RET2
SILVER Star
Unless one has a dual exhaust then?
First LC flat tire (on the street): lessons learned (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mdog97
- Start date
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FWIW every fall when I coat the undercarraige with Fluid Film, I lower the spare tire, clean up the whole rim, lube up the spare tire winch/carrier, check the inflation of the spare.
On my previous cruiser, a 100 series, the totally neglected spare was totally flat after 10 years, would not hold air due to being corroded through the bead seating area from so much salt and neglect, and the winch was totally frozen from rust. Had I actually ever had to use that spare on the side of the road I would have been totally, totally screwed. Having seen that, I exercise and take care of that whole system on my 200 annually.
On my previous cruiser, a 100 series, the totally neglected spare was totally flat after 10 years, would not hold air due to being corroded through the bead seating area from so much salt and neglect, and the winch was totally frozen from rust. Had I actually ever had to use that spare on the side of the road I would have been totally, totally screwed. Having seen that, I exercise and take care of that whole system on my 200 annually.
RET2
SILVER Star
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I would guess that 99% of the people never check the condition of their spare.
gaijin
GOLD Star
And no air compressor?
I too have had a flat spare and a frozen winch. I do the same check every oil change now.
RET2
SILVER Star
mcgaskins
SILVER Star
I've always been curious to see how this would work in the field, but never seen one in person. Have you used yours before? Did it seem to work as advertised?
I actually appreciate OP’s story. Good reminder that I don’t know how to lower my 5th wheel and it’s been a long time since I’ve used a bottle jack.
I’ve started doing a 5 tire rotation and think it’s worth it. Good to have 5 of the same tires on board, and it takes longer to wear out 5 tires vs 4.
I’d suggest the op start doing the same.
I’ve started doing a 5 tire rotation and think it’s worth it. Good to have 5 of the same tires on board, and it takes longer to wear out 5 tires vs 4.
I’d suggest the op start doing the same.
gaijin
GOLD Star
I've only had to use it once in the field, and that was to get out of a snow bank I slid into front first. Put the X-Jack under the trailer hitch, raised it up with a portable air compressor enough to get traction boards under the rear wheels, and away we went. Worked great. I also use it every time I rotate my tires just to make sure it is still fully functional. Never used the exhaust fill capability because I always travel with an air compressor.
HTH
CharlieS
GOLD Star
We used a similar product (not the same brand) in the fire service for heavy rescue and they can be very effective. We always built a structure of heavy wood cribbing to support the weight once the vehicle was lifted though, since they are just air fancy bags, they could potentially fail catastrophically.
FWIW.. the Hi-lift is not really intended for changing tires/wheels.. Its a recovery tool that lifts.. If its an I4WDTA class they will go over that.
Use your bottle jack to change your wheel, even off road.
A baseplate should be included with every car, sadly they never are. but it usually means the difference between getting it done or being stuck. Plywood is fine, or one of the farm jack or hi-lift base plates as long as the jack fits. (normally they do..)
The X-jack has it's uses.. but I find it easier to just keep a base plate in the truck and use the bottle jack it already has rather than add another piece of gear that only has one use. Just my Opinion
Use your bottle jack to change your wheel, even off road.
A baseplate should be included with every car, sadly they never are. but it usually means the difference between getting it done or being stuck. Plywood is fine, or one of the farm jack or hi-lift base plates as long as the jack fits. (normally they do..)
The X-jack has it's uses.. but I find it easier to just keep a base plate in the truck and use the bottle jack it already has rather than add another piece of gear that only has one use. Just my Opinion
CharlieS
GOLD Star
Yes, the class I’m taking is led by a I4WDTA certified instructor (super knowledgeable guy!).
Back to the idea of running the factory jack with an impact, we need something like this:
Amazon product ASIN B01D316WNQ
But that won't work, the gap between the plates is too narrow. Says it is only 8.8mm wide, but the eye on the OEM jack is about 14mm.
If I get the ambition I may try to make something, just for fun. But this looks like another product for @LandCruiserPhil
Amazon product ASIN B01D316WNQ
But that won't work, the gap between the plates is too narrow. Says it is only 8.8mm wide, but the eye on the OEM jack is about 14mm.
If I get the ambition I may try to make something, just for fun. But this looks like another product for @LandCruiserPhil
- Thread starter
- #34
So, in the interest of trying to keep it technical and to maximize information content for other users, I’ve done some research, some caliper work and some online digging (staying up to crate train a new puppy gives one lots of time to tinker).
There are already some good posts and threads on IH8MUD regarding Toyota OEM bottle jacks, but if you haven’t seen it already this one from 2017 in the 100-Series forum has some useful photos and information, as well as a cameo from @LandCruiserPhil demo’ing and explaining the genesis of his jack adapter (post #10 in particular is quite helpful):
OEM Bottle Jack Trivia??? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/oem-bottle-jack-trivia.1031264/
If you want to know how these mechanical jacks “work”, there are some excellent photos of older model jacks broken down into component parts in this thread in the 40- / 55- Series tech forum (I assume that our newer jacks are basically the same design, although I suppose there could be some changes over the years):
OEM Bottle Jack Restoration - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/oem-bottle-jack-restoration.797567/
There is also some good historical information here in the 40- / 55- Series tech forum, although not as technically relevant to the matter at hand:
Toyota Jacks - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/toyota-jacks.741059/
In my 2018 LC the OEM jack itself is Toyota part number 09111-60122. There are also 09111-60121 and 09111-60120 part numbers I’ve found online, which seem (superficially) to be for the same jack. Fitment is generally listed as all LCs from 2008-2021. It’s made for Toyota by Takeuchi Ind. Co. of Japan, a Toyota group company. MSRP is $194.55 online, street price looks like it’s about $125-$135. Weight is listed at anywhere from 4.5 – 5.5 lbs. online, which seems about right based on my uncalibrated hand. According to the label on my jack, the working load limit is 1800 kg or 3970 lbs., which is pretty stout for such a little, simple device.
I measured the travel of the post on my jack – fully closed/seated, the jack is 8” tall, and fully extended it is 19.375” tall, for a total net “lift” of 11.375”. Assuming you’re jacking on the axle, diff or a control arm (or some other sprung portion of the suspension) that should be plenty of lift to change any tire, regardless of size. You may need to build up a base under the jack for larger wheel-tire combinations running on lifted suspensions, but the 11.375” of potential net lift should be enough to get the wheel off the ground.
For those who care, it took 173 ¼ turns of the loop to extend the post from fully retracted to fully extended…that’s ~0.066” of lift per turn. To get 1” of lift you need to turn the loop 15.2x.
My jack is definitely binding, which confirms why it was so hard to use a few days ago. Based on the parts breakdown shown in the restoration thread, my guess would be that there is some sand or grit or corrosion inside that is interfering with the mesh of the pinion gear with the ring gear base that turns the screw that extends and retracts the post. Another possibility is that there is sand or grit or corrosion on the screw itself that is interfering with the mesh between the screw and the post. Third possibility: some sand or grit or corrosion on the portion of the loop where it rotates within the opening on the body of the jack. My jack looks pristine from the outside, however, so this is all a bit curious.
There are no grease or service points on the jack – it looks like the only way to get inside is to lever off the pressed on painted cap on the top of the post and then start disassembling from the top down. I’m going to try to fix my jack without disassembling it first. My plan is to spray a bunch of Kroil down the sides of the extended post and slosh it around inside the base, draining it back the way it went in, to see if that frees up whatever is going on inside. If that doesn’t work, then it’s on to potentially destructive disassembly, and then maybe purchasing a replacement. I’ll be taking it over to my friend’s shop to use his parts washing bin, so that may take a day or two. (I don’t have a spare wheel and tire at the moment, so there’s no rush to get this sorted yet.)
I’m still keen to find a way to use an electric drill or impact driver to turn the loop and raise/lower the post. I’ll post some of my measurements and ideas for that problem in a separate post in this thread in a moment.
There are already some good posts and threads on IH8MUD regarding Toyota OEM bottle jacks, but if you haven’t seen it already this one from 2017 in the 100-Series forum has some useful photos and information, as well as a cameo from @LandCruiserPhil demo’ing and explaining the genesis of his jack adapter (post #10 in particular is quite helpful):
OEM Bottle Jack Trivia??? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/oem-bottle-jack-trivia.1031264/
If you want to know how these mechanical jacks “work”, there are some excellent photos of older model jacks broken down into component parts in this thread in the 40- / 55- Series tech forum (I assume that our newer jacks are basically the same design, although I suppose there could be some changes over the years):
OEM Bottle Jack Restoration - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/oem-bottle-jack-restoration.797567/
There is also some good historical information here in the 40- / 55- Series tech forum, although not as technically relevant to the matter at hand:
Toyota Jacks - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/toyota-jacks.741059/
In my 2018 LC the OEM jack itself is Toyota part number 09111-60122. There are also 09111-60121 and 09111-60120 part numbers I’ve found online, which seem (superficially) to be for the same jack. Fitment is generally listed as all LCs from 2008-2021. It’s made for Toyota by Takeuchi Ind. Co. of Japan, a Toyota group company. MSRP is $194.55 online, street price looks like it’s about $125-$135. Weight is listed at anywhere from 4.5 – 5.5 lbs. online, which seems about right based on my uncalibrated hand. According to the label on my jack, the working load limit is 1800 kg or 3970 lbs., which is pretty stout for such a little, simple device.
I measured the travel of the post on my jack – fully closed/seated, the jack is 8” tall, and fully extended it is 19.375” tall, for a total net “lift” of 11.375”. Assuming you’re jacking on the axle, diff or a control arm (or some other sprung portion of the suspension) that should be plenty of lift to change any tire, regardless of size. You may need to build up a base under the jack for larger wheel-tire combinations running on lifted suspensions, but the 11.375” of potential net lift should be enough to get the wheel off the ground.
For those who care, it took 173 ¼ turns of the loop to extend the post from fully retracted to fully extended…that’s ~0.066” of lift per turn. To get 1” of lift you need to turn the loop 15.2x.
My jack is definitely binding, which confirms why it was so hard to use a few days ago. Based on the parts breakdown shown in the restoration thread, my guess would be that there is some sand or grit or corrosion inside that is interfering with the mesh of the pinion gear with the ring gear base that turns the screw that extends and retracts the post. Another possibility is that there is sand or grit or corrosion on the screw itself that is interfering with the mesh between the screw and the post. Third possibility: some sand or grit or corrosion on the portion of the loop where it rotates within the opening on the body of the jack. My jack looks pristine from the outside, however, so this is all a bit curious.
There are no grease or service points on the jack – it looks like the only way to get inside is to lever off the pressed on painted cap on the top of the post and then start disassembling from the top down. I’m going to try to fix my jack without disassembling it first. My plan is to spray a bunch of Kroil down the sides of the extended post and slosh it around inside the base, draining it back the way it went in, to see if that frees up whatever is going on inside. If that doesn’t work, then it’s on to potentially destructive disassembly, and then maybe purchasing a replacement. I’ll be taking it over to my friend’s shop to use his parts washing bin, so that may take a day or two. (I don’t have a spare wheel and tire at the moment, so there’s no rush to get this sorted yet.)
I’m still keen to find a way to use an electric drill or impact driver to turn the loop and raise/lower the post. I’ll post some of my measurements and ideas for that problem in a separate post in this thread in a moment.
- Thread starter
- #35
Photos of the mortally wounded Michelin, for those interested
- Thread starter
- #36
I measured the dimensions of the loop portion of the OEM jack (my name for the female part of the jack that receives the hook end of the multi-part handle) – those dimensions are shown in the attached photo. Roughly speaking, the width ranges from 0.95 – 0.98”, the thickness ranges from 0.52 – 0.58”, and the hole measures about 0.52 – 0.54” across.
I also measured the dimensions of the hook itself, and of the female end of that segment of the multi-part handle. The hook diameter is roughly 0.48 – 0.50”, and the female opening on the end of that piece of the multi-part handle is approximately 0.44” x 0.44”.
That last data point would imply that a 3/8” square drive would -almost- fit, as it measures about 0.37” x 0.37”. If you could get it to mate securely, you could use a battery operated drill or impact driver (with or without an extension) and a 3/8” square drive tip to turn the hook segment from the OEM tool kit. However, my test with a 3/8” square drive bit showed that it was a bit too loose of a fit, creating the risk that you might spin the square drive in the female end of the factory hook segment, destroying that end and rendering it useless.
Instead, I think an appropriately sized ½” drive “universal socket” might just do the trick. This one from McMaster-Carr has 54 pins and has the ability to receive 7/16” – 1¼” (0.4375” – 1.2500”) square, hex, 8-point fastener heads, so I would think that it could receive and grip/turn the 0.5” x 0.9” (external dimensions) loop on the jack.
McMaster-Carr - https://www.mcmaster.com/6021A11/
Add an appropriate length extension and your electric driver of choice and it just might work. I’ll be purchasing one of these as soon as I see one locally, and will report back on whether or not it works.
I also measured the dimensions of the hook itself, and of the female end of that segment of the multi-part handle. The hook diameter is roughly 0.48 – 0.50”, and the female opening on the end of that piece of the multi-part handle is approximately 0.44” x 0.44”.
That last data point would imply that a 3/8” square drive would -almost- fit, as it measures about 0.37” x 0.37”. If you could get it to mate securely, you could use a battery operated drill or impact driver (with or without an extension) and a 3/8” square drive tip to turn the hook segment from the OEM tool kit. However, my test with a 3/8” square drive bit showed that it was a bit too loose of a fit, creating the risk that you might spin the square drive in the female end of the factory hook segment, destroying that end and rendering it useless.
Instead, I think an appropriately sized ½” drive “universal socket” might just do the trick. This one from McMaster-Carr has 54 pins and has the ability to receive 7/16” – 1¼” (0.4375” – 1.2500”) square, hex, 8-point fastener heads, so I would think that it could receive and grip/turn the 0.5” x 0.9” (external dimensions) loop on the jack.
McMaster-Carr - https://www.mcmaster.com/6021A11/
Add an appropriate length extension and your electric driver of choice and it just might work. I’ll be purchasing one of these as soon as I see one locally, and will report back on whether or not it works.
RET2
SILVER Star
I would say mortally wounded is an understatement, destroyed would perhaps be more accurate?
OMG, it's a Gator Grip socket. Don't buy from McM, you can get them everywhere, like here:
Amazon product ASIN B00008K2TF
I bet even Harbor Fright sells them. Awful tool. Someone gave me one years ago, I used it once and tossed it into the trash.
RET2
SILVER Star
Not to be overly simplistic but if one had a spare terminal piece they could weld a suitable nut to the end thereby allowing a standard socket to be used? By using a spare piece the original caveman method is still available if self flagellation is still desired.
If you want to keep the hook part of the system, I would try to get another one from a junkyard, then just weld a 1/2"-3/8" drive adapter into the square end. Like this:
Or you can just order another hook part from the toolkit, it's only about ~$12 (P/N 09115-35110)
Or you can just order another hook part from the toolkit, it's only about ~$12 (P/N 09115-35110)
