front bumper/bull bar

[spressomon]

^^^ The winch loads are better distributed per the way Christo has designed his Blueberry bumper. That is the reason I purchased his bumper...its hell for stout in all regards. And I'm also not aware of any other bumper mfg that is using high tensile steel...not to mention the gauges he employs.

 

[TeCKis300]

I have beentold by ARB that the weight difference between allo and steel isn't that much.
To get the strenght in alloy they need a thicker sheet and therefore more weight. It is a little lighter but not by much.
And as Slle said, is it for functional or astetic.
Mine will be functional for all the roos in the outback.

While AL has different strength qualities than steel, a comparable AL bumper should be doable at ~65% (~112lbs) of the weight. 60lbs may not sound like a lot, but it makes for a large difference due to its placement on the vehicle.

Now imagine that paired with a 9k winch with synthetic line and being no more than that original full steel bumper weight.

But there's nothing that says the AL version has to be every bit as strong, making an even lighter solution possible.


That said, I recognize that a large part of the customer base may not appreciate the potential of a light weight build. It's too easy to get drawn into the 'beefiness' or 'stoutness' of things without understanding that engineering is about balance where nothing comes for free. Where you may gain beefiness in one part, you trade off agility, durability, capability, or some 'ility' elsewhere.

Perhaps a workable option may not be AL at all. Something like a 'weight optimized' version in steel for those willing to pay incrementally more to cover the additional labor required to swiss cheese some of the internal or non vital bracing panels. Or even to reduce the thickness of certain panels in trade for ribbed/channeled/formed lip design.

 

[Wilsil]

Those who have installed a bullbar, did you need to adjust the torsion bars?
I am especially interested those with a LX470 with the AHC.

 

[FullyLitLED]

Those who have installed a bullbar, did you need to adjust the torsion bars?
I am especially interested those with a LX470 with the AHC.

For the TJM, no. For the ARB, yes. ARB is too damn heavy

 

[TheFuzz]

Those who have installed a bullbar, did you need to adjust the torsion bars?

Yes.

 

[sleeoffroad]

For the TJM, no. For the ARB, yes. ARB is too damn heavy

What is this comment based on? Do you have actual weights of all the bumpers? We have them for all ARB's. There is a big difference between the Sahara and other 100 series bumpers. Do you have the actual weight of the TJM bumper.

Also, adjusting torsion bars only preloads it in one direction. It does not provide added spring rate to accommodate extra weight. So while it does increase the ride height it does not improve the handling with the additional weight. So there is no hard and fast rule. It all depends on how you like the ride when done.

 

[FullyLitLED]

What is this comment based on? Do you have actual weights of all the bumpers? We have them for all ARB's. There is a big difference between the Sahara and other 100 series bumpers. Do you have the actual weight of the TJM bumper.

Also, adjusting torsion bars only preloads it in one direction. It does not provide added spring rate to accommodate extra weight. So while it does increase the ride height it does not improve the handling with the additional weight. So there is no hard and fast rule. It all depends on how you like the ride when done.

No Christo but going from the TJM hub to fender measurements when it was installed(20.75") on the front to the ARB installed hub to fender measurements (20.4"), I was assuming that the ARB is in fact heavier cos it sank the front by .35-.4" on both siders

 

[FullyLitLED]

What is this comment based on? Do you have actual weights of all the bumpers? We have them for all ARB's. There is a big difference between the Sahara and other 100 series bumpers. Do you have the actual weight of the TJM bumper.

Also, adjusting torsion bars only preloads it in one direction. It does not provide added spring rate to accommodate extra weight. So while it does increase the ride height it does not improve the handling with the additional weight. So there is no hard and fast rule. It all depends on how you like the ride when done.

No Christo but going from the TJM T3C hub to fender measurements when it was installed(20.75") on the front to the ARB installed hub to fender measurements (20.4"), I was assuming that the ARB is in fact heavier cos it sank the front by .35-.4" on both siders? I could be wrong though

 

[sleeoffroad]

T3 Classique was probably one of the lightest bumpers. I just wanted to point out that there is no general answer. Also the T3 Classique is no longer available afaik.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Those who have installed a bullbar, did you need to adjust the torsion bars?
I am especially interested those with a LX470 with the AHC.

AHC - Automatic Height Control - so it will adjust back to the original height when you install the bumper, provided the weight does to put the AHC system outside of it's designed weight limits.

 

[re_guderian]

...That said, I recognize that a large part of the customer base may not appreciate the potential of a light weight build. It's too easy to get drawn into the 'beefiness' or 'stoutness' of things without understanding that engineering is about balance where nothing comes for free. Where you may gain beefiness in one part, you trade off agility, durability, capability, or some 'ility' elsewhere...

I think what you're missing is the theory v reality trade off. Yes, a lighter bumper will result in theoretically better efficiency, but bumpers are usually paired with lifts, which are added for taller, wider, heavier tires, which usually require a rear bumper mounted spare, and the reason we're ditching the OEM bumper is so that we can bang it into stuff at low speeds, so we probably have sliders too... so that if by trading off strength to gain weight so I can go from 10.03 to 10.07 MPG and save $20.79 per year, I don't care. The "weight" given to the protection factor in a bumper purchase in most cases FAR outweighs any considerations for impact on fuel economy or drive train longevity, which are more than likely third order effects or less - i.e. lost in the noise. If it weren't so, we'd stick with the OEM bumper, right? I understand the theory of added weight, but man, if I throw my 60 lb dog in the back of the truck, there's my weight difference right there. Unless you could put some compelling numbers to the agility, durability, and capability, they are just theoretical talking points, given the wealth and years of real-world experience with these rigs and existing steel bumpers. A light-weight bumper just isn't solving a problem that anyone has right now. These trucks are pigs already.

 

[sleeoffroad]

I can see the market for lightweight replacement bumper at a lower cost. However how are you going to change peoples expectations that are going to buy that since it is lower cost, but then want it to perform like the HD versio after they forgot that they bought the low cost dress up bumper?

 

[spressomon]

The T3C I ran was a lighter weight bumper. In fact it was lightweight compared to my Blueberry bumper. But it was also a flexy bumper with a not so robust winch platform that was easily bent/twisted especially from off-angle pulls (winch plate) and easy brushes with tight trail saplings.

Light is as light does. But choices are good to have as all of our needs are a little different...as long as we realize the performance, durability and construction differences/pros/cons of each...

And I get the better engineered lighter weight bumper idea/strategy...but that usually results in even higher prices.

And well said re_guderian!

 

[hoser]

For aluminum, try contacting Aluminess in SoCal. My friend had one made for his Tundra that he is happy with.

 

[re_guderian]

Btw, I have a TJM T3 on my rig right now, and I'm under no illusions as to its flimsiness.

Typos sent from my HTC EVO using the IH8MUD app...

 

[Wilsil]

Thanks guys.

 

[TeCKis300]

I think what you're missing is the theory v reality trade off. Yes, a lighter bumper will result in theoretically better efficiency, but bumpers are usually paired with lifts, which are added for taller, wider, heavier tires, which usually require a rear bumper mounted spare, and the reason we're ditching the OEM bumper is so that we can bang it into stuff at low speeds, so we probably have sliders too... so that if by trading off strength to gain weight so I can go from 10.03 to 10.07 MPG and save $20.79 per year, I don't care. The "weight" given to the protection factor in a bumper purchase in most cases FAR outweighs any considerations for impact on fuel economy or drive train longevity, which are more than likely third order effects or less - i.e. lost in the noise. If it weren't so, we'd stick with the OEM bumper, right? I understand the theory of added weight, but man, if I throw my 60 lb dog in the back of the truck, there's my weight difference right there. Unless you could put some compelling numbers to the agility, durability, and capability, they are just theoretical talking points, given the wealth and years of real-world experience with these rigs and existing steel bumpers. A light-weight bumper just isn't solving a problem that anyone has right now. These trucks are pigs already.

Unfortunately, it’s not theory. Added weight causes a slippery slope of compromises and requirements. It’s a reality you have bought into that may meet your needs.

What I’d like to build may not suit the die-hards. I’m a firm believer of moderately enhancing a car without going overboard in any particular direction. To keep some semblance of balance especially given my 95% on road use.

I don’t want to go down the route where added armor automatically means changing out my suspension. As much as people like to complain about AHC, I really do like it in my truck and do not want to sacrifice it’s flexibility. I like the ride and handling options it affords me. With VVTi, my truck is actually not slow and I can drive and pass when and where I need at highway speeds on two lane roads. I don’t want to laiden the truck to where it becomes a tank and a choir to drive in the mountains. (Any driver that appreciates any type of cornering performance will feel 60 lbs hanging off the front end btw.) Yet it doesn’t mean I don’t want the added protection and safety of a winch bumper when traveling alone. There is definitely a place between tank armor and the stock tupperware. Think overlanding vs. rockcrawling.

My ideal build would be a front bumper winch combo (+150lbs), sliders (+80lbs), minor TB crank front and coil trim packers at the rear along with sensor height adjust for a minor static lift (.75”), and the 32.6” tires I have. This should still give me the full weight carrying capacity of stock. Possibly augment it with rear bags if I find myself packing heavy to reduce strain on the AHC bulbs and always allowing me to get into high clearance mode.

This should give me 90% of the capability of a 6000+ lb tank. Without undue compromises to on road performance.

I like to have my cake and eat it too which is why I bought into the LX470 in the first place.

I can see the market for lightweight replacement bumper at a lower cost. However how are you going to change peoples expectations that are going to buy that since it is lower cost, but then want it to perform like the HD versio after they forgot that they bought the low cost dress up bumper?

I’m fully aware that it’s hard to set customer expectations. And that your reputation for quality and bulletproof construction is not something you want to compromise by building a lesser product. The opportunity may be a higher end version as I suggested earlier where strength comes from added design sophistication to reduce weight for those willing to pay a premium.

 

[Wilsil]

TeCKis300 (what a name ), I am similar.
But I also want the best for the car.
Our LX470 will be only used as a touring car and will be towing a Kimberley Kamper SportsRV most of the time and for 4WD day trips.
I also like the suspension system, however I think the handling could be much better. Cornering needs to be much slower then I used to do in my Toyota Surf.

 

[patrickfinley]

My ideal build would be a front bumper winch combo (+150lbs), sliders (+80lbs), minor TB crank front and coil trim packers at the rear along with sensor height adjust for a minor static lift (.75”), and the 32.6” tires I have. This should still give me the full weight carrying capacity of stock. Possibly augment it with rear bags if I find myself packing heavy to reduce strain on the AHC bulbs and always allowing me to get into high clearance mode.

I think I'm with you on this. I'm not sure that I'll ever do rock crawling or hard core off roading. However I'd like to not be concerned to turn off the paved road onto the dirt less traveled. A medium level of protection with well behaved road manners would be ideal for me.

 

[BamaHeel]

I think I'm with you on this. I'm not sure that I'll ever do rock crawling or hard core off roading. However I'd like to not be concerned to turn off the paved road onto the dirt less traveled. A medium level of protection with well behaved road manners would be ideal for me.

Don't know how strong they are but you are probably looking for something like this:

Toyota Landcruiser 100 Series Estate Bull Bar | eBay

All you have to figure out is the shipping