happen.
 
Walmart wold take over the world... that's what would happen.
 
BMAN said:
Walmart has taken over the world...
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There, fixed it for you ;)
 
RUSH55 said:
Blah blah blah....Satan-Mart ....blah blah....
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As much as I dislike that place, I have never heard it called Satan-Mart. The name is fitting.

And yes Bman, Satan-Mart has already taken over the world. It used to own your soul until Bill Gates bought it from them for $1.98 last year.

One last comment....gas prices suck, but diesel prices suck even worse. Time to buy one of these.

(to save you the trouble, it's a diesel powerd motorcycle based on a KLR650. Testing has shown 96mpg).
 
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