Flexy Coils and Mathematical Theory for Review

[Delancy]

have you thought about using a different coil in the back ?

Funny guy.

Full tank.

You know what I've only recently discovered?

The arms are for 4".....but I have 5".

May explain a few issues that I'll get back around to when the '76 is done and road worthy.

Thinking about raising the upper coil mount.

Get the height I want, retain the ability to keep the coil on the bucket, leaving only the body roll to battle....along with cutting fenders.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

That's what Im doing with mine, 1" above std height, but 40" tyres, moving the suspension mounts up 40mm so no bump spacer, 12" stroke travel front and 14" rear, and big fenders!

Oh, and cut into a styleside.

I have worked out using another set of coil mounts in the front, and cutting the originals the 40mm longer, and joining the cut 2nd set to suit, just higher will be the best "factory" look, and in the rear, cut the whole crossmember out, move it up, weld it back in, though I may leave the panhard mount down where it should be, then cut the floor and move it up as well, and weld it back in.

Most people would look under it, and not notice it wasn't a chassis as Toyota had intended then, and if road going legalities for the tyres are a problem, I can go back to standard size, with a 1" lift, and big fenders LOL.

This is our concept drawing we are working to for dimensions.

Will send you some pics, so you can get prepared.

 

[Delancy]

My initial thoughts were:

Lower and level by raising the upper coil bucket.

Raise the upper shock mounts, since the shock lengths coincide with the vehicle, as is.

Cut and turn, since the 4" branded SE arms do not correct caster.

Spin the axle housing, since the 4" branded SE arms do not address pinion angle for FT, and eliminate one of the double cardan joints on the front drive shaft.

Raise the pan hard and drag link mount at the axle.

Correct body roll with the aft mounted sway, hopefully, the body roll minimized by lowering.

Cut out and sheet metal that gets in the way of the 37s.

OR

I'm gonna cut everything out and start over, all with the intention and goal that it, at least maintains the current off road "capabilities", but that I'm not overly concerned when my wife wants to drive it, as I am now.

No definitive plans, but coil overs seem to the answer, regardless of linkages, since there's no concern of losing the coil on, and with a 3"-4" lift, there would be with any other alternative.

It rides great with the speedo stating 95mph, but handles like chit, to the point one unfamiliar with driving lumbering high rises may prove dangerous, so I consider all my efforts on the suspension, after two years of research, implementation, and sparing no expense, a complete fail.

I do experience a death wobble at a speedo stated 42-45mph, but it is temperature related, so must be a tire wheel issue, that will be addressed, as well.

Seems the Krawlers flat spot quickly, so they may be prime candidates for dynamic balancing , which I was adamantly against.

At some point, going to knock the weights off and use the monster valves as a port for beads.

If that doesn't work, will break them down and try golf balls....

 

[nukegoat]

I think coilovers = answer

 

[Delancy]

I think coilovers = answer

If I were anywhere closer than 2500 miles to a coil over proficient shop, it might be on....but I'm
not.

 

[Delancy]

How ignorant would it be to consider raising the coil buckets and upper shock mounts, with the intent to utilize the existing coil/shock combo, since the coil travel range is advantageous, for the purpose of lowering to a level 4" lift?

Reasoning.

First, the radius arms and rear links are 4" lift specific which, as we all know, I exceeded, so it may return the front to a reasonable start to cut and turn, and return the rear axle to the center of the well.

Second. I'm so fed up with the body roll.

There's no way to run a front torsion bar/sway bar, period, and the rear bar, in my estimation and math, would cost around $1k, due to length and diameter without any more if a guarantee than my math can formulate.

Don't know that lowering an 1" will help much, but it sure can't hurt.

Third. COs seem to distant a reality.

Fourth. I don't want to spend another fortune to replace the fortune I already spent.

Going to polish a turd.

Have a double, double front shaft, so worst case, cut one end off and run it.

Prepare to cut and turn.

Prepared to cut out any sheet metal that impedes.

Opinions?

 

[Delancy]

No one?

 

[pkelly72]

Just for clarification - you would increase travel and lower vehicle to a true 4" lift. If so, I would be interested in what's gained in doing so and what would be the cost (not just $).

 

[scottryana]

Yep do it. I say go for a true 3-3.5" and cut any sheet metal out of your way.

...via IH8MUD app

 

[sleeoffroad]

Second. I'm so fed up with the body roll.
Opinions?

Well, you asked. The couple of trucks that I have driven with Flexy coils (yes I owned one) had the same issue. Increase spring rate or you have to try to control it with shocks.

We have Darren's truck at the shop with Flexy coils. Once I get the Icon shocks back after re-vavling I will try it again and see what I think.

What you have is a 7k lb flexy sexy that likes to salsa. Unfortunately that is the outcome in 99% if the cases when people build a ramp queen.

 

[Delancy]

Well, you asked. The couple of trucks that I have driven with Flexy coils (yes I owned one) had the same issue. Increase spring rate or you have to try to control it with shocks.

Am I beating a dead horse even considering lowering the COG?

Am I beating a dead horse in attempting to minimize the body roll with a +$1,400 rear sway?

If I knew what valve specs to describe to Glenn, I'd yank them off and send them back, but I haven't found convulsive evidence ( until you chimed in ) that it'd even be advantageous.

We have Darren's truck at the shop with Flexy coils. Once I get the Icon shocks back after re-vavling I will try it again and see what I think.

Hell, his is 3".

You're still jacking with the body roll with 3" flexy coils?

Guess that answers my question on viability of raising the mounts.

What you have is a 7k lb flexy sexy that likes to salsa. Unfortunately that is the outcome in 99% if the cases when people build a ramp queen.

I'm at 5,600lbs and never my intention to build a ramp queen.

At this point, feel I'm too far up crap creek to stop paddling, as it does seem to afford some benefits (butt dyno) in the rocks, but I've been driving the 80 more, and will continue to until the Pig returns from Robbie, so it's constantly in my face.

Friggin hate having a vehicle I don't feel comfortable with my wife driving, and I don't.

In the last two days, we've seen sustained winds of 40mph with gusts to 60mph, and it will blow your ass into the other lane, driving two fisted at 10 and 2.

 

[Delancy]

Just for clarification - you would increase travel and lower vehicle to a true 4" lift. If so, I would be interested in what's gained in doing so and what would be the cost (not just $).

Wouldn't increase the travel. Quote the contrary in the rear, unless I wanted to cut the tub and fab new wells and have screwy looking rear doors, which I don't.

In a nutshell, I want to polish a turd.

Lower to 4" to correct the caster the arms are meant to correct for...being 4" lift.

Lower the rear to 4" to return the wheel to the center of the well, since the links are for 4" lift.

In the process, the ultimate goal is decreasing the body roll to a more manageable and predictable amount.

Then, set up a rear sway accordingly, to finish it off. Issue being, the rear sway is $$$$ and a complete crap shoot on bar sizing, since there's no one that build a bar the width and diameter required, no one that can assist in saying " yes, your math appears to be correct, but....", and no one that really gives two chits about product development for the 80, since it's doubtful too many will follow down the path of a $1,400 anti sway corrective measure....may not be many that need to.

 

[Delancy]

While perusing for sale threads I initiated to bump, I happened along this one so figured I'd update.

Thread ender.

Complete fail.

 

[aviator31]

Is that you?

 

[Delancy]

Is that you?

Yes.

 

[aviator31]

Hope everyone is ok! Solved your dilemma on suspension setup unfortunately. Sorry man!

 

[Delancy]

Solved your dilemma on suspension setup unfortunately.

Not solved yet, but it did officially rule out one possibility.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

why do we fall down, bruce?

 

[GW Nugget]

Delacy, will you elaborate on what happend. I'm researching about slinky flex progesive or what ever. What did you have & did it have to do with rolling your rig. Are they bouncy SOBS or what? I read all 14 pages & didn't get it, but you wanted to go lower.

 

[Delancy]

Delacy,

That's Delancy.

will you elaborate on what happend?

Me??

Elaborate??

Surely you jest..

Only if I may embellish.

Here's what happened:

The laws of physics awoke pissed off on that (sad) day, because I had paid her no attention, nor how closely she relates to holistic vehicular suspension design.

I'd elevated a fat ass station wagon like a monumental right in her face, disregarding the simple fact that forces are exponentially increased with each "inch lift" and she sought and found revenge.

The bitch.....

It's not going to matter what I say, but....

I read all 14 pages & didn't get it, but you wanted to go lower.

Wanna build the absolute, hands down, bar nonex baddest ass, dual purpose 80? As predictable on and off road, capable of highway speeds, yet transforming into a rock donkey?

Here's how you do it:

*20mm front coil spacers to minimize rake.

*42"-44" BFG Krawlers on 17x9, 3.5" BS bead locks.

*Mount the wheels and tires, cycle the OE links and suspension, and cut every damn shred of sheet metal that hinders wheel travel, out of the way. Not the janky sawzall and cut and fold method, but rebuilding structural inner fenders, front and rear.

'Cause, Mr. T knew then and knows now the very basics of suspension geometry being

FLAT LINKS
FLAT PANHARDS
FLAT DRAG LINK

Which cannot be replicated on the 80....at least not by anyone who is technically proficient enough to build, because they don't wanna wheel a fat ass station wagon, nor do they see many with the +$20k to throw down on the pig, in just suspension related modifications alone.

ALL THAT SAID:

If you have a small spring that'll fit between your thumb and forefinger, that's thicker/more resistant on one half, thinner less resistant on the other, and you squeeze, what'll happen is the thinner will bind quickly, the thicker will resist and, without being given the opportunity to collapse at the joint between the two, push back.

One would think it'd be easy enough to correct this phenomena by having a coil wound the same as the OEs, for instance, for "X" height, then dead coils, or coils that ride on each other when bearing normal weight, only expanding when unweighted, simply to keep the coil in the bucket.

Explored this with two different reputable coil manufacturers and both said that there's not enough distance between the coil retainers to achieve a dual rate coil that works, even with 6" of suspended "lift"....

If ONLY addressing the suspenders and the intention is to guarantee the coil won't fall out, which is the only benefit to dual rate coils, as I see it, weld the damn things top and bottom, and wheel it.

Then, because it's a lumbering giant on size 6 shoes, when she rolls, you can at least say you didn't spend a fortune on magical, mystical s*** that didn't work.

Spend the money on wheels, tires, and a metal magician who can fit the above, and after everyone else's butt's puckered up on an obstacle (or in traffic), save money on the Preparation H after the fact, because it was stable.