Front end issue (1 Viewer)

[AWOLDoc]

I need some sage advice from those smarter than me.
I have a front end clicking going over bumps off road on easy trails and when making 90 degree turns left or right on pavement at ~10-15 mph. I haven't wheeled it on anything "hard" recently (or ever).

I inquired about this briefly at the last meeting and took the given advice...but...

All new OEM parts to include bolts/washers/cone washers, etc. Noise didn't start until after the 7/19/22 work so I thought it was the tie rod ends or alignment. I took the wheel covers off after getting home from the meeting (20 minute drive) and could hold my hand against the outer hub without burning myself.

I put the front end up on jack stands and I tried to reproduce the noise turning the wheels left and right, jerking as hard as my old a$$ could on the wheels with them straight and at different points of turning the wheels and full lock left and right. I took the wheels off, removed the outer shaft flange and checked front axle hubs, knuckles, steering arms, tie rods as well as all bolts for proper torque specs. I checked the calipers and bolts for proper torque as well as bolts for all the bushings. I looked at the springs to make sure the ends were set against the "nubs" or stops. The differential fluids have been changed every 5,000 miles. The knuckles have plenty of molly grease. It doesn't matter if the front, center or rear differential is locked or unlocked, noise is still there. I have White Knuckle sliders, but no rubbing that I can detect ( I read and article that someone said this was the issue).

I took it to a mechanic to have him see if he could figure it out without success.

1993 HDJ81VXL

Done so far maybe related to this issue:
OME 2.5" lift (N-60018 and N-60020 shocks, Coil springs 2851 and 2860, castor bushings CA77B, steering stabilizer SD24) 5/22/21
OEM front and rear sway bar brackets, bushings and bolts 5/26/21
OEM bushings front and rear as well as rear upper control arms 10/9/21
OEM rear sway bar bushings and links 10/9/21
OEM Load sensing proportioning valve 11/15/21
OEM Brake lines/load sensing bracket 11/15/21
OEM Power steering pump/hoses/hard lines 1/2/22
OEM new front brake calipers/rotors/pads replaced 4/4/22
OEM new backing plates/wheel bearings/knuckle bearings/birfields/hubs/axle shafts, Knuckle/birfield rebuild with OEM parts 4/4/22
OEM E-brake/calipers/rotors/pads rear 4/29/22
OEM Hubs/bearings/rear axle shafts 4/29/22
OEM Rear propeller shaft, U-joint 4/29/22
OEM Front propeller shaft, U-joint 7/19/22
OEM Steering tie rod ends 7/19/22
Tire rotation and front end alignment 7/19/22

 

[AWOLDoc]

 

[roadstr6]

Check your front upper shock nuts. They are difficult to get tight (especially on the driver side) and if they are even a little loose, they will rattle around in the mounts. They should be tight enough that the bushings squish a little. If they’re loose, you’ll see where they have moved around and the bushings have “cleaned” the dirt off the mount as they shifted.

 

[AWOLDoc]

Thanks. I will do that today when I get home from work.

 

[roadstr6]

I was listening to your videos again with better audio and it seems like the "clicks" have a resonant tone to them, almost like tapping a tuning fork. If that is what you are hearing, take a look at your upper front spring buckets...specifically the bump stop retainers inside the coils. It sounds like the bump stop retainers are making contact with the springs. That may be what's giving it a "pop-diiiing" sound.

Caster correction (either plates or offset bushings) tilts the front pinion (and the whole front axle) down. The tilt puts a bend in the front springs. As a result, the spring can sometimes make contact with the front of the bump stop retainer. If it's happening, you'll see witness marks on the bump stop retainer as well as inside a couple of coils of the coil springs.

I had this problem. I ended up taking an angle grinder and grinding a section of the lip off of the front of the bump stop retainer on each side. No more contact. No more noise. I was able to do this by lifting the truck by the frame so that the front suspension drooped down. There was enough space between the coils to get a grinder in there and carefully grind down that front lip.

 

[lumbee1]

Hey @AWOLDoc I'm in Holly Springs as well. @fourtrax is a little further south in Harnett county. Maybe we can meet up some time and take a look. Shouldn't be hard to identify the noise.

 

[AWOLDoc]

I'm going to get out on it this afternoon after work and take @roadstr6 suggestion and check the shock bolts. I already looked at the springs, but will recheck and post a picture if I can showing the end of the spring in relation to the bump stop retainers. If I have no luck there, I will take you up on your offer @lumbee1 because I have exhausted all my capabilities. Thanks to all for the recommendations. MTF.

 

[lumbee1]

I'm going to get out on it this afternoon after work and take @roadstr6 suggestion and check the shock bolts. I already looked at the springs, but will recheck and post a picture if I can showing the end of the spring in relation to the bump stop retainers. If I have no luck there, I will take you up on your offer @lumbee1 because I have exhausted all my capabilities. Thanks to all for the recommendations. MTF.

I sent you a PM.

I agree with @roadstr6 , the sound has a hollow resonant frequency like brake shields or sheet metal. It could also be sway bar or sway bar endlinks related since the sway bar is spring steel. I used a rubber mallet to find a rattle from my broken exhaust hanger but your sound seems to be coming from drive train rotation specifically.

 

[AWOLDoc]

I followed everyone's advice and checked the spring position, checked the shock bolts to make sure they were tight and followed the exhaust inspecting the hangers. I found one of the hangers' rubber section was torn, but still in place. I could move the muffler slightly and impact the truck body, but it wasn't the same sound. I then went by @lumbee1 who was a huge help rechecking my bolts, crawling under and using a rubber mallet to try and reproduce the sound. Looking at the muffler section I referred to and walking and listening as we drove over bumps to figure out the source of the noise. Drove by and saw @fourtrax and @4LowandSlow who crawled underneath after letting me drive through their ditch to listen and saw the radius arm bushings and Slee castor bushings CA77B looked to be bad. I'm ordering new bushings and will see if that corrects the "popping". I was very glad that it wasn't anything worse since I have replaced almost everything. Having this community as a resource and everyone's willingness to help is a testament to this club. I am so glad I found ONSC.

 

[roadstr6]

I followed everyone's advice and checked the spring position, checked the shock bolts to make sure they were tight and followed the exhaust inspecting the hangers. I found one of the hangers' rubber section was torn, but still in place. I could move the muffler slightly and impact the truck body, but it wasn't the same sound. I then went by @lumbee1 who was a huge help rechecking my bolts, crawling under and using a rubber mallet to try and reproduce the sound. Looking at the muffler section I referred to and walking and listening as we drove over bumps to figure out the source of the noise. Drove by and saw @fourtrax and @4LowandSlow who crawled underneath after letting me drive through their ditch to listen and saw the radius arm bushings and Slee castor bushings CA77B looked to be bad. I'm ordering new bushings and will see if that corrects the "popping". I was very glad that it wasn't anything worse since I have replaced almost everything. Having this community as a resource and everyone's willingness to help is a testament to this club. I am so glad I found ONSC.

I prefer the factory rubber bushings and caster plates instead of offset bushings for caster correction. You can replace those offset bushings now, but you'll be doing it again in a couple of years, depending on how much you drive the truck...and pressing in/out those bushings is a sh@t job. Can't beat the Toyota rubber bushings for durability, flex and ride quality.

 

[lumbee1]

I prefer the factory rubber bushings and caster plates instead of offset bushings for caster correction. You can replace those offset bushings now, but you'll be doing it again in a couple of years, depending on how much you drive the truck...and pressing in/out those bushings is a sh@t job. Can't beat the Toyota rubber bushings for durability, flex and ride quality.

The noise was coming from both the right and left sides of the Cruiser with the driver's side (RHD) being slightly louder than the passenger side and only during sharp turns on the street or when articulating over rough terrain. There was some muffler to body contact but that was a very different sound than the metal to metal "ting" we heard from the front. What we discovered was the inner sleeve on the Slee radius arm bushings were sliding inside of the polyurethane. In addition, @fourtrax noticed some odd bulging from the passenger side radius arm bushing on the front. I could not find witness marks on any of the linkages or springs but couldn't see very clearly inside the radium arm mounts. Both @AWOLDoc and I confirmed that the shock isolators were not bulging but they were as tight as they were going to get and there was no free play in the pin mounts.

We can call this one SOLVED when we get @AWOLDoc radius arm bushings swapped for OEM and the pinging is eliminated.

 

[AWOLDoc]

Thanks to everyone for the help. I wanted to post a quick update on what I have done so far,
I got in touch with Redback exhaust in AUS and finally found someone willing to ship to the USA. I installed a new full 3" Redback Extreme Duty inside the rail system two weekends ago. That takes care of the exhaust noise.

 

[AWOLDoc]

I mounted my two GoPro Hero Session 5 cameras on the underside of the truck attached to the rear of the radius arms and drove it around recording video to see if I could identify any rubbing. @lumbee1 and @fourtrax had walked next to the truck while I drove to create articulation and listened to the noise, so I thought I might be able to capture something on video this way. I could hear the noise on video, but couldn't see anything out of the ordinary. Probably didn't know what I was looking for.
I bought front sway bar spacers from @Hitit66 and installed them last night along with all new OEM front sway bar bushings. The PS (LH side for me) rear bushing was torn but both front bushings and DS rear bushing looked fine, but all were replaced since I had it off. Links had already been replaced and looked good.
Took it on the trail I had taken the video posted previously and no popping noise.
I plan to replace the bushings on the radius arms next week just so I can look at the OME castor correction bushings to see what @lumbee1 and @fourtrax had identified as well as peace of mind.
Think this is about wrapped up and will post pictures of the old bushings once I get them off.

 

[AWOLDoc]

Took the truck to get the radius arm bushings changed and the guy who was doing the work told me the front right shock was stripped out and the source of my issue. He didn't change the bushings on the radius arms saying they were solid and like new. He did put a different bolt, washer and bottom busing on my shock because he said it was stripped. I left the shop and turned left onto the street to hear the bolt, washer and bushing fall off. Good thing I had my window done, sounded like change hitting the floor. I stopped and found the washer, couldn't find the bushing or nut, and looked under the truck to see that they had in fact fallen off. He put another set on and offered to weld it in place, but I declined and just took it easy going home.
Talked to Dobinsons in Florida as soon as I got home and ordered new front and rear IMS (IMS45-60912, IMS59-60687). Thanks @lumbee1 for the advice and keeping me from spending more than I needed to on something that was likely too high speed for my use. Put the shocks on when they came in this afternoon (both bottom studs and nuts were stripped on the old shocks and a pain to get off) and went for a test drive. No popping, rides great, love the shocks.
Once I get the springs Dobinsons recommended to assist with the extra weight I am going to put in (drawers and LRA aux tank), I am going to change the radius arm bushings just for peace of mind and to make sure my caster is correct.
Thanks again to @lumbee1, @fourtrax, @roadstr6, and @4LowandSlow.