First LC flat tire (on the street): lessons learned (1 Viewer)

[Mdog97]

Yes - all good ideas - keep 'em coming. @RET2 I'm not sure what you mean by a "spare terminal piece" - do you have a photo or link of an example? //ON EDIT - I think you're talking about the same thing that @KLF showed in the next post below yours

@KLF I liked that first Amazon adapter, but I agree I don't think it will work on the loop on our jacks. I thought about getting another tool kit hook segment and jimmying up something on the female end to connect to an electric driver - may still go that way. Is that adapter in your photos just press fit over the female end, or is it welded as well?

I think the connection from the loop to the driver needs to be firm, but not fixed, if that makes sense. That's what led me to the gator grip type socket. Instead, maybe something like that first Amazon find, but with a stiff rubber or nylon loop instead of the transverse screw that could go through the hole in the loop on the jack, provide rotation torque in either direction, but allow the angle between the loop on the jack and the axis of the driver to vary in the x- and y- planes. Kind of like 1/2 of a U-joint, but with a flexible transverse piece made out of stiff rubber or nylon instead of steel.

I'll keep digging - maybe there's some kind of flex drive coupling out there.

 

[CharlieS]

Lots of good research. Thanks for sharing it.

I bet after you rebuild or replace your jack that is binding you will find that it is so easy to use without a drill/impact driver that this power tool driven idea falls by the wayside.

In my opinion, adding batteries, powered tools, and adapters just adds unnecessary complication to a simple manual solution (that is rarely used). For me, simpler is better in this application.

 

[Mdog97]

You are probably right @CharlieS. I'm hopeful that I can shake loose whatever is causing the problem in my jack, so that I don't have to buy another one.

I prefer simpler in most things, but as the operations and security head for the family, speed is often at a premium, so I'm constantly weighing that tradeoff. After years of bug bites and "are you done yet" comments from the peanut gallery, I went to tire deflators and a PowerTank about 10-15 years ago for our trips to the oversand beach. The extra equipment cost, bulk and upkeep has definitely been worth the time savings for those two.

In addition, the Tim The Toolman Taylor in me is lazy and generally loves electric/powered/pneumatic over manual labor (except for things that require feel of course, like torqued bolts or lugs), especially when I might have to do the work in harsh environmental conditions. I don't quite have the Makita collection that @KLF showed in the DIY oil change thread, but a powered setup would give me an excuse to get another battery or two, at a minimum.

That Dr. Roc scissor jack adapter (or any of the other branded ones) is really probably the right tool to connect the loop to an electric driver, but unfortunately the jaws of that particular adapter are too narrow to fit across the loop on the OEM jack. The search continues....

Following up on the tread depths: the Dunlop spare is at 10/32" (basically new), while the remaining three live Michelins are 6.5/32" (LF), 6/32" (RF) and 7/32" (RR). The dead Michelin is (was) about 6/32" too. Michelin specs say the new tire tread depth is supposed to be 10/32".

 

[KLF]

@KLF I liked that first Amazon adapter, but I agree I don't think it will work on the loop on our jacks.

No it won't work, too narrow. I've been out in the garage today putzing around avoiding doing any real work in the heat, and I've figured out how to make one. Need to go get a cheap socket to cut up and weld to, next time I'm in Harbor Freight. Too hot to run the welder today too.

Is that adapter in your photos just press fit over the female end, or is it welded as well?

It's just a 1/2" - 3/8" adapter I grabbed out of my tool box. Not welded. Too loose to use like it is. Might also give this a try, if I get a cheap one (not ruining my good Craftsman one).

 

[rlynch356]

I use these bottle jacks Omega 6-Ton Hydraulic Bottle Jack-10065B - The Home Depot - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Omega-6-Ton-Hydraulic-Bottle-Jack-10065B/206524645
should fit in the OEM location no problems..

its the exact one SafeJack.com sells with their adapter kits (which I also use and recommend) which have the different adapters for just about any need.

Starter Bottle Jack Recovery Kit with 6 Ton Bottle Jack

PN: 37102UPC: 854185005776 Get started with Safe Jack! Our Starter Bottle Jack Recovery Kit is a perfect introduction to the world of Safe Jack and an ideal enhancement to your family vehicle. This comprehensive kit equips you with the essential tools to get back on the road quickly and safely...

safejacks.com

 

[nwfl4runner]

You are probably right @CharlieS. I'm hopeful that I can shake loose whatever is causing the problem in my jack, so that I don't have to buy another one.

I prefer simpler in most things, but as the operations and security head for the family, speed is often at a premium, so I'm constantly weighing that tradeoff. After years of bug bites and "are you done yet" comments from the peanut gallery, I went to tire deflators and a PowerTank about 10-15 years ago for our trips to the oversand beach. The extra equipment cost, bulk and upkeep has definitely been worth the time savings for those two.

In addition, the Tim The Toolman Taylor in me is lazy and generally loves electric/powered/pneumatic over manual labor (except for things that require feel of course, like torqued bolts or lugs), especially when I might have to do the work in harsh environmental conditions. I don't quite have the Makita collection that @KLF showed in the DIY oil change thread, but a powered setup would give me an excuse to get another battery or two, at a minimum.

That Dr. Roc scissor jack adapter (or any of the other branded ones) is really probably the right tool to connect the loop to an electric driver, but unfortunately the jaws of that particular adapter are too narrow to fit across the loop on the OEM jack. The search continues....

Following up on the tread depths: the Dunlop spare is at 10/32" (basically new), while the remaining three live Michelins are 6.5/32" (LF), 6/32" (RF) and 7/32" (RR). The dead Michelin is (was) about 6/32" too. Michelin specs say the new tire tread depth is supposed to be 10/32".

My risk avoidance kicks in here - that's 1/8" difference in a single tire, which is some number of rotations per mile difference. Someone smarter than me will do that math, but it's not insignificant. I don't think you should be running that tire alone without shaving it, or finding a used one. Ideally, you should replace all 4 as they are worn.

 

[Mdog97]

@KLF eager to see what you come up with.

Thanks @rlynch356 - will check that one out if my OEM jack ends up getting replaced.

@nwfl4runner Going back to the tires and the different tread depths: I did the math, using Michelin's overall diameter of 31.42" for a new 285/60R18. The new tire will be doing 641.9 rotations per mile, while the used tire at 4/32" less tread depth will be doing 644.5 rotations per mile to keep up (the used tire is 0.4% smaller in diameter, and therefore the same lesser percentage amount in circumference). Sounds like I should consider getting a used Michelin to re-complete this existing set, and save the incoming new tire for when I find a set of the TRD Pro BBS rims....

 

[bronc076]

Why are you concerned that the radius of one tire is 1/8” greater than the other three?

 

[nwfl4runner]

Why are you concerned that the radius of one tire is 1/8” greater than the other three?

because the diff is now compensating for the rotational difference which it will be doing for however many miles you run those tires.

 

[gaijin]

because the diff is now compensating for the rotational difference which it will be doing for however many miles you run those tires.

But isn't that the case with tires that are all exactly the same diameter every time you drive around a corner? In fact, every time you drive on any road that is not absolutely straight?

 

[FerrisBueller]

I know these don't get very much press on this site, but I am 100% sold on the ARB / Bushranger X-Jack:

Link on Amazon: X-Jack on Amazon

View attachment 2709439

Inflates with either a hose hooked up to your exhaust or with a portable air pump - only takes a few psi to raise the whole side of a LC200.

Stows perfectly on my Kaon shelf:

View attachment 2709440

Great on any kind of terrain.

HTH

I have one of these. It is great, but it's so big in its carrier that I find myself never wanting to take it anywhere. I suppose if I knew I the driving conditions for a particular trip really warranted it, I'd make room to bring it along

 

[gaijin]

I have one of these. It is great, but it's so big in its carrier that I find myself never wanting to take it anywhere. I suppose if I knew I the driving conditions for a particular trip really warranted it, I'd make room to bring it along

Out of the way, but immediately available:

 

[nwfl4runner]

But isn't that the case with tires that are all exactly the same diameter every time you drive around a corner? In fact, every time you drive on any road that is not absolutely straight?

Yup, except you generally don’t corner constantly in the same direction your entire trip

 

[gaijin]

Yup, except you generally don’t corner constantly in the same direction your entire trip

Sure, but your also not always driving in a straight line with that one tire slightly larger than the other three

 

[nwfl4runner]

Sure, but your also not always driving in a straight line with that one tire slightly larger than the other three

sure, I’ll grant you there’s no absolutes. At the same time, running one wheel that is for all intents and purposes a different size as your new standard, which is what is being proposed here, is not generally a great idea. But hell, people can do as they please, I 5 tire rotate every oil change and buy tire certificates so I don’t have to lose a second of sleep about it in the first place.

 

[bronc076]

because the diff is now compensating for the rotational difference which it will be doing for however many miles you run those tires.

2.6 rotations per mile of straight driving on a perfectly flat surface

The spider gears don't care if you are driving in a straight line or around a corner. I'd imagine if you could tap into the wheel RPM as read by the ABS sensors (depending on how accurate it is) and display it on your screen, even with 4 new identical tires driving on public roads one would be hard pressed to get all 4 tires spinning the exact same RPM for very long. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for new matching tires. But this is not an issue to be concerned about if you are worried about extra wear on some component because one tire travels .785" (reduced factory diameter stated above by .25" for the calculation) farther in one rotation. Now if you had a scooter wheel on one side and a wagon wheel on the other, the diff still would not care, but you'd piss off the traction control computer.

 

[Mdog97]

Thanks everyone - I'm learning a lot here. I think I'm tracking this discussion on 3 corners at ~6/32"-7/32" tread and one corner at 10/32" tread (new). Maybe academic or maybe important, but the circumference difference is real. I wasn’t planning on swapping out the other three Michelins until probably November, which could be as much as 5k miles from today, but I do have the ability to mitigate the potential problem now, so I’m thinking about it.

Backround: Coming from 10-15+ years in the world of leasing my previous on-road vehicles, I selfishly hadn't given any thought to the potential long-term effects of circumference mismatch on any previous tire replacement, as "it wasn't going to be my problem". My tire decisions were driven solely by the remaining lease term, road hazard damage events, and projected tread depths at lease end. On the LC it’s definitely my problem.

I guess I didn't do proper due diligence on these tires when I bought the LC back in April, and that's on me. I remember thinking that I was happy that it had Michelins and that there was "ample" tread all around and on the spare. I also mentally placed some weight on the CPO status as evidence that the tires "must be good", since they met Toyota's CPO standard (laughable, perhaps).

Looking at it today, the three remaining Michelins are certainly in spec and usable / acceptable at 6/32” - 7/32", but that's nothing to cheer about. I don't know how old they are or how many miles they’ve done, although it now seems pretty clear that the Dunlop on the spare is from the vehicle's original manufacture (and has seen almost no use). My three remaining Michelins seem closer to replacement than they are to surviving for another 2-3 years / ~20k miles (to get closer to their 55,000 mile warranted life according to Michelin). So, I think I’ll just replace them this coming winter, if not before.

My plan, such as it is, has been to get a second set of 18" wheels for summer use, and to relegate the OEM 18's to winter tire duty. I was going to run the Michelins in the spring, summer and fall (including oversand), and in November swap out for winter tires (brand and model TBD) that would be mounted on the OEM wheels and used until about March. That would give me many months to find a good set of five of the TRD / Pro forged rims (for summer duty), to get them reconditioned (if necessary), to get a second set of TPMS (if necessary), and to research and procure the right winter tires.

The first part of the grand switch is scheduled for around/after Halloween - to get the Michelins removed from the OEM wheels and replaced with the new winters, and then to put those winters on the LC. The remounting of the old Michelin tires, or new ones, onto the TRD rims could then take place some time over the winter in anticipation of spring 2022.

Given the need to get at least one new Michelin today, however, the better option (option 1) is probably to replace two Michelins in the rear now and do a front-to-rear rotation (due in another 500 miles or so anyway) (or maybe skip the rotation). That would end up with the two remaining 6/32" Michelins in the rear and the two new Michelins in the front, leaving similar circumferences across each axle, but leaving a 0.4% rotational delta from front to rear. The two old Michelins and the Dunlop spare would get replaced some time over the winter.​

​

Option 2 would be to skip this rotation and just run the one new Michelin across the rear axle from the Dunlop spare (10/32") until November, keeping the two old Michelins in the front. In November all 3 old Michelins and the Dunlop would go in the bin, and the new-ish Michelin (now with ~5k miles on it) would be unmounted and sent to spare duty in 2022.​

​

Option 3 would be to replace all 5 at the same time today...but I'd rather not mount and balance them all now just to unmount them again in 6 months and remount them onto the future TRD rims, as that's unnecessary wear and tear on the beads.​

I’m leaning towards option 2, as I've already got 1 new Michelin inbound. So, to add to the debate: do those with a strong opinion think it would be unwise to run a new Michelin opposite an old, but 10/32" tread, Dunlop across the same axle? I would never do this on a performance or race car, but is it a dumb idea here?

 

[Mdog97]

Updates:

1. My OEM bottle jack is fixed. I didn't open it up, but I did use Kroil liberally to try to break loose whatever was causing it to bind. I think there was some grit or sand caught where the loop enters the side of the jack body. I sprayed Kroil in there (after going down the sides of the post with no effect), while turning the loop back and forth, and then it seemed to progressively break free. It now spins up and down by hand no problem, with a very light touch.

To your earlier point @CharlieS where you wrote

I bet after you rebuild or replace your jack that is binding you will find that it is so easy to use without a drill/impact driver that this power tool driven idea falls by the wayside.

I see what you mean now - it should be much more functional with just the tool kit handle. I'm still going to look for a way to turn it with an electric drill or driver, but for now the mechanical problem is solved.

2. I found the hard rubber / soft plastic cover that goes over the lug area on the spare wheel, to keep the lug faces clear of dirt and grit while the spare is stowed under the rear of the vehicle. It is Toyota part number 4260B-60410 for those who don't have theirs. My cover had somehow come off the spare, and was tangled up above in the chain that pulls the spare up and holds it up. It was pretty crumpled, but I cleaned it up and pressed it onto the spare, so it seems to be back in business.

My replacement Michelin came from Tire Rack one day earlier than promised, and I had it mounted and road force balanced that afternoon. I decided to put the mismatched high-tread tires (old Dunlop and new Michelin) across from each other on the rear axle, and to leave the 6/32" used Michelins on the front, for now (option 2). The other worn Michelin is currently doing duty as the spare.

There are some sets of the BBS Japan TRD and TRD Pro wheels on the Tundra forum and on eBay, but nothing local to me, and certainly none of these $1500-$1800 deals that I've read about elsewhere. The wheels can be had new from the Toyota parts counter at several area dealerships for $462-490 each (no center caps or TPMS), with no attendant risks of quality, damage, scams, etc., so that is the way I will be going.

Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread - I appreciate the help.

As others have chimed in above in this thread and elsewhere: CHECK YOUR SPARE WHEEL, TIRE AND TOOLS TODAY TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE READY FOR USE. The time to find out there's a problem is when you're relaxing at home, not when you're out in the world and others are depending on you.

 

[elcajon]

My lesson from many years and many flat tires:

I hide in the back seat area. Have my wife/gf change into tight mini skirts and wait outside....

 

[elcajon]

My lesson from many years and many flat tires:

I hide in the back seat area. Have my wife/gf change into tight mini skirts and wait outside....

And red high heels..... of course. ( which I pack in the glove box)....