I think you are bleeding the brakes in the wrong order. Like Pete said, it should be left rear, right rear, right front, left front.
FJ40 Brake Bleeding troubles (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter JAFO2014
- Start date
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Also never mentioned if they will pump up to a solid pedal ?
If it pumps up then I would agree that the shoes need adjusting. They should drag the drum just slighty, I like to do it with the tire on because the tightening of the lugs seems to change the drum a bit. Just saying cause I have adjusted shoes with tire off, then when wheel bolted up it changes the drag on the drum.
Another thing to try is to put some vise grips on the soft line for rear common off frame and see if pedal conditions change.
If it pumps up then I would agree that the shoes need adjusting. They should drag the drum just slighty, I like to do it with the tire on because the tightening of the lugs seems to change the drum a bit. Just saying cause I have adjusted shoes with tire off, then when wheel bolted up it changes the drag on the drum.
Another thing to try is to put some vise grips on the soft line for rear common off frame and see if pedal conditions change.
- Thread starter
- #23
Interesting topic. I am going through the exact same issue on my 78. I replaced my front disc -rotors, pads, etc. about 2 years ago. Brakes have been fine. I cleaned up my truck and noticed a slight leak on one of my driver's side rear brake cylinders. I ordered two new cylinders for the driver's side rear. Replaced them and tried to bleed the system. I get full squirt up front but only drip in the rear. Lots of clean fluid, just not a heavy squirt when trying to bleed. This weekend, I replaced the other two wheel cylinders, passenger side. The brakes will not even stop the wheel in a free spin while up on jack stands. I have tried and tried to bleed but I can't get a good pedal or make the rears work. The front brakes are still Ok, just not as good as they were. I did RR, LR, RF, LF in that order.
After reading several threads on MUD, I am going to try to adjust the shoes tighter than I thought I needed to. I didn't replace lines on mine but fluid is clean and I haven't run the reservoir dry. Try, try again, I guess...
Your issue sort of sounds like a proportioning valve. Is your truck stock? I know that old chevy proportioning valves if the rear loses fluid will flip an internal valve that blocks flow to the rear so the front will still stop the vehicle. Wonder if the 40 has a similar proportioning valve. On the Chevy you have to manually flip the thing in the proportioning valve to reset it so fluid will flow to the rear again.
- Thread starter
- #24
I am doing things one at a time, so hopefully will know what the actual fix is. I will take everyone's advice regarding adjusting the rear brakes. But first I tried the speed bleeders last night since they came in and I want to try things in sequence.
I bled the snot out of the system with the speed bleeders and no change. Not a lot of pedal once I start the 40 and drive. There can't be any air in the system now.
Yes, I can pump up the system so I have tons of pedal. Not too many pumps either. Three pumps maybe gives me massive pedal.
So I guess it must be the brake shoe adjustment. I did initially adjust them with the wheels off as I think about it. But I remember spinning the wheels and pretty sure I heard some brake rub, but probably not much. It was late last night when I got done with the speed bleeding test and I didn't feel like lifting the 40 to check the brake adjustment. I'll put it on the lift tomorrow and report back my findings.
Thanks for all the feedback.
Sometimes it can take a few re-adjustments to get the shoes in their happy place. Like said before, they seem to need to be a little lighter than you might think. After you get adjusted go for a drive and make sure they aren’t dragging/running hot.
One of the best things I've purchased for my '40:
powerbleeder.
powerbleeder.
- Thread starter
- #27
I replaced the rear shoes and drums this morning. Then adjusted the shoes nice and tight. Then bled all the way around many, many times. Still no pedal. If driving I have to pump twice then have plenty of pedal.
I'm going to order a new master cylinder.
Four years ago I replaced all the rubber lines and the system bled easily. I guess the master has some problem is all I can think at this point.
I'm going to order a new master cylinder.
Four years ago I replaced all the rubber lines and the system bled easily. I guess the master has some problem is all I can think at this point.
John McVicker
SILVER Star
When you say you had the shoes 'nice and tight', just how tight? Were you able to turn the wheel by placing your hands at 9 & 3??
And to have good pedal feel...all 4 wheels must be adjusted properly. You can have 2 done perfectly, and if not perfect on the other 2... You will not have good pedal.
I could be wrong, but I still think your issue is not adjusting with the wheels tight enough. Hard to tell w/o actually being there tho.
And to have good pedal feel...all 4 wheels must be adjusted properly. You can have 2 done perfectly, and if not perfect on the other 2... You will not have good pedal.
I could be wrong, but I still think your issue is not adjusting with the wheels tight enough. Hard to tell w/o actually being there tho.
- Thread starter
- #30
Front is disc. At one point I tightened the rear shoes so tight I could not spin the wheel. Then bled. No pedal. It makes no sense to me. I am not seeing air bubbles when I bleed. I was thinking I might plug the line to the rear some way and bleed. See if with only the front disc I get pedal. Divide and conquer.
- Thread starter
- #31
To everyone that said it's air in the lines (and everyone thinking it) you were correct.
Today my goal was to get pedal. I didn't have a master to swap in, but figured it just can't be the problem . I drove around , having to pump the brakes. Came back home and bled. Bubbles came out, but not right away. Like three or four pumps. Bled all the way around and no pedal. Again bled all the way around, little bubbles after several pumps. No pedal. Repeated this process for three hours. I lost track of how many times I bled the system. All of a sudden pedal! The air was just a bear to get out. Just got back from a trip in to town and the brakes are perfect. I have never had to bleed a system so many times to purge all the air.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Today my goal was to get pedal. I didn't have a master to swap in, but figured it just can't be the problem . I drove around , having to pump the brakes. Came back home and bled. Bubbles came out, but not right away. Like three or four pumps. Bled all the way around and no pedal. Again bled all the way around, little bubbles after several pumps. No pedal. Repeated this process for three hours. I lost track of how many times I bled the system. All of a sudden pedal! The air was just a bear to get out. Just got back from a trip in to town and the brakes are perfect. I have never had to bleed a system so many times to purge all the air.
Thanks for everyone's input.
I have just spent a month of Sundays on this exact issue; this is how I finally fixed it.
You need a 1 pint ball jar with two holes through the lid into which go 1/4 inch clear flex
lines about 18 inches each run to the bottom of the jar
Starting rear driver brake single bleeder, connect 1/4 inch tube and crack bleeder and
start engine. Then sieze that pedal with both hands and drive it to the floor and then quickly pull
it towards you as fast and hard as you can repeatedly watching as the res quickly empties
fill res asnd repeat until the pint jar is full. Repeat for rear passenger. For the fronts starting
with passenger connect both hoses and crack both bleeders then really get all your frustration
out on that pedal, all the pain and frustration these dam brakes have given you. When the jar
is full close the bleeders and move on to the drivers front and repeat.
This is will work, takes 15 minutes costs a couple bucks
Good luck all
You need a 1 pint ball jar with two holes through the lid into which go 1/4 inch clear flex
lines about 18 inches each run to the bottom of the jar
Starting rear driver brake single bleeder, connect 1/4 inch tube and crack bleeder and
start engine. Then sieze that pedal with both hands and drive it to the floor and then quickly pull
it towards you as fast and hard as you can repeatedly watching as the res quickly empties
fill res asnd repeat until the pint jar is full. Repeat for rear passenger. For the fronts starting
with passenger connect both hoses and crack both bleeders then really get all your frustration
out on that pedal, all the pain and frustration these dam brakes have given you. When the jar
is full close the bleeders and move on to the drivers front and repeat.
This is will work, takes 15 minutes costs a couple bucks
Good luck all
Great idea/detail on this bleed process, I'm currently out of town, but look forward to trying this when I get home. I've worked on brakes for over 40 years and NEVER had this much trouble bleeding them, I've spent probably 6 hours thus far, replaced ALL the brake parts, adjusted, and adjusted again etc. At any rate, I do have a question, I think you may be missing one small detail in your post. If you run a tube into the jar without the tube being submersed in fluid, you'll suck up more air and need to do a lot more pumping to get the fluid level up in the jar. At least until the fluid gets high enough to cover the end of the tube...or am I missing something? I've done similar tricks in the past with difficult bleeders and found that you need to make sure to submerse the tube into fluid first. The part I didn't do, which I just cant wait to try, is pump the living snot out of the brake pedal, I can't wait!
Hi,
You only need just enough brake fluid to cover the end of the clear tube in your bottle / Jar ( and you don't really need any once your first bleed is under pressure before you open the bleeder valve, it will fill the bottle )
Get a second person to pump the brake pedal until it builds pressure then get them to hold it down.
Then you open the bleeder, you will see the brake fluid come out and any airbubbles / contaminanted fluid.
Close the bleeder before the second person lets the pedal up.
Repeat the process until no air and don't let Fluid level drop.
Work from far to near towards the master cylinder.
As far as I know, on a 40 with front discs and rear drums, in the brake master cylinder you have to remove the check valve behind the front ( F ) big nut.
Bench bleed the master cylinder first.
Check on the forums here.
Good luck!
ToyotaDyna
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Thanks everyone for the assist. installed a new master prior to all this. All the wheel cylinders are adjusted correctly, I adjusted both cylinders on each cprner to where they are draggin just a little bit, any more on any of them and they get too hot. I bled them the traditional way several times, then I used 2 different vacuum bleeders, a pressure bleeder which puts 10-14 PSI in the reservoir and pushes the fluid to each wheel cylinder, next I tried he IV-bag type setup at each wheel and I even tried back-bleeding them (this is how we do it on small airplanes) by pushing the fluid from each wheel cylinder to to the master. Finally I bought the fast bleeder valves. I was finally able to get an OK pedal, it still almost hits the floor but they work. a quick second pump and they're good. Ultimately, I think my best bet may be to get an OEM master and try that??
John McVicker
SILVER Star
^^^
Your last post is very clear, tho you believe your shoes are properly adjusted, it’s HIGHLY likely they need at least 2 more clicks.
2 more clicks, go for a 2 mile test drive & coast to a stop…do not use the brakes…coast to a stop. Jump out & feel your drums/wheels…they should be very warm. This is what you want.
Your last post is very clear, tho you believe your shoes are properly adjusted, it’s HIGHLY likely they need at least 2 more clicks.
2 more clicks, go for a 2 mile test drive & coast to a stop…do not use the brakes…coast to a stop. Jump out & feel your drums/wheels…they should be very warm. This is what you want.
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I could have written this same thread, right down to my wife's being burned out on brake pumping. I got a vacuum a bleeder from a friend and did not get success from that either. So, despite bleeding my system multiple times, I'm still needing to do one pump of the pedal in order to prevent the pedal from going all the way to the firewall. I don't know what to do other than buy more brake fluid or take the thing to Les Schwabe and have them do it (I don't plan that for now because I have admitting defeat). Let me know if you figure this out! FJ's must be hard to bleed.
