Frustrating Brake Issue (1 Viewer)

[scottcb]

After installing new OME suspension, new tires and replacing the right front axle seal and dealing with that whole mess successfully, I think I've now spent more time messing with my brakes. Frustrated and need help! Here's the saga:
When pulling the front hub apart to get the axle seal, I ended up pulling the caliper off and undid the flexible brakes hose because it was rotting. Aside from planning to replace it, it was just easier to get he caliper out of the way to clean it up. I put on a new rotor, reinstalled the caliper, new hose, new pads. I go to bleed the system and that's where I'm having issues. The 2 person method produced no fluid bleeding. So I got a cheap brake vacuum pump from Harbor Freight. I was able to get the Driver Rear to bleed with no bubbles after a pretty long time. It seemed I was leaking air a the bleed valve, so I put some grease around it and then the fluid ran clear. And I got the old fluid out. Moved on to the Passenger Rear and got nothing (FYI - I did not adjust the rear brakes before doing this but have read that it makes a difference. What would that do?). Even pulled the bleed valve off to see if it was just jammed up - no fluid came out. I pumped on it for a long time with to results. So I moved out of order to the Passenger Front (the side I rebuilt) and pumped for a while and got fluid to flow, but with tons of air. I never got to the Driver Front. That's where I gave up. I did keep the reservoir full. I've searched around on this forum and others and watched way too many videos. Because brakes are kind of important, I'm pretty close to going to a shop, but always hesitant because they don't really seem to either know a lot or have the patience to deal with elderly vehicles.
Thoughts? Help?
Question? Can you buy replacement bleed valves?
I now next time I pull the brakes, I'll either keep it all connected or seal the line I pull off.
As always, thanks in advance!
Scott

 

[Jaric00n]

Speed bleeder valves worked very easily....

do all four corners as you should.

=3

 

[morganism]

Is there a proportioning valve in line ? They can jam up, or get damaged if you really stand hard on the brakes for a long time.

 

[php74]

Did you completely remove bleeder to see if fluid was there? ... maybe clogged.

Also were brake pads pretty evenly worn?

 

[Jaric00n]

no leaks anywhere else?

o.o

 

[Willard]

no leaks anywhere else?

o.o

I am betting on this.

First you should be starting your brake bleeding this way. (make sure you keep topping off).

Passenger rear
Drivers rear
Passenger front
Drivers front

Could also be you have air in the master and it may need to be bled. You need to do it by itself.

Either way those HF bleeders are complete crap.

One way you can do this is how I did it for years until I got a pressure bleeder.
https://www.amazon.com/Performance-...rd_wg=EPcHr&psc=1&refRID=D8S1XZ2BWP9EBVRMM5BF
Is similar to what I use to use into a pop bottle I just removed the one end and stuck it directly on the brake bleeder.
I have done more brakes with this than I can even remember.

 

[OSS]

When you say you "pumped on the passenger rear for a long time and nothing came out", was the end of the bleeder hose submerged in brake fluid with bubbles coming out? Or were you pumping and nothin was happening?

It doesn't take too many pumps to move fluid from the master cylinder all the way to rear wheel. If you were pumping and nothing was happening for a long time, that's an issue with the master cylinder. It likely got air in it at some point during the brake jobs (super easy to do / too low fluid in reservoir) and the bubble inside it now is interfering with its operation.

Try clearing it out first via the shortest route - the Front passenger bleed screw.

Once that section runs bubble free, try bleeding the right rear again.

 

[scottcb]

Should have mentioned that I was not having issues with the brakes or pads or leaks prior to now.
Answers to some of the reply questions from above:
- When you say you "pumped on the passenger rear for a long time and nothing came out", was the end of the bleeder hose submerged in brake fluid with bubbles coming out? Or were you pumping and nothin was happening? - Pumping with the hand vacuum pump, and nothing was coming out, no fluid. Pulled the bleeder valve and no fluid came out.
- Any leaks? - NO, no leaks anywhere else.
- First you should be starting your brake bleeding this way. (make sure you keep topping off). Passenger rear, Drivers rear, Passenger front, Drivers front. - Is this the correct order? I've also seen it Driver Rear, Pass Rear, Driver Front, Passenger Front.
- Did you completely remove bleeder to see if fluid was there? ... maybe clogged. - YES, but I did not pump the brakes, just pulled the bleed valve.
- Is there a proportioning valve in line ? - I DO"T KNOW. I didn't think the 60 has this.
I like the idea OSS. I'm wondering about the master cylinder now. I did bleed the front passenger side, fluid ran with lots of bubbles. But at that point I determined that the Harbor Freight vacuum pump had way too many places for it's own leaks and I could not tell where air was being introduced. The tool is now covered in silicon. I'll take it back as is just to show them what a POS it is.

 

[php74]

Eliminate to 5$ repair first by pulling the valve and pumping the brakes once. I’ve had to clean out my bleeders numerous times, betting that’s what it is.

 

[Willard]

The order i gave you is standard for just about every vehicle.

From the FSM in case you do not believe me.

 

[TLC Norway]

Is the master cylinder old?
Common issue is that the master rubs on crud/rust inside the far end of the cylinder wall when bleeding as the pedal goes in further than normal.
Easy to check, pull it apart, check seals and cylinder.
Hone if needed or replace.
If good, bleed the master directly, loop out of master directly into reservoir.
Start there, forget about the vac bleeder.

 

[scottcb]

A big thanks to @php74 and @Willard (and yes, your sequence worked - I only doubted because I found different sequences) and the rest of you fanatics. Found bleeder valves at Napa for $1.99 (AutoZone and Oreilly don't stock), replaced the back passenger side, and the system bled perfectly. I pushed all the old dark fluid out and am running clear now. Brakes seem to be working great, no other leaks detected. I'd never done a brake bleed and thanks to this group I avoided going to a shop to leave it with people who'd probably screw something up - I'd rather be the one to screw something up because then I know what I did. I'm amazed by how much I've learned and been able to do thanks to some time researching and paying attention to you all. Hopefully this thread will help some other first time, LC obsessed wannabe mechanic.

 

[g-man]

I do believe that with most vehicles the passenger rear is furthest from the master cylinder and so it makes sense to start here. BUT...you have to look at the hard lines. My 87 fj60 has a hard line running down the pass side frame to the rear. There it forks and runs the length of the rear axle housing to the driver's side. This to me looks like the longest run of brake line is to the DRIVERS side rear.

 

[2mbb]

The order i gave you is standard for just about every vehicle.

From the FSM in case you do not believe me.

View attachment 1695217

"BEGIN BLEEDING AIR FROM WHEEL CYLINDER WITH LONGEST HYDRAULIC LINE"

The master cylinder on the US cars is on the drivers side, but the hydraulic lines run across to the passenger side before dropping down to the front axle or right frame rail. The longest hydraulic path is to the drivers side (left side) rear, then right rear, then left front then right front.

I second the use of speed bleeders. Sold in pairs you can buy three pairs and use one in your clutch slave cylinder.