For those who removed their AHC, what were the "gotchas" during install? (1 Viewer)

[Pyrenees]

Disclaimer: I know AHC is a touchy topic on this forum and I thank everyone immensely who has helped me with my stuff (big shoutouts to @2001LC @flintknapper @PADDO ). My AHC is working perfectly, but I tested 7 grads on the globes from H to L. The FSM says this is the minimum spec. When I bought the LX 470 over a year ago, it was at 9 grads. When faced with the prospect of spending an almost equivalent amount of money on replacing a mere component of a complex and aging system (19 years/180k mi), I decided to go with the safer route in the long run. New OEM Toyota LC rear $prings, new OEM Toyota LC shocks (cheap!) and used OEM Toyota LC torsion bars from a fellow mudder. This vehicle is my DD and I have kids + I want to DD this vehicle for at least 5 more years, so I decided not to risk it even if AHC is butter-smooth.

So, with that out of the way, my questions:

If you have deleted your AHC and installed a non-hydraulic option (Old Man Emu, factory Totoya parts, Strutmasters, etc), did you run into any weird s*** during the install?

Thoughts/questions:

- I will have to remove a bulb from the cluster for "AHC off" or something like that

- The rear shocks are troublesome to remove (something about drilling through the body? Can someone elaborate on that?)

- My go-to shop discussed the job (4x shocks, rear coils, TBs + alignment) and said it would be billed between 6-7.5 hours. Does this sound right?

- From what I understand, the Toyota OEM shocks come with the top nut and the cushions, but not the spacers/washers and apparently I need those and there are 4x per shock. I will assume that is true unless someone replies otherwise. I'd hate to order $160 worth of washers only to find out that they were included in the shocks.

- Are there any other vehicle system co-dependencies that I need to be aware of (i.e. ABS)? From what I understand, there are not any.

I'm asking these questions because a lot of this info is tribal knowledge scattered among various threads. I plan to do a full write-up of the parts I used and the outcome when it's done, I just need some sage advice on this.

Thanks!

 

[l3n0x]

Do you have rust on the undercarrige?

 

[nukegoat]

The washers can be made from the AHC washers with a teensy bit of grinding. A shop with a lift should take around 6 hours if they remove all the AHC lines and globes etc.

There are no tricks. It's just labor.

 

[Pyrenees]

Do you have rust on the undercarrige?

I have zero rust on the undercarriage. Was one of the main reasons I bought this 100 (you all told me, haha).

The washers can be made from the AHC washers with a teensy bit of grinding.

Care to elaborate on what is being ground off specifically? I like this idea, but I will have to explain to them what I want done.
Keep in mind that my entire life's experience with suspension work has been replacing the rear shocks on an E36 M3.

 

[l3n0x]

If you have zero rust, then change the globes and keep the AHC! That’s the most rational way to go.

 

[Pyrenees]

If you have zero rust, then change the globes and keep the AHC! That’s the most rational way to go.

I get that it's the best plan if you crave AHC. I don't have a preference on that (I've driven stock 100 LCs). I just want a "next five years plan" to not include throwing money at the suspension beyond this point for AHC-related pieces. As far as I can tell in the records, all of the AHC stuff is original. It works great (and I plan to sell the parts on the classifieds here) but I am honestly going to be pissed off at myself if I replace the globes and then I have a random AHC failure later on down the road. If this was not my daily driver, I might approach this differently.

 

[l3n0x]

There are great chances you can pull five more years from the AHC with new globes. The trouble starts when you have rust, because then it’s 50/50 if you can swap just the globes or shocks or whatnot.
My truck has mild rust, and I still had to cut basicly everything off when converting it. Shocks, lines, actuators, etc. That was the reason really that made me convert. I couldn’t just change this and that because all the cutting.
The setup I have now is fine-ish, but miles away from what the working AHC gave in comfort/handling.
You’re throwing out a _working_ $15k suspension for a $1.5k one - it just can’t be the right thing to do.

Anyway, my conversion took 1.5 days, but most of it was battling the rust (cutting & hammering). If you really don’t have any rust, it could be done in 5hrs or less with the right tools & without cutting the floor panel.

 

[katit]

I get that it's the best plan if you crave AHC. I don't have a preference on that (I've driven stock 100 LCs). I just want a "next five years plan" to not include throwing money at the suspension beyond this point for AHC-related pieces. As far as I can tell in the records, all of the AHC stuff is original. It works great (and I plan to sell the parts on the classifieds here) but I am honestly going to be pissed off at myself if I replace the globes and then I have a random AHC failure later on down the road. If this was not my daily driver, I might approach this differently.

Heh. If you were local I would do labor in exchange for AHC components.

 

[Pyrenees]

You’re throwing out a _working_ $15k suspension for a $1.5k one

...on a $10k vehicle. I can't provide a rebuttal to your argument, because it's true. The AHC is a brilliant system and I like it. I just don't have the time to absorb the potential future issues that may arise, given the choice to convert the suspension now that I am at the crossroads.

 

[Pyrenees]

Heh. If you were local I would do labor in exchange for AHC components.

I'm in Raleigh/Durham, so yeah I am definitely not local to you. Too bad, right? When I swap it, I'm going to sell all of the parts. It might pay for half of my troubles.

 

[flintknapper]

I've not done that job...so I can't offer anything helpful except to say I agree with your decision to swap out the AHC suspension for the simpler traditional one. While the AHC system tends to be pretty reliable...given your concerns (family, DD, etc) you just don't need the worry of having future trouble or expenses.

Working in your favor is the fact that your vehicle is not plagued with rust. That will make removal of the parts so much easier.

With the exception of removing the AHC 'shocks'...the rest of the components are easily reached and removed.

The labor estimate given by the shop you cited sounds quite reasonable to me. And even though I am equipped to do the job myself....for what they propose, I would have them do it for sure. Then you'll have a one time install, no further adjustments, no worry about anything failing. Just load up the kids, the wife, the GP and go!

 

[Pyrenees]

the GP

Hah, keen of you. You remembered one of the big reasons I got the 100. My Great Pyrenees. She loves that third-row AC.

 

[DirtDawg]

Disclaimer: I know AHC is a touchy topic on this forum and I thank everyone immensely who has helped me with my stuff (big shoutouts to @2001LC @flintknapper @PADDO ). My AHC is working perfectly, but I tested 7 grads on the globes from H to L. The FSM says this is the minimum spec. When I bought the LX 470 over a year ago, it was at 9 grads. When faced with the prospect of spending an almost equivalent amount of money on replacing a mere component of a complex and aging system (19 years/180k mi), I decided to go with the safer route in the long run. New OEM Toyota LC rear $prings, new OEM Toyota LC shocks (cheap!) and used OEM Toyota LC torsion bars from a fellow mudder. This vehicle is my DD and I have kids + I want to DD this vehicle for at least 5 more years, so I decided not to risk it even if AHC is butter-smooth.

So, with that out of the way, my questions:

If you have deleted your AHC and installed a non-hydraulic option (Old Man Emu, factory Totoya parts, Strutmasters, etc), did you run into any weird s*** during the install?

Thoughts/questions:

- I will have to remove a bulb from the cluster for "AHC off" or something like that

- The rear shocks are troublesome to remove (something about drilling through the body? Can someone elaborate on that?)

- My go-to shop discussed the job (4x shocks, rear coils, TBs + alignment) and said it would be billed between 6-7.5 hours. Does this sound right?

- From what I understand, the Toyota OEM shocks come with the top nut and the cushions, but not the spacers/washers and apparently I need those and there are 4x per shock. I will assume that is true unless someone replies otherwise. I'd hate to order $160 worth of washers only to find out that they were included in the shocks.

- Are there any other vehicle system co-dependencies that I need to be aware of (i.e. ABS)? From what I understand, there are not any.

I'm asking these questions because a lot of this info is tribal knowledge scattered among various threads. I plan to do a full write-up of the parts I used and the outcome when it's done, I just need some sage advice on this.

Thanks!

I'll run through a few key points from my installation a few years back as well as answer your questions to the best of my ability. Questions first.

-No need to remove any cluster bulbs. I simply unplugged the AHC computer on the steering column and never encountered any issues, lights, etc.

-No need to drill through the body. Get the appropriate flex-head ratcheting wrench. The proper tool with adequate patience will allow you remove them no worries.

-It took me about 14 hours for the full job. But this was my first go around and I was working on a rusty truck. I still believe it would be more than the quoted time if they are doing a full removal.

-Cant respond to the OEM shock question as I used all aftermarket suspension parts

-No co-dependencies to worry about

Ok now for some of the things I wish I would have known going into this install:

-The rear flex hose (hose that connects the hard lines to the actual shock body) is mounted with a 10mm(?) on the top of the frame rail with literally no room between the body and frame. The only tool I was able to fit in there was a ratcheting wrench and could only get like 1/16 of a turn at a time. Patience is key on this job.

-The globe accumulators on the frame have mounting bolts on the side and then I believe most of them also have a mounting bolt on the top of the frame. I couldn't get any wrench on top of the frame on a few spots and ended up actually breaking the mounting tab off.

-I did a full removal, meaning everything, which is not always the popular route, but the cleanest. The hard lines can be difficult, but just have a small tube-cutter on hand so you can cut the lines as you remove them.

-I protected my garage floor with plastic sheeting. I highly recommend this if you do it at home as fluid goes everywhere.

-My new tough dog shocks had a larger upper nut than the AHC components so I had to wait an extra day on a wrench. Probably not an issue if going with OEM, but something to watch out for.

-I highly recommend a full removal. You wont have any leaks after the fact from residual fluid in the lines, there wont be any unnecessary components hanging from your frame rails, and you'll never have to worry about the system again. Heck I even removed the computer from the steering column.

Those are the key points I remember from installation of a conventional system. Its not a hard job, just time consuming to do it right. Hope this helps some, I'm going on 2.5 years with my conventional setup and haven't looked back once!

 

[nukegoat]

I have zero rust on the undercarriage. Was one of the main reasons I bought this 100 (you all told me, haha).



Care to elaborate on what is being ground off specifically? I like this idea, but I will have to explain to them what I want done.
Keep in mind that my entire life's experience with suspension work has been replacing the rear shocks on an E36 M3.

They're ovals that need to be round

 

[MongooseGA]

I think my indy kept all of my AHC components when it was removed. System was functioning very well. Only removed because I had just built an LC with full TD suspension then it got killed by a dump truck weeks later.

If you'd like them, you're not terribly far away, and I'll be heading up to VA in a few weeks... Shoot me a PM in you're interested.

FWIW, my indy charged me $1000 to remove TD suspension from a wrecked truck, remove AHC from new LX, install TD into new LX. It was a pretty sweet deal I couldn't say no to.

 

[PAFJ]

I just went through this a couple weeks ago and can say that @DirtDawg advice is spot on. 14+ hours is a much closer estimate for a complete removal due to the difficulties removing some of the components as he had mentioned. I would be very impressed if all was done in 6-7 hours. Well worth It to remove all lines, components, etc. as the cut lines and components will continue to leak and make a mess of the ground and undercarriage, so just get them out of there and be done with it. Prepare for tons of residual fluid as you are removing everything, protection on the ground is great advice. Also, the shocks will be full of fluid, so when you compress them for removal, be prepared for fluid to shoot out everywhere! Honestly, AHC fluid is just awful, this was not an enjoyable project.

You’ll have one bushing retainer (washer) from each of the front shocks that is reusable. They are the washers with raised center portion. You will need all four for rear and the two missing from front. I’m not sure if new OEM shocks come with them or not, that’s a good question for your local parts guy.

This is all fresh in my head, so if you have any more specific questions feel free to hit me up.

For what it’s worth, IMO you’re making the right decision in regards to retaining AHC or going conventional. The AHC will ride better hands down, but having far less maintenance/upkeep costs and the simplicity of a conventional suspension is the way to go!

 

[FarmTruckLX]

I removed my AHC two weekends ago. My AHC failed on the road, and I also wanted something simpler going forward. Like others have said, I would plan on it taking a while. I’m slow, and I was working by myself, but I can’t see how I could have done it in one day. It did make a mess, but it’s just oil. It cleans up well enough.

I also went with OEM shocks. What others have said about the washers was true for me. The OEM shocks were in OEM packaging, and they did not come with washers. They did come with bushings and the top nut. I used OME torsion bars and 865 springs.

As far as tools, I used a cutting tool to speed up removal of the lines between the globes and the “shock” cylinders. Also, I would strongly recommend getting an offset box wrench. Based on the advice many folks here have shared, I bought a 22mm flex-head ratcheting wrench (e.g., Gearwrench). That was great for installing the new shocks, and I definitely recommend it, too. For removing the old “shocks,” though, I couldn’t get it to work. I ended up using a 7/8” offset box wrench for removal.

 

[Pyrenees]

I am pretty sure the 6-7 hour quote was just for the four shocks, two springs, two torsion bars and all the residual alignment/adjustment crap. I take it that I could just open the bleed screw on the central accumulator doohickey and that would probably let a lot of the residual fluid out of the system. I figure that I'll just slowly remove all the parts over a few weekends and sell them here. I don't mind wrenching to get the pieces off afterward, but a full suspension replacement is something I'll pay someone else to do

 

[ClassyJalopy]

It feels like we had this same conversation on another thread, Deja Vu!!

Listen to @DirtDawg he said everything that needed to be said.
It took me almost 14 hours to remove AHC shocks and TBs and install Toyota OEM shocks (new ones don't come with washers like you have been told before. I believe I even shared the part diagram with you too). Best bet is to just get used set from some one here on mud.
The new Bilstein shocks do come with new washers so if you go that route you will get free washers. I believe @Gdub216 has a set of very slightly used ones for sale here.
Finally, you don't have to cut any holes in the floor ( I didn't) and still able to get to the rear shocks.

 

[ry303]

X2 to what @dirtdwag said. I removed my entire ahc system a couple of months ago. I had two failed lines due to rust. Ugh.
If you do the work yourself definitely get a tarp or something to cover the garage floor - that ahc fluid gets everywhere, is really slippery and it stinks. I used 2 of those harbor freight free tarps.
I couldn't get the top bolt on any of the accumulators or the pump so I used a big pry bar and bent/broke them off. I used a sawzall and different length blades to remove all the lines etc. Wear safety glasses!
I used OEM shocks with OME torsion bars. Small lift, comfy ride.
I ordered new shock washers from cruiserparts.com. My ahc washers were rusty beyond use.
I had to cut a hole in the floor to get the passenger side shock out, again because of rust. Driver side was easy using the 22mm flexhead wrench others have mentioned.
I did it over 3 weeks, Saturdays mostly. I've got 3 kids and the busy life that goes with that so the time it took me may not be a relevant comparison.
I love the ride and the knowledge of how the suspension works.